Resiliency In Second Life

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Quote: "Psychological resilience is the ability to cope mentally and emotionally with a crisis, or to return to pre-crisis status quickly.[1]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_resilience

And...to "emotionally cope with a crisis" means you face your feelings!  Dear God.

[Love Zhaoying]

The term was popularized by someone who did a 40-year research study..on Hawaiian children.

"The term was popularized in the 1970s and 1980s by psychologist Emmy Werner as she conducted a forty-year-long study of a cohort of Hawaiian children who came from low socioeconomic status backgrounds.[2]"

https://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN9780937431030

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Ehhhhhh, kinda sorta. It's a very complicated term, and one I'm not overly fond of myself. I also don't think it'd apply very well to Second Life, but overall themes such as dealing with stress and minor annoyances and handling challenging situations would. I just find SL to lack many of those, thankfully.

I'm digging down to the bottom of what the word supposedly "means", since the OP keeps changing what it means in the context of this thread.

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

44 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

We eventually overcome, through facing our pain, and learn to live again

BS.

yes, Love....we face the pain.  And to Arielle's point, yes, we deal with suffering.  Hopefully many here just chill in SL and dance/whatnot, and this enhances their SL/RL.. but I've certainly dealt with people in SL (including myself) who encountered difficult situations and had to deal with the pain of it in order to move on.  It's Psych 101 -- you don't move on from your pain unless you face it/feel it.

Edited April 19 by Luna Bliss

[Persephone Emerald]

50 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well that article is just silly. Nobody runs around with a flag labeled 'resilient' and thinks everyone has to constantly be strong. That would be some societal meme and honestly I don't see that everywhere except with macho men who claim to be super tough.
Being resilient doesn't mean you can't express pain.  Total distortion of the concept.  In fact, the ability to feel your emotions and deal with them is a sign of resilience.

I love it if a friend notices I went through a difficult time and tells me I really dealt well with that!
I think it depends on the context as to whether I'd like someone telling me I'm resilient though.  The person matters...how close I am to them...whether I'm okay with them noticing my inner life.

I'm not criticizing anyone who wants to choose whether they accept another using that name when speaking to them though -- I'm criticizing the author of that article and how she distorts.

Maybe *you* don't experience people around you expecting you to be strong or tough, but you're a white woman living in the modern United States. 

Men have long been expected to be tough  and to not express vulnerable emotions (at least in western culture). They're told to not be a sissy, to not cry "like a girl", to suck it up, show some balls, and "be a man". That poem by Kipling emphases just this kind of "masculine" resilience and psychological strength. It wasn't aimed at women. It doesn't suggest that it's ok to feel vulnerable or to cry sometimes. It doesn't suggest ways to develop psychological resilience. It just says that if a man doesn't have this, then he's not a real man.

People of color, especially black people and immigrants, have also long been expected to be tough and not to express emotional or psychological vulnerability. Just look at television and movies. How many times have you seen a person of color being shown as crying vs. a white woman? Look at our music too. Diana Ross sang "I Will Survive". Yet it's not unusual to hear songs where a white woman is basically crying about how some guy broke her heart.

Historically, white women have also been expected to be tough and resilient at times too - for instance pioneer women - but we've also had this cultural idea of being the "weaker sex", biologically prone to fainting, hysterics, and crying spells.

Real Life is not an even playing field.

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Quote: "Psychological resilience is the ability to cope mentally and emotionally with a crisis, or to return to pre-crisis status quickly.[1]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_resilience

That was kind of the point of my post.  I had no choice but to push through the issues I was faced with.  I coped very badly, IMO, but what else was I to do?  I feel no stronger or resilient than I did before.  I also was not able to "return to pre-crisis status" until this month.  No amount of prayer or reflection or time spent doing something else, was going to make going through it any easier or less stressful.  I'd put out one fire and have another to put out.  

