Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: 11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: When populations who deviate from the norm, sexually, are fully accepted by society (and this comes via education) then feelings will change. When those harboring hatred are instead propped up by institutions in society that have an agenda we won't see a complete acceptance for those who deviate from the norm, or for those who are seen as inferior. I have no issues with trans people or gay people or any people for that matter. When I am seeking a partner, I prefer a man who was born a man with all requisite equipment. I'm allowed to have that preference. I'm allowed to not date a male avatar in SL run by a female. It has nothing whatsoever to do with not accepting divisions from the norm. It's MY right to have a preference just as it's other's right to NOT have a preference. Some people won't date across racial or economics lines for whatever reason. No one HAS to just as no one has to accept dating an avatar of one sex run by the other. I think you're conflating some points here. Like you, if I would date in 2nd life I would have a preference for who is behind that keyboard, so I totally get that! Of course it's our right. But we are talking about a different type of person here...not the guys who politely decline Katherine on the 2nd life dance floor and move on, but guys who become outright hostile. I believe with SOME of these guys it is due to transphobia and/or homophobia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I think you're conflating some points here. Like you, if I would date in 2nd life I would have a preference for who is behind that keyboard, so I totally get that! Of course it's our right. But we are talking about a different type of person here...not the guys who politely decline Katherine on the 2nd life dance floor and move on, but guys who become outright hostile. I believe with SOME of these guys it is due to transphobia and/or homophobia. I think it has more to do with deception and embarrassment more than a phobia. Not all men playing SL as women are trans. Edited August 21, 2023 by Rowan Amore 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I believe with SOME of these guys it is due to transphobia and/or homophobia. Now here I agree with you however, there is nothing wrong with being either one. I know that you don't want to hear that but it's ok not to be accepting. Ranting and raving or calling people names is not ok though. But when people are faced with uncomfortable situations they react emotionally. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I think you're conflating some points here. Like you, if I would date in 2nd life I would have a preference for who is behind that keyboard, so I totally get that! Of course it's our right. But we are talking about a different type of person here...not the guys who politely decline Katherine on the 2nd life dance floor and move on, but guys who become outright hostile. I believe with SOME of these guys it is due to transphobia and/or homophobia. A phobia is a fear. I don't think we should berate people for their fear. I do think education helps to heal fear and that mature, rational people shouldn't attack another person physically or verbally when that person hasn't actually hurt them or threatened them. I think some people get a feeling they don't like - it might be fear or shame - and them blame the other person for this feeling, rather than realizing they created this feeling themself. They might react with anger, when no harm or deception was intended. Their irrational emotions don't make their behavior ok. "That person made me feel weird, insecure, or angry," is not a legitimate excuse to attack them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Just now, Rowan Amore said: 11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I think you're conflating some points here. Like you, if I would date in 2nd life I would have a preference for who is behind that keyboard, so I totally get that! Of course it's our right. But we are talking about a different type of person here...not the guys who politely decline Katherine on the 2nd life dance floor and move on, but guys who become outright hostile. I believe with SOME of these guys it is due to transphobia and/or homophobia. Expand I think it has more to do with deception and embarrassment more than a phobia. Not all men playing SL as women trans. I would agree that with some men it's due to feeling deceived and embarrassed, but in other cases it's due to transphobia and/or homophobia. It's both, and doesn't have to be only one or the other. Maybe if I would cite some experiments demonstrating the massive amounts of transphobia and homophobia in existence you could see these cases exist too? It all seems a bit crazy to me. We even have people that deny racism is still in existence, yet I can cite many tests to prove it does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: 16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I believe with SOME of these guys it is due to transphobia and/or homophobia. Now here I agree with you however, there is nothing wrong with being either one. I know that you don't want to hear that but it's ok not to be accepting. Ranting and raving or calling people names is not ok though. But when people are faced with uncomfortable situations they react emotionally. I'm not sure how to debate this with you (that's it's ok not to be accepting). Is there anything more hateful than to tell another person they basically don't exist? That they have no validity? I believe in love, in accepting people as they are. I'm glad you draw the line at calling them names though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not sure how to debate this with you (that's it's ok not to be accepting). Is there anything more hateful than to tell another person they basically don't exist? That they have no validity? I believe in love, in accepting people as they are. I'm glad you draw the line at calling them names though. So you accept all people? Does that include murderers, rapists, child molesters? Men/women that are domestic abusers? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Just now, Sam1 Bellisserian said: 4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not sure how to debate this with you (that's it's ok not to be accepting). Is there anything more hateful than to tell another person they basically don't exist? That they have no validity? I believe in love, in accepting people as they are. I'm glad you draw the line at calling them names though. So you accept all people? Does that include murderers, rapists, child molesters? Men/women that are domestic abusers? Please tell me you are not equating those in the LGBTQA+ community with murderers, rapists, and child molesters. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chike Nightingale Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 If someone puts in their profile, 3rd gender/sex, would that generally be understood? 3rd gender/sex is quite common in societies in South Asia and South East Asia and is generally accepted and thought of as "normal". I just researched and discovered it also exists amongst Native Americans - Ethnographic examples [of 'third genders'] can come from distinct societies located in Thailand, Polynesia, Melanesia, Native America, western Africa, and elsewhere and from any point in history, from Ancient Greece to sixteenth-century England to contemporary North America. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirleen Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: When populations who deviate from the norm, sexually, are fully accepted by society (and this comes via education) then feelings will change. When those harboring hatred are instead propped up by institutions in society that have an agenda we won't see a complete acceptance for those who deviate from the norm, or for those who are seen as inferior. Beauty is also a risk factor for hatred and assault because society defines beauty on tv. I've known some guys who develop a nice relationship and then use homophobia as an excuse to gain personal information. When they see the girl they're dating is no beauty queen, they inflate their ego by having another person to look down on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: So you accept all people? Does that include murderers, rapists, child molesters? Men/women that are domestic abusers? This is a false equivalency argument. What happens between consenting adults is not the same as murder, assault, or molestation. Edited August 21, 2023 by Persephone Emerald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, cirleen said: 45 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: When populations who deviate from the norm, sexually, are fully accepted by society (and this comes via education) then feelings will change. When those harboring hatred are instead propped up by institutions in society that have an agenda we won't see a complete acceptance for those who deviate from the norm, or for those who are seen as inferior. Beauty is also a risk factor for hatred and assault because society defines beauty on tv. I've known some guys who develop a nice relationship and then use homophobia as an excuse to gain personal information. When they see the girl they're dating is no beauty queen, they inflate their ego by having another person to look down on. Oh you mean like some have been known to 'play the race card' to gain an advantage you have seen some 'play the gay card' to their advantage? Yes I believe that does happen, but that it's not frequent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: So you accept all people? Does that include murderers, rapists, child molesters? Men/women that are domestic abusers? This is a false equivalency argument. What happens between consenting adults is not the same as murder, assault, or molestation. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I would agree that with some men it's due to feeling deceived and embarrassed, but in other cases it's due to transphobia and/or homophobia. It's both, and doesn't have to be only one or the other. Maybe if I would cite some experiments demonstrating the massive amounts of transphobia and homophobia in existence you could see these cases exist too? It all seems a bit crazy to me. We even have people that deny racism is still in existence, yet I can cite many tests to prove it does. I haven't said there aren't people who are transphobic... at all. I just don't think it's the reasoning behind some reactions. A very good friend of mine in SL has another very good friend in SL who is a trans woman. He still wants to date cis women in SL and RL. I don't think he'd be hostile if it happened that he was dating a trans woman in SL but he'd probably end it not because he fears trans people. He just doesn't want to date them. Edited August 21, 2023 by Rowan Amore 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 38 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: A phobia is a fear. I don't think we should berate people for their fear. I do think education helps to heal fear and that mature, rational people shouldn't attack another person physically or verbally when that person hasn't actually hurt them or threatened them. I think some people get a feeling they don't like - it might be fear or shame - and them blame the other person for this feeling, rather than realizing they created this feeling themself. They might react with anger, when no harm or deception was intended. Their irrational emotions don't make their behavior ok. "That person made me feel weird, insecure, or angry," is not a legitimate excuse to attack them. Fear is a survival instinct that not even humans can live without. When fear kicks in it is fight or flight. I'll leave the adrenaline rush out of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 29 minutes ago, Anthony McGregor said: If someone puts in their profile, 3rd gender/sex, would that generally be understood? 3rd gender/sex is quite common in societies in South Asia and South East Asia and is generally accepted and thought of as "normal". I just researched and discovered it also exists amongst Native Americans - Ethnographic examples [of 'third genders'] can come from distinct societies located in Thailand, Polynesia, Melanesia, Native America, western Africa, and elsewhere and from any point in history, from Ancient Greece to sixteenth-century England to contemporary North America. They're called two spirits and yes, I am First Nations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: A phobia is a fear. I don't think we should berate people for their fear. Yeah I wish the "phobia" could be removed from homophobia and transphobia and replaced with "sexual prejudice", because these negative attitudes toward others aren't always due to the fear you have more compassion for, as do I. "Homophobia and transphobia are two terms that refer to negative attitudes toward homosexual and transsexual people, although these expressions may spark the idea of an irrational fear (fobos) of homosexual and gender-nonconforming people. These terms are related to a wide range of conditions of negative attitudes and behavior toward lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people, “ranging from casual use of pejorative language to aggressive personal attack” (Taylor & Peter, 2011, p. 277). This phenomenon thus involves different aspects: psychological, behavioral, cultural, social, and moral components (Rollè, Garbarini, Gerino, Marino, & Brustia, 2010). Thus, homophobia and transphobia are both phenomena directed against