Land Sales Crash

[Goblin Waifu]

5 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

I'd support a "no floating structures/map art under 500m" rule, but sadly I don't see it happening.

I'd like mainland more if they had a no garbage zone up to at least 300m above the ground level

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Very little point in making suggestions which can't be enforced. 

Skyboxes above some arbitrary height?  Sure, why not, but who's going to go round to every single parcel and check this?   

[Diablo Lioncourt]

56 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Very little point in making suggestions which can't be enforced. 

Skyboxes above some arbitrary height?  Sure, why not, but who's going to go round to every single parcel and check this?   

I agree. None of these suggestions would likely be implemented in an enforceable way in mainland as we know it today. 

There's a history of litigation after they've made changes to how purchased land works in SL in the past.

Anyone else ever notice that "Resident" became the de facto replacement for "Owner" in reference to the person on the land everywhere in their written communications at some point?

Edit to add: this wasn't a Linden conspiracy theory. Please don't interpret the above as that. "Owner" is a term someone can legally attempt to twist / question / seek legal definition of all over the place. "I own this land, so if you ban me I must be allowed to import it into another Metaverse, and you cannot move it to another simulator, such as one on AWS hardware, without my permission" kinda stuff.

Its impossible to anticipate everything that can happen when you're doing something that's never been done before.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Diablo Lioncourt

[Diablo Lioncourt]

On 12/13/2023 at 2:54 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

Calleta was never called a city when it was born, and for years after. I think you are arguing out from your experience of Bay City to believing that many other things are cities.

 

Calleta City

Calleta is a part of Heterocera continent with many urban landscapes. According to City & Town definitions, it is a city because it covers multiple regions.

History

Unlike other pre-defined urban places, like Bay City, Nautilus City or Kama City, Calleta was not intentionatelly built that way. Its composing regions don't share a common word. Even so, from beginning, Calleta was one of the first regions in Heterocera and the most important place for new settlers to start their journey.

Geography

Calleta is in the South West Plain, with an average Altitude of 25 meters and sea contact. The plain continues to West. To North, the low mountains start to rise. To East, the Inner Delta is very close. To South, the ANWR channel (see Transcontinental Channels) is nearby.

It is composed of the following region (in alphabetic order):

• Burns - a transitory landscape between urban Neumogen and rural West plain
• Calleta - heart of the city, with many buildings
• Cercopia - the docks and the gateway to Sansara
• Columbia - has urban streets, a harbor, SLRR and Monorail connections, alternative ferry to Sansara
• Euryalus - transition to the delta
• Hera - suburbs, residential area and railways
• Lebeau - suburbs, representance from Lionheart Microcontinent
• Neumogen - also known as Tokyo, a railway maze
• Oculea- a transitory landscape
• Sweetbay - suburbs in South
• Tuliptree - headquaters of Virtual Railway Consortium

Transporation

Calleta is the most important intersection in Heterocera, for roads, railways, waterways and air transportation.

Airports There are two airports in the Calleta City area. Port Calleta (SLCI) in Cecropia is the gateway to Heterocera, in the Cecropia region, with a direct and unobstructed landing path from the ANWR strait.

Hinamizawa Airport (SLNZ)is located in Neumogen. Since there are not many parcels of Land With Restricted Access around, airplanes can fly basically to any direction.

Railways All regions except Euryalus have railway access. Also, many of the buildings existing in Calleta are railway-themed. The main line starts from Tuliptree, then goes through Sweetbay, Columbia, Sweetbay again, Calleta, Oculea, Neumogen. Many private-owned railways exist in the area. The West Atoll Railroad started from Neumogen and connected all the region in the South West Plain. WARR holdings in Neumogen and Burns are now owned by the Hinamizawa Airport. From Burns to Grote, ending at Sandhill Sage Road, is owned by Govorner Linden. The remainder of the former WARR has been cleared of all rails and is designated as "Linden Right of Way".

Other two railways once connected Neumogen with region in North West (Hera, Griffin and Rustic). They changed their shapes many times and currently they start from Oculea. Another, less known railway, is Oculea - Lebeau, that ends in a train depot. From that depot you can get a landmark to Lionheart Microcontinent. The only remaining part of these lines now ends at Route 1.

The GSLR is a strategic and historical railway that connects Heterocera with Sansara. It starts in Calleta, then continues to Cecropia, where you can take a ferry to Purple station and continue your journey in Sansara.