ANY stress or unpleasantness encountered in SL pales in comparison.  It's a non-issue.  I don't HAVE to be resilient at all.  I can log.out and all of it is over.  It affects my actual RL in no way.   I HAD to deal with the RL.issues.  Even though I enjoy many things in SL, doing them did not make what I was going through in RL any easier.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Men have long been expected to be tough  and to not express vulnerable emotions (at least in western culture). They're told to not be a sissy, to not cry "like a girl", to suck it up, show some balls, and "be a man". That poem by Kipling emphases just this kind of "masculine" resilience and psychological strength. It wasn't aimed at women. It doesn't suggest that it's ok to feel vulnerable or to cry sometimes. It doesn't suggest ways to develop psychological resilience. It just says that if a man doesn't have this, then he's not a real man.

And that poem catalyzed this dilemma we're discussing....this bifurcation when we consider 'strength'...which is...what does 'strong' actually mean in our world?  What does 'coping'  with life actually mean? And most important, how does SL play into it...does SL help us sort it all out via its many activities and experiences?

[Love Zhaoying]

21 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I also was not able to "return to pre-crisis status" until this month. 

To me, the insult of the definition I quoted is where it emphasizes returning to pre-crisis status "quickly".

We don't measure some kinds of healing in "time". 

To me, if the original research on "resilience" focused on "getting better fast", that smacks of "get the workers back on the job", etc.

People heal when they heal.

Sometimes you don't completely heal. That's OK - more than OK. It is part of being human.

 

Edited April 19 by Love Zhaoying

[Luna Bliss]

I need to move on....stuffs to do...and I've said all I can say.

If it can't be comprehended (by many anyway) that it's good to overcome challenges in any world, to honor ourselves when we manage to do so, I don't know what else I can say....

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

2023 was one of the most difficult and challenging times I've ever endured.  I managed to make it through because, at times, I wasn't resilient.  I sat down and cried and hit things.  I vented my feelings of frustration and anger to my sisters who just listened.   That's all I needed.  To release some.pressure.  No words of wisdom, no anecdotes about how they deal with things.  Just listening.  I cried and whined.  

Do I feel more.resilient?  Not especially.  I'm sure life may throw me another situation I'll have to muddle.through and you know what?  I'll probably cry.and whine about that, too.  Why shouldn't I?  Life is hard.  No.one has to take all the crap life throws you will a smile on their face and a sunny disposition.  Eff that!  Scream, cry, throw.things if that's what helps.you get through.  

To keep it on point concerning SL...Chanting and dancing in SL?  Even for SL stresses, whatever the hell those might be, it's silly.  Log.out, scream, rant, take.a walk.  

Well said! I'm sorry you had such a rough year.

One thing that chaps my royal hide about this insistence on "facing" things, "getting over" things, "returning to a pre-crisis state" is:  It is completely de-humanizing.  It puts measurements, guidelines, goalposts, etc. on the simple human act of dealing with life.  "What can we do to help you get better?" "Nothing, let me deal with it on my own terms."

An example where we don't "force" resilience on people?  Grief.  And even then, there's "stages", "steps", and "plateaus", etc.  It's all, in Luna's own words, "silly".  When you try to put this "actual" meaning of "resilience" in terms of Second Life, it's VERY silly.

 

Edited April 19 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need to move on....stuffs to do...and I've said all I can say.

If it can't be comprehended (by many anyway) that it's good to overcome challenges in any world, to honor ourselves when we manage to do so, I don't know what else I can say....

You've given us 2 options:

1) If we ask questions, then we must be attacking you.

2) If we disagree and discuss, then we must not be comprehending.

I don't know, which personality trait does that sound like?

 

[Ineffable Mote]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

BS.

They can use it to write great literature, and have it twisted around into being something else. I say that being aware of Kipling's upbringings(parents/guardians behavior both..not to open this can of worms here, but I'll leave an informational link below just to point the can out). Resilience used as a coping mechanism seems no less apt for him, along with his poem If specifically (to keep this on topic, + many use SL for this too as has already been pointed out), and not sure how much of it Kipling himself ever faced up to in his own life (he was a perceptive guy, but I haven't read enough of his works).

https://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.429327.7cf88f5c13

(I'll add that psychologists aren't entirely useless)

Edited April 19 by Ineffable Mote

[Dafadilia Wayfarer]

I never took people pointing out the negative of resilience as not understanding, but just trying to start a discussion by covering all sides of a topic. Including why anyone would need exercises to build a resilience to things they experience in their second life.

