So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Alwin Alcott]

31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I hope if they're found in violation it would be treated less harshly via the TOS than would a much older person in sexual contact with a child or teen.

adults play teen, should be less punished as adults play adult as teen ... sure.
It's the same categorie ; both are not allowed

Edited May 8 by Alwin Alcott

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

15 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

17 minutes ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

Of course they can roleplay being teenagers in love. They just can't roleplay being teenagers in THE SAME bed - and nor should they.

Fixed that for you.

The question then becomes, if they're in separate beds are they allowed to "roleplay" with themselves as long as they don't talk about it? 😅

They should not. Blindness is the concern here.

[Persephone Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

The question then becomes, if they're in separate beds are they allowed to "roleplay" with themselves as long as they don't talk about it? 😅

Teens being on the phone with each other while "roleplaying" with themselves would likely be a violation of the TOS.

[ErwinVonVlotho]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Other than breaking the TOS why shouldn't they?

Other than breaking the TOS, nothing is relevant.

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

And if discovered do you believe the penalty should be less severe than the scenario of an older person being sexual with a child/teenager?

No, because it's still adults pretending to be children and having sex on Second Life, and LL do not want a scandal about that. Penalties will be given depending on how serious a threat the behaviour poses to the platform, not on how cute the RP was.

[ErwinVonVlotho]

13 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I think, just for clarity's sake, it's better if LL notes in the TOS or FAQ if the modesty rules are only for the under 12 crowd or includes the 13+, as well. I see no reason why that can't be made crystal clear for us.

 

They're for anyone who looks under 18. That's perfectly clear.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

The question then becomes, if they're in separate beds are they allowed to "roleplay" with themselves as long as they don't talk about it? 😅

Nope, not only are they still doing sexual stuff, they are in proximity to other doing sexual stuff, and quite possibly nude too, that's a Triple AR hat-trick!

Extra bonus permaban!

[Rolig Loon]

Just now, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I suspect there may be some people in-world who have no idea that the new TOS changes may even apply to them in the perceptions of other residents.

In fact, most of the discussion in this looooong thread has been among about twenty people. Most people in SL don't come to the forums at all. They don't have any idea what people have been talking about here. (Or care, probably)

[Codex Alpha]

46 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

If the ToS is talking about child avatars and someone brings up something they consider child or childish then it's still on topic to debate about what's in the tos and what makes a child avatar, so hairstyle would be apart of that.

What I am saying is that they should leave hairstyles out of this because adult women wear these hairstyles and that outfits are not complete without that one hairstyle that makes it lovely. And, sometimes that hairstyle can be pigtails, or ponytails.

Yes, and my point being, that accessories, clothing, teddybears and hairstyles, though not on their own, but as part of the presentation, can lower or raise a perceived age. I'm surprised too why people want to argue so hard about what is generally obvious, but people here love to argue the exception, not only with fellow users, but LL itself.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Nope, not only are they still doing sexual stuff, they are in proximity to other doing sexual stuff, and quite possibly nude too, that's a Triple AR hat-trick!

Extra bonus permaban!

Well best of luck to the governance team member that tries to sort through the (complete lack of) evidence for that AR I guess?

[Persephone Emerald]

20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need to emphasize again why AP is so offensive -- it's not because 'ewww it makes me feel icky'...it's because in such instances we are witnessing a more powerful person taking advantage of someone with less power.

Abuse of power.

Even if the "child avatar" is a vampire, sexual RP with it is still against the TOS. It's not just about a perceived virtual abuse of power.

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said:

In fact, most of the discussion in this looooong thread has been among about twenty people. Most people in SL don't come to the forums at all. They don't have any idea what people have been talking about here. (Or care, probably)

if they didn't read the TOS or official announcements there waits a unpleasant surprise for them soon. Hope their groups warn the involved players.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Yes, and my point being, that accessories, clothing, teddybears and hairstyles, though not on their own, but as part of the presentation, can lower or raise a perceived age. I'm surprised too why people want to argue so hard about what is generally obvious, but people here love to argue the exception, not only with fellow users, but LL itself.

We are roleplaying pre-law students on the forum.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

2 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

In fact, most of the discussion in this looooong thread has been among about twenty people. Most people in SL don't come to the forums at all. They don't have any idea what people have been talking about here. (Or care, probably)

I have heard from a couple of friends who don't post on the forums about their concerns and have mentioned to a few others who have short avatars and are into the whole kawaii fashion thing about the changes to TOS (the latter had no idea about the changes and what they might mean for them personally).

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Well best of luck to the governance team member that tries to sort through the (complete lack of) evidence for that AR I guess?

inworld AR's have a screenshot, false reports on these serious accusations should be turned on the reporter when it's intentional harming people.

[Rolig Loon]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

if they didn't read the TOS or official announcements there waits a unpleasant surprise for them soon. Hope their groups warn the involved players.

Maybe not, Alwin. If I stand back and look at SL as a whole, I suspect that these changes won't make any difference at all to 90% ( a made up percentage ) of residents. It will affect the other 10% -- perhaps quite a bit -- but most people won't even notice.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need to emphasize again why AP is so offensive -- it's not because 'ewww it makes me feel icky'...it's because in such instances we are witnessing a more powerful person taking advantage of someone with less power.

Abuse of power.

Even if the "child avatar" is a vampire, sexual RP with it is still against the TOS. It's not just about a perceived virtual abuse of power.

Well I more expressed this due to some earlier comments in this thread.  It appeared some didn't really understand why we, as a society, find sexual abuse of minors so abhorrent. Many just go 'ewwww' without understanding why our society has these rules in the first place, and why SL must  now comply with current societal norms via the law.

