Discuss or Comments about Child, Adult, Can't Tell Thread

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

People discussing borederline cases is good because it will allow the owners of those avatars to make informed decisions going forward if they want to ensure they're percieved the way they intended. 

I suspect 'borderline,' cases, by their very nature will make up only a small fraction of AR's and even less bans (if anyone is banned at all). 

If the thread has proven anything though, people can tell when it matters most. 

 

I actually think all this discussion has made people more paranoid. We have no idea what LL deems as looking under age. It may be totally different than what everyone is perceiving in that thread.  Then what? Someone gets an AR and try's to refer to the post where all of us said they looked adult? Good luck with that.

Maybe we should all go into the thread with the naked pictures and tag the ones we think are under age.  I wonder how many of those there are or maybe people really DO know what looks under age after all.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I could've told you so a week or so ago, but I'm just here mindin' my business, chatting about fashion, and enjoying the photo thread. 😄

Yeah, I just can't abide nonsense sometimes.  I should do better and just ignore it.  Imma try real hard, I promise!

[Chery Amore]

12 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Here is the deal. LL doesn't want everyone to start ARing people they think look under 18. They really only want the very egregious cases reported.  Where it is OBVIOUS that they are doing something wrong, in a place they shouldn't be.  Not just because they are standing in the corner looking maybe 16 or 19.

If your avatar is on the edge and you KNOW you are not doing anything wrong then simply do not worry about it.  

For those of you that are planning on ARing edge cases, think before you do. LL doesn't want YOU to be the one deciding. That's why they said THEY will take everything into consideration. We don't have to figure it out because what we think may be or probably is totally different than what LL thinks and they are not telling us.

So while this is a fun thread to throw around opinions, it has no bearing whatsoever in getting AR'd and banned from SL.

And that's what we are doing throwing around opinions. Personally I've never AR'd an edge case in the past. I doubt I would now unless I saw them doing the dirty and their profile stated underage.  I would however ask them to leave if I were policing an adult venue... just as I've done in the past.

People that present on the edge have more to worry about if they are getting up to no good in IM if someone does decide to AR them though.  Really though if they aren't breaking rules they have nothing to worry about if they are on the edge but say they aren't and their IM's support that.

Those pictures Rowan posted I see at least 4 "teens" there that don't look much different than in the picture thread this one was in response too... that's why we like to throw around opinions.  

[Chery Amore]

It is funny to see people have to clamor about though. I'm right, I'm right..... I'm riggggght.. Listen to me everyone! Hehe. I got popcorn.

[Codex Alpha]

18 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

I actually think all this discussion has made people more paranoid. We have no idea what LL deems as looking under age. It may be totally different than what everyone is perceiving in that thread.  Then what? Someone gets an AR and try's to refer to the post where all of us said they looked adult? Good luck with that.

Maybe we should all go into the thread with the naked pictures and tag the ones we think are under age.  I wonder how many of those there are or maybe people really DO know what looks under age after all.

But we do.

13 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

It is funny to see people have to clamor about though. I'm right, I'm right..... I'm riggggght.. Listen to me everyone! Hehe. I got popcorn.

No, it's not about who is right or not, it's how LL has defined it. They're not going to define it anymore as they have done so enough already.

The decision to update the child avatar policy was not made lightly. It involved weeks of meticulous discussion and coordination across various departments at Linden Lab

Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves.

In some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says...").

 

Edited May 14 by Codex Alpha

[Chery Amore]

1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said:

But we do.

No, it's not about who is right or not, it's how LL has defined it. They're not going to define it anymore as they have done so enough already.

The decision to update the child avatar policy was not made lightly. It involved weeks of meticulous discussion and coordination across various departments at Linden Lab

Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves.

In some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says...").

 

 

And... so you should just not discuss it anymore? You can't police others. There's a little X right there to log out.

 I'm not disagreeing with anything the Linden's have stated by the way.  We are discussing the pictures in the other thread. 

Don't let us bother to offend your sensibilities..