That is what confused me the most. The moment I thought I could finally understand enough to respond, all thoughts expressed that weren't exactly conforming or coinciding to a certain way of thinking would get shut down. That isn't a discussion of the topic at hand in my opinion.

Of course just how I see it. And we all know about opinions.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Dafadilia Wayfarer said:

I never took people pointing out the negative of resilience as not understanding, but just trying to start a discussion by covering all sides of a topic. Including why anyone would need exercises to build a resilience to things they experience in their second life.

That is what confused me the most. The moment I thought I could finally understand enough to respond, all thoughts expressed that weren't exactly conforming or coinciding to a certain way of thinking would get shut down. That isn't a discussion of the topic at hand in my opinion.

Of course just how I see it. And we all know about opinions.

At some point, the topic was changed again so it was about using SL for recovery from RL stress, not SL stress. So, it's been a moving target. I only came back because the ageism, etc. stirred me.

Edited April 19 by Love Zhaoying

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

Resiliency might be built by still being in a standing position when a hardship is over, but just because you're still standing doesn't mean your're stronger or any better off.  

I've weathered bad times terribly. Whining,  crying, and throwing things would be considered mild.  Those hard times came and went, but I am not stronger for having gone through them.  No resiliency was built. No recharging with positive experiences would help.

A chanting or prayer, music or dancing,  exercise or a friend to talk to? Not for some things people go through. Weathering stress in the right spirit?  Nope.

I still like to focus on SL as a temporary escape from minor annoyances at times, but there I nothing I do inworld that makes me stronger or more resilient for having logged in.

Edited April 19 by Cinnamon Mistwood
Spelling

[Rowan Amore]

24 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

At some point, the topic was changed again so it was about using SL for recovery from RL stress, not SL stress. So, it's been a moving target. I only came back because the ageism, etc. stirred me.

[Garnet Psaltery]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

This thread is so ironic.  I had to fight like the devil to fend off these annoying men in my Heart Menders group where we deal with loss in life. They'd try to tell everybody they should just 'toughen up' or do whatever mansplaining thing to 'fix' the problem.  I'd have to intervene so that people could just describe their loss and FEEL without interference.  It was a big battle, believe me, and I got in a fight with one of the regulars at the place who thought he should tell everyone to 'just be spiritual'.  But I persevered...I won...I won the right for people to feel pain and allow others just to listen to it without butting in. That's so healing, and our society just doesn't typically allow it easily -- they fear grief, want to shove it under the rug.

Wow, somehow you made that all about you.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

Wow, somehow you made that all about you.

Maybe she'll get "Therapist of the Year"!

[Jaylinbridges]

NPR Is a left-wing non-profit national radio network partially supported by CPB and private funding, is the most left-wing section of PBS, with radio programs aimed at women and minorities.  Try to understand who the target audience is for this kind of social advice.

The interviewee for this program was Dr. Lourdes Dolores Follins, Ph. D., LCSW-R   Her degree is in Social Work, and not psychology.   She describes herself, quote:

"About Me: I am a Black, queer, cisgender psychotherapist who provides relationship therapy to Black, Indigenous, and other people of color who are LGBTQI/SGL/NB."

She tries to define resilience as an insult, and ties the term to Slavery, Colonization, and Indentured Servitude.  And then tells her patients that they are limited in their recovery because of White Supremacy,  and Capitalism (of course).  

She is fully booked and can accept no more clients.  I wonder why?

Maybe this "feel good about yourself and blame everyone else for your troubles" is healthy for her clients.  But it is aimed at a narrow and targeted audience. And not men, those terrible inept unfeeling "manslpainers".