people who challenge the sexual stereotypes commonly accepted by society: In fact, Herek (2004) proposed the use of the expression sexual prejudice, which... " https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-94-007-0753-5_4205 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond Marchant Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Moderator.... please LOCK this thread, as it is inflammatory. To add to the inflammation... All human fetuses start out female and are born naked... (and the rest is drag... ty RuPaul) There is a science of gender. It is not as simple as chromosomal (XX vs XY) determinism or plumbing. In 1663, Galileo was persecuted/prosecuted for saying the earth went around the sun. At the time, it seemed obvious to your average Pope that the sun rose and set everyday, so the sun goes around the earth, that's that. Nobody on this forum has any real data about who is hooking up with who, what each of the participants know or did not know, and how they felt about it. All you have is anecdotes. Everybody should mind their own business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said: Moderator.... please LOCK this thread, as it is inflammatory. To add to the inflammation... All human fetuses start out female and are born naked... (and the rest is drag... ty RuPaul) There is a science of gender. It is not as simple as chromosomal (XX vs XY) determinism or plumbing. In 1663, Galileo was persecuted/prosecuted for saying the earth went around the sun. At the time, it seemed obvious to your average Pope that the sun rose and set everyday, so the sun goes around the earth, that's that. Nobody on this forum has any real data about who is hooking up with who, what each of the participants know or did not know, and how they felt about it. All you have is anecdotes. Everybody should mind their own business. The OP had a question about putting his RL gender in the profiles for his female avatars. Some of us have given our opinions on that, as he asked for opinions. Some people have detoured into related situations that are not relevant to the OP, and which tend to get some folks riled up. What would minding one's own business on a public forum look like? Never responding to posts? Not responding when one feels oneself getting riled up? Or maybe not calling for a thread to be locked just because you don't like some of the opinions being expressed in it? Btw, mammalian fetuses don't all start out female. Their phenotype may look female, but their genotype is usually going to be for a male or female expression. Edited August 21, 2023 by Persephone Emerald Removed extra space at the bottom my post 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalegthepsionicist Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Because they are enraged, thats why. because they think this dude mightbe laugh at them behind keyboard and share the chat among his ftiend. and said, " look this horny dude he not realize engage dude also" every man know other man evil thought . well actually this is his own mistake, get fall in love with avi. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said: Moderator.... please LOCK this thread, as it is inflammatory. To add to the inflammation... All human fetuses start out female and are born naked... (and the rest is drag... ty RuPaul) There is a science of gender. It is not as simple as chromosomal (XX vs XY) determinism or plumbing. In 1663, Galileo was persecuted/prosecuted for saying the earth went around the sun. At the time, it seemed obvious to your average Pope that the sun rose and set everyday, so the sun goes around the earth, that's that. Nobody on this forum has any real data about who is hooking up with who, what each of the participants know or did not know, and how they felt about it. All you have is anecdotes. Everybody should mind their own business. I think we're on the same side here, but please don't bother the moderators. I don't think this thread has gotten out of hand...people have remained civil. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Yeah I wish the "phobia" could be removed from homophobia and transphobia and replaced with "sexual prejudice", because these negative attitudes toward others aren't always due to the fear you have more compassion for, as do I. Considering the definition of phobia, I think the term is appropriate for how some people react: phobia A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion. Any morbid uncontrollable dread or fear. It can often be the case for those who might have been abused in their adolescent years and have not healed from it. The more extreme cases of those who might be termed homophobic or transphobic, I would think fit in that category rather then just someone who one day decides to take on a prejudice towards those who differ in their sexual orientation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: 20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Yeah I wish the "phobia" could be removed from homophobia and transphobia and replaced with "sexual prejudice", because these negative attitudes toward others aren't always due to the fear you have more compassion for, as do I. Considering the definition of phobia, I think the term is appropriate for how some people react: phobia A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion. Any morbid uncontrollable dread or fear. It can often be the case for those who might have been abused in their adolescent years and have not healed from it. The more extreme cases of those who might be termed homophobic or transphobic, I would think fit in that category rather then just someone who one day decides to take on a prejudice towards those who differ in their sexual orientation. For some it does seem phobic, but not all. I can argue against myself and say that all hatred is likely based on fear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: For some it does seem phobic, but not all. I can argue against myself and say that all hatred is likely based on fear. Differing reactions is all. Fear triggers a fight, flight or freeze response in people with a myriad of differing ways that those reactions can manifest. Hard for arm chair warriors to properly judge what is behind every circumstance, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chike Nightingale Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Differing reactions is all. Fear triggers a fight, flight or freeze response in people with a myriad of differing ways that those reactions can manifest. Hard for arm chair warriors to properly judge what is behind every circumstance, There is also the standing on a chair reaction, which is what my friend did the other day, when a huge monitor lizard wandered in to the house! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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