[Codex Alpha]

The only offense here is people taking offense to the truth.

[Chery Amore]

Just now, Codex Alpha said:

The only offense here is people taking offense to the truth.

Carry on then... 

[Kathlen Onyx]

There is so much disagreements in this and most threads yet you trust the little reactions you are getting on photos? Maybe someone said you looked under age cause they don't like you or what you post? Just food for thought.  I'd never take anyone's word here on my avatar looks in relation to the TOS.

[Dorientje Woller]

1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Maybe someone said you looked under age cause they don't like you or what you post?

That's a point I have thought about too. That some might getting AR'd because someone don't like them or by somebody that has been rejected.

[Kathlen Onyx]

Just now, Dorientje Woller said:

That's a point I have thought about too. That some might getting AR'd because someone don't like them or by somebody that has been rejected.

Of course that will happen. That is something you are never going to stop whether you look 16 or 80.  There is no way to stop someone from submitting an AR on you.

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

And that's what we are doing throwing around opinions. Personally I've never AR'd an edge case in the past. I doubt I would now unless I saw them doing the dirty and their profile stated underage.  I would however ask them to leave if I were policing an adult venue... just as I've done in the past.

People that present on the edge have more to worry about if they are getting up to no good in IM if someone does decide to AR them though.  Really though if they aren't breaking rules they have nothing to worry about if they are on the edge but say they aren't and their IM's support that.

Those pictures Rowan posted I see at least 4 "teens" there that don't look much different than in the picture thread this one was in response too... that's why we like to throw around opinions.  

The people who see and understand are the ones asking about their own avatar.  What some people claim  "we all.should know!  Read the ToS" don't seem to grasp is...that whole line he keeps pasting?  We've all read the dang thing many times, ffs.  

In some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says...").

If it's just one such as childlike facial features OR size OR clothing, what might be the deciding factor with their own avatar?  Is my face adult enough to  wear pigtail even though I'm small breasted?  My face is kind of youthful looking so maybe not this particular dress AND hair?   Is it one of those objective features, 2 or 3 that LL will use to decide?  Can I be shorter and slimmer but not be considered a child even if I wear hair ribbons and call my boyfriend Daddy?

In my experience, most people do want to follow the rules.  The ones who don't won't care what anyone thinks anyway.  

 

 

[MissSweetViolet]

1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

To everyone who has looked at the other thread related to this one and has voted on what looks underage the question should be:

What made you decide an avatar looked underage? Clothing? Environment? Body proportions? Face? Hair? Something else? 

For me it's the face and overall proportions I tend to focus on first. The way the eyes are especially and body proportion in relation to head/arms/legs/etc. I've had to much interest in various fashion styles to let clothing come into play. I don't think much about environment ether, since there are many reasons an avatar could be where they are.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

I actually think all this discussion has made people more paranoid. We have no idea what LL deems as looking under age. It may be totally different than what everyone is perceiving in that thread.  Then what? Someone gets an AR and try's to refer to the post where all of us said they looked adult? Good luck with that.

Maybe we should all go into the thread with the naked pictures and tag the ones we think are under age.  I wonder how many of those there are or maybe people really DO know what looks under age after all.

New rules always make people feel more paranoid until they understand how they will really be enforced. I don't think LL is going to want to ban that many "edge case" accounts.

[Blush Bravin]

The whole point of the thread I started was NOT what LL thought qualified as a child or adult. The POINT was how do others in SL perceive your age. Plain and simple.

When you keep responding to someone who plainly doesn't get and apparently no matter how many times it's explained refuses to understand the point of the thread, you're just taking the bait.

This is about the community deciding how they see others .. and not what LL thinks!!!!!!!!

*refrains from screaming at her monitor, barely*

[Blush Bravin]

4 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

To everyone who has looked at the other thread related to this one and has voted on what looks underage the question should be:

What made you decide an avatar looked underage? Clothing? Environment? Body proportions? Face? Hair? Something else? 

