Editing pictures is hard, I can't make it look good

[Marianne Little]

I spend a lot of time on taking pictures in SL, because I am not good at editing. I must get the raw image as good as possible. I always think it looks worse, the more editing I do. I will not pay for Photoshop, so I make do with free programs.

I think my unedited pictures look more real.

Like this, raw image to the left and edited to the right. I think I have done too much. I think one arm turned out well. But the other is overdone. I did not like the armpit shadow and it was a shadow of the hair on the arm. When I tried to fix it, it looks worse.

What am I satisfied with? The right arm came out well from behind the hair. A vignette adds drama. But the left arm is not good. I am going to delete the pictures and try for better ones tomorrow.

I did the old flexi hair trick: One picture with the hair, and one without hair. Then I layered them and erased the part of the top picture so the arm was visible. That makes the right arm look better, I think. It is not overworked.

How much time do you spend on getting it 'right'?

 

 

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

How much time do you spend on getting it 'right'?

I spend way more time inworld working on angles, EEPS, and viewer filters than I do on outside editing. I can spend 30 or more minutes on one shot inworld.

Outside the viewer I only crop and change colors or lighting.  So, less than 2 minutes editing.  I never do fine detail work like fixing clipping issues.  If I don't like the way something clips, I change the angle or fix the clipping before I take photo if I see it.

[JeromFranzic]

I think your vignetting edit here is wonderful. I don't always have the patience to post process.

Most of the time, I'm on Firestorm when I take photos. If I want the crazy angles I will crank out some Black Dragon goodness. Lately I have been using the PBR versions of FS, Alchemy and Cool VL as I find the lighting to be more realistic there... but of course it will vary depending on the environment. I mostly rely on Shared Environment, and the occasional facelight.

Gimp is my #1 photo editor, though I will use Krita occasionally if I need some extra effects.

[Aiyumei]

8 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

How much time do you spend on getting it 'right'?

That entirely depends on what you're aiming for. The style and theme you go for.

The time can vary between 10 minutes and 6 hours in my case.
I also prefer realism in my works and avoiding adding effects that will make my photos unrealistic or swarmed. One such example would be painting over the original photo, making it look as if it was drawn - a method that is very time consuming.

Depending on the tool you use you can apply different effects and looks, having the option to layer images is the bread and butter of all editing. If you don't feel like adding too much and simply want to enhance the original image I suggest adding depth, shades and highlights. There are countless guides on the aimed aimed at achieving these specific effects, some even posted by SL users doing inworld photography and later editing it. Keep in mind that some of the effects people will add in their guides or what you see on Flickr comes from premium plugins that don't come cheap.

[Marianne Little]

I use Krita mostly.

I like to layer copies of the same image on top.

I can add effects to them, like desaturate one copy and then make it partly transparent, so the original image is not so brightly colored. I can use Multiply, Overlay or Screen... depending on what I want,

What I totally can't do in Krita, is working on skin, to make a shadow I don't want there go away. The skin always look worse than when I started to work on it. 

[Nando Yip]

SL photos are fun, I really appreciate them and I think they're incredible, as many people do work with a lot of post-production, I take photos a little but I consider myself just average, as I don't have time to do a lot of finishing on photos. I generally use the official SL viewer for everything, and the photos I take of AV are usually using Vista's own AO without freezing pose, as if it were a fashion editorial photo in RL.
When I want effects I use PS or MOVAVI, but this happens when I photograph my sets, I build them in the world, to show RL clients what the scenography of a show, or a theater show, or the displays for exhibitions will look like. of art.
But I never lose sight of the freedom and pleasure of doing things, I think that's what really matters, the fun of making images.

[Joaannna]

Not a lot of time, really. I mostly just crop the picture and adjust things like colour curves, contrast and shadows. I then usually sharpen the image a bit and for my more 'noirish' pictures sometimes add noise for a grainy feel, and that's about it. My thought is its best to get the picture as good as you can in Second Life and just use editing to enhance a little.

[ValKalAstra]

Oh boy. Confession time: I need way too long for a picture.

I'm talking upwards of several hours for one. It starts with setting up outfits, adjusting poses, tweaking the lighting, scripting some particle effects if the shot calls for them. Once I somehow magically find the right picture, I take several shots, switch up lighting, take more shots - then switch composition just to reset my view and take even more shots. I try to avoid clipping with my pose and if I can't do that, I take picture with and without the offending attachment.

After all that, usually 3-4 hours, I head into post processing and work just as long there. Usually I further adjust lighting, contrast, paint over some parts. Sometimes I add little details if the shot calls for them. Maybe some hand painted hairstrands, perhaps a visual effect (I'm a sucker for shiny particle stuff), maybe a localized fake motion blur to suggest motion. Usually I'm adding some painted on lighting still.