Railway map changes every month. For example, at some point in 2013 there was a large train depot in the center of Calleta. It was replaced with Urban Degenerate (see below). Eventually Urban Degenerate abandoned much of its land in Calleta and the ALPHA Center moved in. ALPHA abandoned their holdings in Calleta and much of the land is now part of Calleta Union Station, a depot whose construction began in late 2013. The railways to Hera and Rustic changed their shapes many times. In summer 2013 there was a long tunnel in Hera. Then, the Rustic rail vanished for a while. The cosmic railway, that connects Neumogen with a high skybox with the help of an invisible railway, changed its shape many times. Late in December 2013 Neumogen railway maze vanished without a warning and Hera-Rustic railways were connected to the main line from Oculea.

A great improvement was in summer 2014, when Calleta Monorail was created on abandoned fields in Columbia and Cecropia. The monorail was closed in August 2017.

Railways have automated transportation. There are many trains seen every day.

Roadways Calleta is an important intersection. Road access is easy to North, East and West (and then to the entire continent). Neumogen is an important starting point for trips to Heterocera mountains (see Mountains Of Heterocera for more data).

Since West Atoll Railroad has been abandoned, the road network must take all the traffic WARR had in past.

There is automated road transportation. Yavanna Llanfair script pods can be found on most all roads and rails on the grid. Also frequently seen on the rails and waterways are automated trams and boats operated by Ana.

Waterways

Cercopia is the gateway to Sansara. For the first settlers, this was the place they arrived after passing through the ANWR channel. Cercopia has its own docks and so do all regions close to the shores: Calleta, Tuliptree or Hera. Unlike other places, Heterocera has official automated water transportation. There are 3 ferry routes through Calleta city: Cercopia - Purple, Tuliptree - Bay City and Tuliptree - Bhaga. Sometimes, also Yava script pods can be found sailing small distances.

Important Places

Calleta Union Station is a large train station in Calleta City, in the Calleta region. It connects with the main SLRR line to the east and the Northern Continent branch of the GSLR to the west. The station has three boarding platforms, two alongside station land track and one alongside the GSLR line itself, which can be used by trains that wish to stop at the station but do not wish to turn off the GSLR line.

The Hobo Railroad Infohub, located in Calleta, is an official SecondLife Infohub, owned by Governor Linden but operated and maintained mostly by a group of long term citizens. It is in the theme of a depression era hobo encampment, and set the tone for the original theme of Calleta.

Urban Degenerate was formerly the center of Calleta City. It was a Soviet-themed place, with a lot of radioactive waste, built on the ruins of Calleta railway depot. Everything was rusted, toxic and full of Communist symbols. It even included a railway station named Chernobyl (cyrillic writing) and a subway station too.

The Embarcadero/Columbia Mall used to be an important structure, surrounded by a large boulevard with its own tram. Unfortunately, it got blown up and the land it occupied is now an open field.

Tuliptree is important for its railway station and contains a VRC center.

Source: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Calleta_City

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Diablo Lioncourt

[Setsuki Takeda]

13 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

So is IM'ing a home owner after you've been punted and banned, demanding they unban you, take down their banlines and delete their orb or else you'll get your friends to harass them, but Fanatical Home Invaders do that quite often.

That's why I automatically AR any home invader who IM's me to whine about getting punted from my parcel and banned.

 

I only send them an IM to ask if they *know* they are doing it.

If they know I chalk it up to an antisocial nature and move on with my life...

Sad that so few can manage this

[Setsuki Takeda]

11 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

I'd support a "no floating structures/map art under 500m" rule, but sadly I don't see it happening.

Yeah, the skybox tower near my home starts like 50m off the ground, then ends at about 2500m...

I usually don't put anything *below* 2000m unless it is part of a public build since I assume people will ba passing through under 500m. It also lets me, very easily, control zones with my orb so I can use a base level land orb for griefers, bots, spammers, stalkers, and one other... Then use a second orb to kick anyone who actually enters a private area. Keeps the people who seem to jump to any dot on the map then "TP to Avatar" landing on my head in my living room while I'm watching a movie out of my home, but lets the people who wander in off the Linden Road see what I have built (or had, I only have my own private space in the sky up now) without interfeering in my private spaces. They can send me a message from the ground and I can either invite them up, come down to show them around the area, or tell them to come back another time as I am currently occupied.