Edited April 20 by Jaylinbridges
Fixed it, as if it was important - both are public networks

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

NPR is the most left-wing section of PBS, with radio programs aimed at women and minorities.  Try to understand who the target audience is for this kind of social advice.

The interviewee for this program was Dr. Lourdes Dolores Follins, Ph. D., LCSW-R   Her degree is in Social Work, and not psychology.   She describes herself, quote:

"About Me: I am a Black, queer, cisgender psychotherapist who provides relationship therapy to Black, Indigenous, and other people of color who are LGBTQI/SGL/NB."

She tries to define resilience as an insult, and ties the term to Slavery, Colonization, and Indentured Servitude.  And then tells her patients that they are limited in their recovery because of White Supremacy,  and Capitalism (of course).  

She is fully booked and can accept no more clients.  I wonder why?

Maybe this "feel good about yourself and blame everyone else for your troubles" is healthy for her clients.  But it is aimed at a narrow and targeted audience. And not men, those terrible inept unfeeling "manslpainers".

🙄

[Love Zhaoying]

16 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

NPR is the most left-wing section of PBS, with radio programs aimed at women and minorities.  Try to understand who the target audience is for this kind of social advice.

The interviewee for this program was Dr. Lourdes Dolores Follins, Ph. D., LCSW-R   Her degree is in Social Work, and not psychology.   She describes herself, quote:

"About Me: I am a Black, queer, cisgender psychotherapist who provides relationship therapy to Black, Indigenous, and other people of color who are LGBTQI/SGL/NB."

She tries to define resilience as an insult, and ties the term to Slavery, Colonization, and Indentured Servitude.  And then tells her patients that they are limited in their recovery because of White Supremacy,  and Capitalism (of course).  

She is fully booked and can accept no more clients.  I wonder why?

Maybe this "feel good about yourself and blame everyone else for your troubles" is healthy for her clients.  But it is aimed at a narrow and targeted audience. And not men, those terrible inept unfeeling "manslpainers".

Sounds awesome!

NPR and PBS are unrelated entities, btw.

Yes, I wanted to say it: resilience sounds exactly like a callback to slavery. Thanks for finding a credible reference who says so!

 

[Rowan Amore]

My experience over the last year and half has required perseverance, not resilience.  I pushed through because I had no other choice.  Nothing was going to make it easier or less stressful. Nothing.  I certainly did not have a.positive outlook while going through it and I've barely bounced back.  A few other issues also arose out of the whole ordeal so there's that, too.  

Perseverance and resilience are two words that are often used interchangeably, but they actually have distinct meanings. Perseverance refers to the ability to persist in the face of obstacles and setbacks, while resilience refers to the ability to bounce back from adversity and maintain a POSITIVE OUTLOOK. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Perseverance refers to the ability to persist in the face of obstacles and setbacks, while resilience refers to the ability to bounce back from adversity and maintain a POSITIVE OUTLOOK. 

Without perseverance, there's no path to resilience..

ETA: I was agreeing with you and trying to relate the two terms, if anyone wonders!

Edited April 19 by Love Zhaoying

[Kathlen Onyx]

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you managed to cope with the adverse condition you developed resilience! 

Wrong. If someone gets shot in the head *adverse condition* and recovers they learned survival not resilience.

Edited April 19 by Kathlen Onyx

[Jaylinbridges]

56 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

NPR and PBS are unrelated entities, btw.

Yes, I wanted to say it: resilience sounds exactly like a callback to slavery. Thanks for finding a credible reference who says so!

Our local public TV channel broadcasts both PBS and NPR audio on the same channel.  There is some talk of PBS and NPR merging, to increase their chance of survival.  It's hard to survive when the FOX Entertainment channel has the largest "news" audience.

Resilience sounds nothing like a callback to slavery.  That is silly, as Luna said.  You will be hard pressed to find many real psychologists or sociologists agreeing with that opinion.  The Romans had it right.  Remember to not believe everything you read on the internet.