It takes way too long

On 9/12/2023 at 10:07 PM, Marianne Little said:

I think my unedited pictures look more real.

I think it's a pretty shot both before and after editing. However if I were to hazard a guess, I'd probably point at the blur being the culprit. It's not quite where I would expect to find it. For example: I would expect the body - as the main subject - to be in focus. However while parts of the face and bosom are in sharp focus, the belly has become blurred. The blur suggest depth or motion that is not otherwise conveyed, lending itself to a bit of a surreal result in my eyes. Just my guess - it's still a cool shot and I think overall the edits have added to the picture.

But I can also relate to the feeling of "this edit made it worse" when I look at my graveyard of deleted pictures that I never uploaded, because I got so entrenched in the edit that I began hating the result.

 

[Rowan Amore]

If start to finish takes more than 30 mins., I skip it for the day.  Get dressed, find a place, pick a spot, select pose, point and shoot.  Post.

Of course, I'm just doing for my own enjoyment and too much time and fiddling would make it seem like work.  Not here for that nonsense. 😁

Edited September 20, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Ayashe Ninetails]

On 9/12/2023 at 4:07 PM, Marianne Little said:

How much time do you spend on getting it 'right'?

In-world, several hours to all day, usually. Outside editing - 0.

The bulk of the time is spent picking out the right scene (which may or may not involve shopping), decorating it if needed, dressing and styling my avatar, creating poses, fighting with camera angles, and tweaking the EEPs. Sometimes setting up additional lighting and effects (particles, etc.).

Once the shoot is finally done, that's it. Straight to Flickr. No editing.

[Marianne Little]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:36 PM, ValKalAstra said:

Oh boy. Confession time: I need way too long for a picture.

I'm talking upwards of several hours for one. It starts with setting up outfits, adjusting poses, tweaking the lighting, scripting some particle effects if the shot calls for them. Once I somehow magically find the right picture, I take several shots, switch up lighting, take more shots - then switch composition just to reset my view and take even more shots. I try to avoid clipping with my pose and if I can't do that, I take picture with and without the offending attachment.

After all that, usually 3-4 hours, I head into post processing and work just as long there. Usually I further adjust lighting, contrast, paint over some parts. Sometimes I add little details if the shot calls for them. Maybe some hand painted hairstrands, perhaps a visual effect (I'm a sucker for shiny particle stuff), maybe a localized fake motion blur to suggest motion. Usually I'm adding some painted on lighting still.

It takes way too long

I think it's a pretty shot both before and after editing. However if I were to hazard a guess, I'd probably point at the blur being the culprit. It's not quite where I would expect to find it. For example: I would expect the body - as the main subject - to be in focus. However while parts of the face and bosom are in sharp focus, the belly has become blurred. The blur suggest depth or motion that is not otherwise conveyed, lending itself to a bit of a surreal result in my eyes. Just my guess - it's still a cool shot and I think overall the edits have added to the picture.

But I can also relate to the feeling of "this edit made it worse" when I look at my graveyard of deleted pictures that I never uploaded, because I got so entrenched in the edit that I began hating the result.

 

Yes, added blur wasn't the best idea I suppose. It is something I was used to when I did the free version of Ribbet.

Most of the time I can't really explain what I do or why I do it. I try to stop what I do when I like it.

I made a new picture and this became what I posted on Flickr. I could have posted the raw image, but I was stubborn and looked at the arm shadow again. I am sure no one besides me would have noticed it. So I edited it just for me.

The spread left hand and bangles cast a jagged shadow on the arm. It is natural, but I did not like it. So here I tried to make a 'real' SL shadow smooth.

I also did not like the overarm on the other side, so I tried to reduce the 'bump'.

The rest is adding contrast. I have a tendency to add moo much Dodge and Burn, but I think I stopped myself in time.

[Marianne Little]

I edited this a lot.

Notice how her leg meet her butt. I did not like how that bend looks. If I wanted to use the pose, that is how the mesh body bends. I think that what I edited there made it look better. At least without Photoshop and only a happy amateur job.

I think it is the first time I have corrected a bend in the body and was satisfied with the edit.

I did some work on his lifted leg too.

The rest is just fun, I wanted to tilt the image a bit. I had the color layer duplicated, desaturated the layer on top, and then made the desaturated layer a little bit transparent. I like the result.

I am not sure what I could do better, what do you think? Perhaps the added tilt and framing was too much. When I look at the image without it, I am in doubt. But I always question my pictures.