All without turning purple and spewing spittle on my screen as I scream about home invasions XD

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

second orb to kick anyone who actually enters a private area. Keeps the people who seem to jump to any dot on the map then "TP to Avatar" landing on my head in my living room while I'm watching a movie out of my home

Funny...

When I state I have banlines and an orb to keep random trash out of my living room, you call me incompetent, paranoid, and stupid, but apparently when YOU do it, it's perfectly justified.

Over-entitled Home Invader hypocrisy at it's best.

"What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too!"

 

3 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

I only send them an IM to ask if they *know* they are doing it.

And THAty is the harassment, you INSULT them by suggesting they are "too stupid" to know they put up banlines and know they rezzed an orb, and know they set it to punt your over-entitled ass.

And THAT is why you get AR'd.

 

[Setsuki Takeda]

23 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Funny...

When I state I have banlines and an orb to keep random trash out of my living room, you call me incompetent, paranoid, and stupid, but apparently when YOU do it, it's perfectly justified.

Over-entitled Home Invader hypocrisy at it's best.

"What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too!"

 

And THAty is the harassment, you INSULT them by suggesting they are "too stupid" to know they put up banlines and know they rezzed an orb, and know they set it to punt your over-entitled ass.

And THAT is why you get AR'd.

 

Ah, yes, totally the same to have a private area 3km up measuring only 12m x 24m (and not actually affecting anyone not *inside* the skybx) and to shut down the whole parcel at all levels even those you are not making use of and are outside of draw distance of any build. Totally the exact same thing! I get it, and believe you... Really XD

As to your section of that typing rampage delivered with such... earnest fervor that it makes me fear you will one day have an aneurysm and faceplant into your keyboard before managing to hit send...

You sure you actually are in SL and not just haunting the forums?

I mean half the people I meet don't know they have a facelight on that could guide the shuttle in from orbit... You think most who search the MP for "free security" actually know how the item they rezzed works? I'd like to believe that but, sadly, the benefit of the doubt has been proven to be far too generous for most time and again.

Never assume maliciousness where a lack of education could be the answer. I always *start* by thinking someone is a decent person and let them prove me wrong... Repeatedly... Withing a few minutes while I am off shopping and checking out winter builds from the destination guide

[Zalificent Corvinus]

39 minutes ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

to shut down the whole parcel at all levels

If I want to shut down MY parcel, I can, it's my right. Accept that, stop "frothing at the mouth and having an aneurysm" and MOVE ON.

I don't want you or anyone like you, on my parcel, that is my right. Accept that, stop "frothing at the mouth and having an aneurysm" and MOVE ON.

You are the one who keeps trying to win an argument with false claims, that you will always lose. Accept that, stop "frothing at the mouth and having an aneurysm" and MOVE ON.

LL allow mainland parcel owners to put up banlines. You LOSE. Accept that, stop "frothing at the mouth and having an aneurysm" and MOVE ON.

LL allow mainlander parcel owners to buy and own security orbs. You LOSE. Accept that, stop "frothing at the mouth and having an aneurysm" and MOVE ON.

LL allow mainland parcel owners to punt your ass back where it came from. You Lose. Accept that, stop "frothing at the mouth and having an aneurysm" and MOVE ON.

 

49 minutes ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

You sure you actually are in SL and not just haunting the forums?

You don't seem to have learned from being in world that everything you foam at the mouth about, is ALLOWED by LL.

50 minutes ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

I mean half the people I meet don't know they

... are unwelcome criminal trespassers who deliberately violate the LL ToS by harassing parcel owners.

That I can well believe.

 

Accept that, stop "frothing at the mouth and having an aneurysm" and MOVE ON.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

earnest fervor that it makes me fear you will one day have an aneurysm and faceplant into your keyboard before managing to hit send...

This is a humorous image when applied to anyone, although I've come to be fond of Zalificent's "rants".

2 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

You sure you actually are in SL and not just haunting the forums?

I resemble that remark!

[Always Incognito]

On 12/16/2023 at 2:30 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

This is a humorous image when applied to anyone, although I've come to be fond of Zalificent's "rants".

I resemble that remark!

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 hours ago, Always Incognito said:

ahhhh the good old days of unmoderated forums and endless flaming.

The internet promised us so much, but in the end has delivered so little.

And please dont say the internet is better and safer today, because being able to have your whole life destroyed because some losers dont like what you said is NOT a good thing.