Clothing is not that important to me. I would not change my mind on an obvious underage avatar or obvious adult avatar if they wore clothing of the opposite age. However, for an edge case, the choice of clothing might indicate to me which side of 18 they are trying to be. I suppose a majority of those reported would be because they lack clothing.

Environment isn't a factor in the examples I've seen but they would be important to LL.

Body proportions are a big factor. I look at the height in terms of how many head sizes.  Even if they are the same height, a person who is only 5 heads high looks more childlike than a person who is 7 heads high. There are also all the proportion rules you see in artbooks and biology courses that tell us how to determine maturity. 

The face and facial proportions are also very important. Humans are keenly aware of facial features as they are the best way to identify others. There is also a whole set of proportion rules on faces to tell the difference in age. 

Hair is like clothing. It's not that important but it helps when looking at an edge case.

Everything needs to be taken into account. An obvious  little boy with a beard is still going to be thought of as a little boy. A weird boy. A little girl with a beard will be thought of as a little boy, never questioned and not weird at all. 

Bolding in quote is my emphasis.

I think this brings up a very good point. I have admitted that I have biases and that I make judgements based on my own experiences. I'm having to adjust some of my preconceived views on age in SL. So questioning yourself and reevaluating how you come to the conclusion of the age of someone's avatar may be more based on your bias rather than their avatar.

[Roxy Couturier]

2 hours ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

There is so much disagreements in this and most threads yet you trust the little reactions you are getting on photos? Maybe someone said you looked under age cause they don't like you or what you post? Just food for thought.  I'd never take anyone's word here on my avatar looks in relation to the TOS.

I love everyone equally.

Some I love tougher than others...

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yeah, I just can't abide nonsense sometimes.  I should do better and just ignore it.  Imma try real hard, I promise!

Me, committing nonsense:

 

[Blush Bravin]

2 hours ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

There is so much disagreements in this and most threads yet you trust the little reactions you are getting on photos? Maybe someone said you looked under age cause they don't like you or what you post? Just food for thought.  I'd never take anyone's word here on my avatar looks in relation to the TOS.

I have considered that. So I'll admit I have also looked to see how they voted on others. And for the most part, I've been able to make a determination based on patterns. Not a biggie anyway in my book.  

[Chery Amore]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Me, committing nonsense:

 

You're much more likeable despite the nonsense!

[Love Zhaoying]

It is interesting and somewhat surprising to see who is most..passionate about the changes. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

You're much more likeable despite the nonsense!

Comments like that give me life!

❤️

 

[brodiac90]

40 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It is interesting and somewhat surprising to see who is most..passionate about the changes. 

Why, what were your preconcieved notions? 

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

51 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It is interesting and somewhat surprising to see who is most..passionate about the changes. 

Why, what were your preconcieved notions? 

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that I had any.

However, if I try to intuit what you're asking, I'm surprised that some seem very passionate about how others perceive their avatar age, and yet also in many (but not all by any means) cases are concerned that their avatar may not "pass a test" by others.

It's a bit paradoxical. As if:

1. They believe that their avatar is X age and take great affront if someone judges their avatar differently. (Yet they asked.)

2. In some cases, they greatly despise the rule change, but do not admit it may be due to how they may need to change their own avatar.

3. In some cases, they have a great fear of being AR'd for their avatar age, and don't trust Governance to make the right call.

All the defensiveness just seems to betray a level of personal doubt, overridden by a steadfast insistence on "being right".

Put simply, if you don't care what we think, why get so defensive / mad about it?

If you're so concerned about Governance, were you really intentionally portraying as an "edge case" all along, hoping never to get called out for it?

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

The whole point of the thread I started was NOT what LL thought qualified as a child or adult. The POINT was how do others in SL perceive your age. Plain and simple.

When you keep responding to someone who plainly doesn't get and apparently no matter how many times it's explained refuses to understand the point of the thread, you're just taking the bait.

This is about the community deciding how they see others .. and not what LL thinks!!!!!!!!

*refrains from screaming at her monitor, barely*

Well I usually just ask, if I don't entirely know.