 

[ValKalAstra]

Generally, I am not that big a fan of angles but they quite work in your favour here, I feel. It adds to the dynamic pose and it balances out the  - missing the english word for it, sorry, the part where the floor meets the wall. Wood border? Maybe? The frame too combines with the interesting shadow you've got in the background.

You've also added some brushstrokes, I guess to simulate some lens or old picture effect? It works here. I wouldn't know what else to edit. I would need to get super, super nitpicky for that. Which might work as an exercise in perfectionism but goes way beyond what's reasonable, I feel? It's a good picture!

[SabrinaCooke]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:36 PM, ValKalAstra said:

Oh boy. Confession time: I need way too long for a picture.

I'm talking upwards of several hours for one. It starts with setting up outfits, adjusting poses, tweaking the lighting, scripting some particle effects if the shot calls for them. Once I somehow magically find the right picture, I take several shots, switch up lighting, take more shots - then switch composition just to reset my view and take even more shots. I try to avoid clipping with my pose and if I can't do that, I take picture with and without the offending attachment.

After all that, usually 3-4 hours, I head into post processing and work just as long there. Usually I further adjust lighting, contrast, paint over some parts. Sometimes I add little details if the shot calls for them. Maybe some hand painted hairstrands, perhaps a visual effect (I'm a sucker for shiny particle stuff), maybe a localized fake motion blur to suggest motion. Usually I'm adding some painted on lighting still.

It takes way too long

I'm like this, too. But I enjoy the process so I usually don't mind spending time on my photos, unless I'm up against a deadline in SL, or worse, in RL. 

[Marianne Little]

I think I have very bad eyesight, so brush strokes, I can't see them, hehe. (Edit: I think it was a textured vignette. I am addicted to vignettes.)

I am not sure what makes them.

English isn't my language either, but I saw the baseboard was straight when I tilted the image. (I had to google to find the word baseboard) 😁

And I liked the way it looks straight. I am not a fan of those who post every single image angled. It is overused.

It's possible to see it bigger here (the dance) Dangerous Dance | Pose [piXit] Dramatic Moves - Power Games … | Flickr

@ValKalAstra

Edited September 27, 2023 by Marianne Little

[Marianne Little]

https://www.rawpixel.com/search/frame?page=1&sort=curated&topic_group=_topics

I got some free frames from the site over.

And textured vignettes from here. I share them in case you want to try them out. https://designbundles.net/free-design-resources/add-ons/free-30-vignette-photo-overlays

I am not 100% sure if I like it or not. On one hand I think it is fun to try something new, on the other hand, is it too much?

[JeromFranzic]

3 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

https://www.rawpixel.com/search/frame?page=1&sort=curated&topic_group=_topics

I got some free frames from the site over.

And textured vignettes from here. I share them in case you want to try them out. https://designbundles.net/free-design-resources/add-ons/free-30-vignette-photo-overlays

I am not 100% sure if I like it or not. On one hand I think it is fun to try something new, on the other hand, is it too much?

The second frame is perfect.

[Randy Pole]

I think you are going to have more problems than most due to the colour of your skin. As it is an unnatural colour it will look even more unnatural under certain lighting conditions. For example Grand Admiral Thrawn looks great in animated and still art but in live action he looks odd as humans are used to seeing human skin tones.

I'd experiment on getting lighting in world as good as you can. Play around with lighted objects that project textures in order to achieve effects otherwise not possible in world. It will cut down on the amount of work you have to do in your editor of choice.

[Marianne Little]

5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

https://www.rawpixel.com/search/frame?page=1&sort=curated&topic_group=_topics

I got some free frames from the site over.

And textured vignettes from here. I share them in case you want to try them out. https://designbundles.net/free-design-resources/add-ons/free-30-vignette-photo-overlays

I am not 100% sure if I like it or not. On one hand I think it is fun to try something new, on the other hand, is it too much?

I like to get free stuff. I am addicted to vignettes, so that pack of free textures vignette types was perfect. I have to go through a lot of things I don't like in Rawpixel, it reminds me of the SL Marketplace.

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Randy Pole said:

I think you are going to have more problems than most due to the colour of your skin. As it is an unnatural colour it will look even more unnatural under certain lighting conditions. For example Grand Admiral Thrawn looks great in animated and still art but in live action he looks odd as humans are used to seeing human skin tones.

I'd experiment on getting lighting in world as good as you can. Play around with lighted objects that project textures in order to achieve effects otherwise not possible in world. It will cut down on the amount of work you have to do in your editor of choice.

I like projected lights a lot. Some times, especially in fashion outfit of the day looks, I use a black EEP where only lights are visible. But for the blue skin, I used an EEP setting from Battlescars. I think the sun color was blue, and when I think back, a peach or orange color would be better. To calm down the blue.