The internet is no longer a space for the free exchange of ideas, its the ultimate form of government censorship and control.

[Persephone Emerald]

On 12/15/2023 at 5:02 PM, Goblin Waifu said:

I'd like mainland more if they had a no garbage zone up to at least 300m above the ground level

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

please dont say the internet is better and safer today,

Yes, if it was really better and safer, I wouldn't be constantly triggered by the smallest criticism.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

On 12/15/2023 at 8:02 PM, Goblin Waifu said:

I'd like mainland more if they had a no garbage zone up to at least 300m above the ground level

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Treasure => Dragon's Hoard => Hoarders!

[Marianne Little]

On 12/4/2023 at 12:30 AM, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

------ Unprotected water lots are like living next to an Ice Cream shop, loving Ice Cream, and yet being allergic to it. It's an exercise in frustration.

 

I like void water just so I can look at it and have a lighthouse and off land dolphins that can swim in the void. I can not put a thing out in the protected Linden waterways. 2 X void water to south and west, no one can build there. 🥰

Edited December 19, 2023 by Marianne Little
changed a word

[BilliJo Aldrin]

10 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I like void water just so I can look at it and have a lighthouse and off land dolphins that can swim in the void. I can not put a thing out in the protected Linden waterways. 2 X void water to south and west, no one can build there. 🥰

One time i had an off sim island with a dance ball attached, I could dance off sim and no one could get to me 😁

[Prokofy Neva]

The past auction wins are an instructive page to examine; these disappear nearly instantly on the official SL page (or are hard to find, and when you do pull them up, they only go back a week or two on the regular web page). So this is one thing that bonniebots does that is useful, although it comes at a cost, of course, of bots everywhere.

Note Zindra - $4+-$5/meter. Supposedly this "can't be". Yet there it is, again and again on the auctions -- or less.

Remember, as Qie pointed out, everything on the auction was once abandoned! Or, in far more rare cases, the owner died in RL or their land was seized for non-payment by the Lindens and then auctioned.

Note if something is $0 it's because it got no bids at all.

 

Edited January 6 by Prokofy Neva

[Clem Marques]

On 1/6/2024 at 8:17 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

The past auction wins are an instructive page to examine; these disappear nearly instantly on the official SL page (or are hard to find, and when you do pull them up, they only go back a week or two on the regular web page). So this is one thing that bonniebots does that is useful, although it comes at a cost, of course, of bots everywhere.

Note Zindra - $4+-$5/meter. Supposedly this "can't be". Yet there it is, again and again on the auctions -- or less.

Remember, as Qie pointed out, everything on the auction was once abandoned! Or, in far more rare cases, the owner died in RL or their land was seized for non-payment by the Lindens and then auctioned.

Note if something is $0 it's because it got no bids at all.

The auction results reflect the poor performance of the land sale market quite clearly. Zindra seems to fetch lower prices than it used to a few years ago, and the land sales have apparently slowed down at the moment. That's the impression I get. Believe it or not, it was a struggle to sell protected roadside parcels in Kama City for as little as 9 L$/m2 last month. I know I am not the only one who has had a hard time with that, as there are currently similar cases in the Donathan and Strute regions of Kama City. I have seen others in the past few months. Can't sell parcels even if you price them at a loss. Go figure.

There currently is a very large 1x protected Kama City parcel in the auctions (https://places.secondlife.com/parcels/291508/baern-152-54-adult-8064m) and I am very curious about what the result will be on that one. My guess is that it won't be too expensive, especially considering the fact that it's a big parcel that can't be subdivided (covenant rules) and not everyone can afford a tier that high. But still... it's protected land in one of the best parts of Zindra.

I don't think the land market as a whole is crashing. The land sales seem to be struggling at the moment, but my guess is that it is due to a shift in the market trend instead of a crash. Zindra parcels in particular have gotten so expensive that many seem have given up on owning land in that continent, choosing to buy abandoned Moderate land for 1L$/m2 or cheaper Moderate protected parcels instead. That is the clever thing to do nowadays if one wants to own land for anything other than an adult business or club. 

There seems to be a high demand for Linden Homes nowadays, particularly the 2048m premium plus ones, which is understandable because they are very nice. That might be one of the contributing factors in the drop in land sales. And of course, there is the option to rent land, which is definitely appealing considering that it's often way, way cheaper than buying the parcel and paying the monthly tier for it. There are some very affordable landlords out there providing a roof for those who are not so well off, and I appreciate that. Another important factor might be people's RL financial situation not being so good, which is unrelated to SL but does affect the amount of money people are willing to spend here. However, despite all of that, there are still people out there who buy land, so it can't be that bad.