[Sammy Huntsman]

11 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I joked many pages back about hentai sims with anime characters, but this is a real thing in SL. The people who are into that are going to have to take a hard look at whether that kind of RP is worth the risk of losing their accounts.

I mean I don't agree with this sentiment, and I mean you and I will look at it differently. But unless actually stated by the person or even the person who wrote the anime. Then generally speaking, they are an adult, partaking in adult activities. Now do I like this medium of Anime or Manga, no. But I am certainly not gonna assume that they look like children. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Playing a child, a teen or an anime character is not my thing, but it is for many people. My alt Alycia sometimes dresses as a doll, but I'm not going to put her in an adult situation or setting while wearing a child-like doll avatar. 

I joked many pages back about hentai sims with anime characters, but this is a real thing in SL. The people who are into that are going to have to take a hard look at whether that kind of RP is worth the risk of losing their accounts. 

Yep, same. I make cute (and maybe terrifying...hmm, gotta add that to the list) doll avatars from time to time, but given the new rules about adult land, I'd never take them out on the town. I'll save them for the photo studio, which is what they're for to begin with.

 

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

To me, personally, all this looks like is "I hate slim women" "I hate short people." 

They see her face and she's pretty but she is 5'3" so they A.R. her and try to get her account banned.

This is what it just looks like to me and that is some of the most f-ed up stuff.

Granted we're at 250 pages in this monster thread, so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed it, but who said or implied they hate short slim people? I've seen some claim to hate child avatars, but I assume they meant the ones who are like 5 years old and spam chat with that obnoxious gesture text (I may or may not be guilty of blocking one or two of those myself - I was trying to shop for food and they were distracting me).

[Alwin Alcott]

Just now, Rolig Loon said:

Maybe not, Alwin. If I stand back and look at SL as a whole, I suspect that these changes won't make any difference at all to 90% ( a made up percentage ) of residents. It will affect the other 10% -- perhaps quite a bit -- but most people won't even notice.

is should have added a better explanation at "their and involved" for what i meant. ty  for the addition

[Persephone Emerald]

14 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

We're getting into an area that we seem to get fairly often on the forums: "Technically, it says so and so isn't allowed, but what if I do it under a whatzit?"

NOBODY IS EVER GOING TO SAY, "OH, THAT'S OKAY."

Because it's setting a precedent. Are you going to get in trouble by doing it under a whatzit? It would not shock me if you didn't. But people won't say, "That's okay," because it's telling you how to do what you're not technically supposed to be doing.

Is a whatzit like a blanket in Central Park?

[Starberry Passion]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Yep, same. I make cute (and maybe terrifying...hmm, gotta add that to the list) doll avatars from time to time, but given the new rules about adult land, I'd never take them out on the town. I'll save them for the photo studio, which is what they're for to begin with.

 

Granted we're at 250 pages in this monster thread, so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed it, but who said or implied they hate short slim people? I've seen some claim to hate child avatars, but I assume they meant the ones who are like 5 years old and spam chat with that obnoxious gesture text (I may or may not be guilty of blocking one or two of those myself - I was trying to shop for food and they were distracting me).

I am saying that this is how this looks to me. Everything that can potentially happen to someone who is just one of these bodies and are just slim, petite, short, don't have big breasts etc. "Someone thinks someone looks like a teen so they are at risk of losing their account." and the "I'm 18 years old" and then people taking photos discluding their info in their profile to prove they are a child with photos.

This looks like that to me.

[Istelathis]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I've seen some claim to hate child avatars, but I assume they meant the ones who are like 5 years old and spam chat with that obnoxious gesture text

SL is punting left and right now.

 

/me ducks out of thread again

[Zalificent Corvinus]

19 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Well best of luck to the governance team member that tries to sort through the (complete lack of) evidence for that AR I guess?

True story, and a sad one.

One day in SL, 20 odd people were in a club, enjoying the DJ's set, when a Concerned Vigilante Citizen Crusader walked along one of the LLDWP's strips of tarmac textured prim waste, that some call "roads".

He spots 20 odd green dots in the sky on the region next door, and deciids to do his part to make SL better by AR'ing all the "filthy bots.

Teleporting into the club, he's horrified to find actual people having a good time, so he AR's them all anyway.

Then he AR's the DJ for using a no-lose sploder to GIVE AWAY THEIR OWN MONEY to the audience.

He get's punted by the club owner.

Then one of the audience asks the DJ in an IM if they will be ok after being AR'd for having a no lose sploder.

The DJ then did something really stupid.

"Sure, II sspoke to MadeUp Linden and he said they don't ban you for a sploder"

 

Thing is, an AR had been filed, and that means somebody WILL check the chat and IM logs for the accused.

"Impersonating an LL Staff member", instant permaban for the DJ, and their several alts.

Gone, no coming back from that ever.

 

So, no to @Luna Bliss or anyone else thinking it's "safe" to engage in illegal activity in an IM. If Governance has ANY reason to check you, say some fool AR's you for standing still for 30 mins, obviously a "filthy bot", they will see that in the logs and never mind how minor your reported offence was, your accounts are toast.

 

Edited May 8 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

but who said or implied they hate short slim people?

No one said it that I can recall.  It's an assumption.  I dislike avatars who are of questionable age in adult sex regions.  Anywhere else, I couldn't care less.    Not because of their height or shape but usually the accompanying accessories.  Taken together, while some may think it's just cute, it does appear to many to be too close to being underage.   Short and slim is perfectly fine and I see it all the time.  Not an issue.  Put a face that appears ambiguous as to age, braces, that AO that makes them look like a shy child hiding behind mommy's back?  Hmm

[Theresa Tennyson]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

We are roleplaying pre-law students on the forum.

And John Houseman is telling us we all FAAAYYYLLLLL.....