I wish I could learn green screen better, but I think it is difficult in the free program Krita.

I could take a picture against green and edit in a sky or other background after, but a bad done green screen is just awful. When it is hints of the green left.

[ValKalAstra]

1 hour ago, JeromFranzic said:

The second frame is perfect.

Agreed - it's a really lovely effect! Especially with the little hint of a shadow there and with two very pretty pictures.

 

1 hour ago, JeromFranzic said:

On one hand I think it is fun to try something new, on the other hand, is it too much?

I think that's the essence of it though, isn't it? Trying something new and having fun doing it! No such thing as too much if you learned something from it and in this case, it's tastefully subdued and totally not too much. Allow me to be a bit frank here.

When I started doing this a while ago, there were so many that inspired me with their art. They made these absolutely stunning pictures that seemed like they were from an entirely different game. I sat there wondering "how did they do this?!". Today, some of them are still making these pictures. Keyword being... these. For the two years I have been here, they've essentially made the same picture time and time again. They're great pictures for sure -  but there's no evolution, no improvement. Stagnant. Others have continously evolved and still make new pictures.

I think it's important to keep moving, to keep on improving, to keep trying and to reinvent yourself as much as you can. Don't fear doing too much. Try and find out! We wouldn't have those two very lovely framed pictures without you trying.

22 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I like to get free stuff. I am addicted to vignettes, so that pack of free textures vignette types was perfect. I have to go through a lot of things I don't like in Rawpixel, it reminds me of the SL Marketplace.

That's relatable. If you like free stuff and seeing how you mention greenscreen, let me give you two hints that helped me a lot!

15 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I could take a picture against green and edit in a sky or other background after, but a bad done green screen is just awful. When it is hints of the green left.

First is an option in Second Life. You want to turn off the glow effect when you are using greenscreen. The reason being that Second life by default bleeds colours to smoothen the image out somewhat. You can see that quite well if you pose in front of a greenscreen and your character suddenly gets a halo. That halo will absolutely mess up the greenscreen and it's a result of "glow".

The other hint is: https://www.photopea.com/

If you place a picture there, go to selection and find the entry "Remove BG" which will quite somewhat remove the background of an image. It's not perfect but if greenscreen ain't working for you, this might work better. If you're a person that loves to get super technical with lots of computer headaches - another option might be a segment anything plugin for krita but installing that is *very* technical. (github, torch, etc).

Still - I'd try greenscreen without SL's glow and then you can just select color with a slight feather, that way you really should not be left with any artefacts.

/edit: If you want, I can make a quick greenscreen tutorial for SL and Krita.

Edited September 27, 2023 by ValKalAstra

[Marianne Little]

17 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said:

First is an option in Second Life. You want to turn off the glow effect when you are using greenscreen. The reason being that Second life by default bleeds colours to smoothen the image

/edit: If you want, I can make a quick greenscreen tutorial for SL and Krita.

It would be fun to try green screen again, so if you have time to write about I would absolutely try it. 💓

Thank you for posting Photopea. I did not know about that editor.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Marianne Little

[SabrinaCooke]

I rarely use greenscreen anymore for static shots. I just preshoot a mask image in SL along with the posed shot and apply it in GIMP to get rid of the background. It even keeps most of the little details like flyaway hair strands intact, for the most part. Greenscreen is such a PITA haha.

[ValKalAstra]

And there it is:

Edited September 27, 2023 by ValKalAstra

[Orwar]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:07 PM, Marianne Little said:

How much time do you spend on getting it 'right'?

   Depends. I do a lot of shots with just my AO running, and usually grab an EEP I like and adjust the lighting direction to fit what I'm doing, occasionally rez a few local lights to fill or highlight with. Editing can be anything from doing a few of my 'routine' edits (such as creating DOF effects with layer masks and adjusting the tone and exposure, then doing some noise), to more severe edits - if I'm posed statically it's easy enough to layer shots to have hats that don't clip with the hair and such, but when my avi is moving around or if the body is deformed (mostly shoulders whenever the arms are held up), I'll just hand-paint it.

   Did this with a mixture of brushes and tools, drew an outline for where I thought the arms should be, filled it in, then blended the skin with a heal tool, shaded it a bit, and smudged it about a bit. 

   It isn't perfect (did both in like 15 minutes), but that's zoomed in a fair bit, and once you run some noise over it it isn't very noticeable.

Before and after:

   I just use Gimp. Never tried Krita, but I far prefer Gimp to Photoshop, even if I have access to it. And I never strive for 'perfection' or 'realism' in any of my edits, that'd be a short road to madness! A touch of stylistic expression, and just get rid of the most egregious eye-sores.