The market varies a lot, this might just be a temporary issue. I love land in SL, and I hope things improve. 

Edited January 9 by Clem Marques

[Qie Niangao]

8 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

The auction results reflect the poor performance of the land sale market quite clearly. Zindra seems to fetch lower prices than it used to a few years ago, and the land sales have apparently slowed down at the moment. That's the impression I get. Believe it or not, it was a struggle to sell protected roadside parcels in Kama City for as little as 9 L$/m2 last month. I know I am not the only one who has had a hard time with that, as there are currently some similar cases in the Baern and Strute regions of Kama City. Can't sell parcels even if you price them at a loss. Go figure.

It's an interesting situation, especially considering that we expect that missing southeast quadrant of Zindra to be populated this year, which may (or may not) add supply to a market already showing faltering demand. I don't know what they have planned for that corner other than it'll be Adult and thematically distinct from the rest of Zindra; that's all Patch revealed at SL20B and I haven't heard any more details. Perhaps it'll be Adult "Bellisseria-zoned" land, which would compete only indirectly with other Adult land.

The high land prices in Zindra (historically higher, but still quite pricey on average compared to average Mainland) have always been a bit mysterious to me, given that minting a new Estate island costs no more if rated Adult. Obviously the market for "ownership" is different, subscriber-only Mainland vs Estate, but there are many Zindra residential rentals too, which compete pretty directly as far as I can tell.

(In passing, I'm personally not a big fan of "downtown" Kama City, having owned a chunk of it when Zindra was brand new. But that's probably disillusionment over irrational expectations for a vibrant concentrated Adult experience—which is no doubt better served in role-play themed Estate regions anyway.)

[Diablo Lioncourt]

The market in Zindra has crashed even further since I made this post LOL.

Demand to buy land overall is just getting even softer. At the same time, my rental occupancy is going up. Mostly from cheap furnished skyboxes. It is what it is.

 

Edited January 9 by Diablo Lioncourt

[Love Zhaoying]

Is it possible, that "most users" are relatively unaware of Auctions - so there is very little competition for buying Land at Auctions?

[Clem Marques]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is it possible, that "most users" are relatively unaware of Auctions - so there is very little competition for buying Land at Auctions?

That is possible as well.

Most of my friends, when I bring up the topic of land, are either unaware of the auctions or know about it but don't ever look at them. I guess it's fair to assume a good chunk of the SL population doesn't know or care about this opportunity, resulting in lower prices.

Even though that plays a role, it is not the only thing to consider. The low prices at the auctions along with slower sales and lower land resale prices point at a lack of interest in land ownership, in my opinion. Maybe bringing more attention to the fact that the auctions exist would help. Worth a shot.

2 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

The market in Zindra has crashed even further since I made this post LOL.

Damn 😅

Edited January 9 by Clem Marques

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

That is possible as well.

Most of my friends, when I bring up the topic of land, are either unaware of the auctions or know about it but don't ever look at them. I guess it's fair to assume a good chunk of the SL population doesn't know or care about this opportunity, resulting in lower prices.

Just a reminder, weren't auctions "broken" for a long, long time? Long enough that people may have been unaware they were "fixed" even.

2 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

The market in Zindra has crashed even further since I made this post LOL.

Demand to buy land overall is just getting even softer. At the same time, my rental occupancy is going up. Mostly from cheap furnished skyboxes. It is what it is.

 

Rental has its definite advantages - no tier fees to pay, no "real" commitment, no worry to "get your money back" when selling to move, etc.

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Just a reminder, weren't auctions "broken" for a long, long time? Long enough that people may have been unaware they were "fixed" even.

They were broken for quite a while. IIRC that was back when Resident-to-Resident auctions were disabled.

But I don't think auctions have ever been a very popular market for retail-scale landowners. If I wanted to buy land today, I could look at today's listing to see if there's anything suitable, but there probably won't be. If I kept at it for a month or even a week, something might very well appear, and I might very well save some L$s buying it directly at auction instead of from a reseller. (Obviously the reseller's business depends on that being the case.) But that's a lot of patience to expect of somebody looking to own land—as opposed to somebody looking for land they might resell at a profit.