deserted Gorean sims and combat in my time zone

[Persephone Emerald]

39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Looking at the bigger picture though, and why I think LL has failed, is that they believe something will take them to the level of the giant tech companies. They all want that...it seems to almost be bred into them, these leaders of tech companies. In the past they attempted some ridiculous (IMO) things in order to reach for that, wasting a lot of valuable resources and time.

So here we are again...with the mobile stuff?  If it's going to 'save us' I sure can't see how.

One thing that should be obvious is that more people can afford a smart phone than can afford a computer with the graphics expectations that SL currently has. A smart phone also doesn't require people to pay for a good, high speed internet service, which some countries don't even have as an option for all but the biggest cities.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So here we are again...with the mobile stuff?  If it's going to 'save us' I sure can't see how.

Look at today's youth, they use the smartphone as their TV, computer and tablet.
A notebook is only for homework. Games are played on game consoles or the phone.   The latest new supermarket here only exists on the smartphone. One can only order through an android application and then they deliver with an electric van. No physical store, no website.
That is the trend. When it is not on the phone, it doesn't exist.

The only way to have a chance to attract a new generation these days is through the phone IMHO.
If it will succeed and boost SL? 
That will show when it arrives on the market. Companies can try to put new things on the market, but if it becomes a success is in the end not in their hands, but in the hands of the consumers.

Well, everything I've read says PCs aren't becoming extinct anytime soon, even for young people.  PCs still have so many advantages phones don't have.

It make sense that the mobile enhancement could get a few new users we don't have though.

My new PC came stuffed with Xbox games that don't need a console...don't know what that's about or who plays that way.

[Luna Bliss]

I can't imagine wanting to access SL on a phone unless it would be to keep in touch with someone....but most people I'd want to keep in touch with are already on Discord or we chat via email.  Are they planning some kind of chat thing with the phones...or what will these people do actually?

My PC was on its way out, the one I use with my big screen, and I had to use my laptop, and even it with a smaller screen was horrible. I did not feel like I was immersed at all...I just couldn't get into it.

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

A smart phone also doesn't require people to pay for a good, high speed internet service, which some countries don't even have as an option for all but the biggest cities.

Data is expensive so not sure what you mean.

[Casidy Silvercloud]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

The only way to have a chance to attract a new generation these days is through the phone IMHO.
If it will succeed and boost SL? 

I think the mobile viewer's success will depend 100% on whether or not people have to upgrade existing devices to use it. People can say "oh this app works just fine on any device", but more often than not they're wrong, lol. 

We ran into this problem with some apps we had to use for work this past year (I teach, ftr, in case that hasn't been obvious in my posts, lol). It was a new set of apps introduced to help mainstream things and make life easier for us all. It was anything but, it was horrendous. What SHOULD have worked on nearly all devices only partially worked on some, failed entirely on others and rarely ever synced up properly even when it worked. It was just one big ass mess all year long. They asked us to stick it out with them for 3 months while they finished working bugs. 3 turned to 6, 6 to a whole school year and those apps STILL suck dirty behind.  We're not using them this year, we've flat refused. 

 I'm going to bet that a mobile viewer may have some of the same issues, even if the lindens keep saying it won't. It's not uncommon for apps, honestly, it's the biggest problem with many of them. If it does the same, people aren't going to go out and upgrade their device or buy a whole brand ass new one just for sl. Less and less people are upgrading devices in general, because the economy sucks so many places.  SO I do hope it works for more than it doesn't, but I feel bad for those who fall in the "it doesn't work" camp too, especially if the lab is counting on this viewer being a helpful bandaid or solution for sl. 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

I have been reading Making a Metaverse That Matters very slowly and find it to be like a slap-in-the-face-snap-out-of-it. We are tiny compared to Fortnite/Roblox/VRChat and others... for numerous reasons. Linden Lab/Tilia is privately held, meaning that our fate could be an outcome of who Brad Oberwager had dinner with last night. My philosophy is enjoy every day while it lasts. There will be no warning. It will be like the Succession episode where Waystar strips Vaulter for parts.

 

Our very own Thanos.

[Gabriele Graves]

"That?  That was my Gor notification.  Sorry about this everyone, I just need a minute, there's been a panther raid and now all my slave girls are out and running around everywhere.   Please carry on, I'll rejoin the meeting when I've got them back in their cages.  Yes, yes, I definitely think that we might have to tread carefully with the new product marketing campaign as I don't think we want to come across as offensive in any way".

[Love Zhaoying]

18 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

"That?  That was my Gor notification.  Sorry about this everyone, I just need a minute, there's been a panther raid and now all my slave girls are out and running around everywhere.   Please carry on, I'll rejoin the meeting when I've got them back in their cages.  Yes, yes, I definitely think that we might have to tread carefully with the new product marketing campaign as I don't think we want to come across as offensive in any way".

"A panther is like a leopard except it hasn't been peppered should you behold a panther crouch prepare to say ouch better yet, if called by a panther don't anther." - Ogden Nash

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This summer has been brutal.

It's one thing to opine on it being summer and post covid and all so understandable .. but my reading is that should SL fail to uptick after summer (and that uptick is not historically assured), it's in real trouble.

I am truly curious to know, if you have been making similar predictions for the last 20 years about Second Life.

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Mobile will live or die based on how the experience pans out , which honestly, is very much in question.

How much SL is anyone going to get done on a lunch/poop break?

How does SL work with intermittent glances while busy or commuting or at a job?

Mobile will help keep people engaged with SL, though, I think.   

I'm remembering when, ten years ago, I had to spend a lot of time in and out of hospital, and I found myself using that Android app that was available at the time (Lumiya?) a great deal.  I wasn't doing much exploring or clubbing with it, but I was using it to keep up with friends, or just to distract myself watching group chats, and often making arrangements to meet up and do stuff after I got out of hospital/home from outpatient treatment.   

So while I can't see myself doing much in SL during a lunch break or while I'm commuting, I certainly see myself logging in, chatting, and making plans to see friends and do stuff on my PC when I get home.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I am truly curious to know, if you have been making similar predictions for the last 20 years about Second Life.

I've been around that long and haven't ever felt like sl was "in trouble". There just seems to be way less dots on the map frankly. Everywhere. And various communities leaving. 

[diamond Marchant]

38 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I am truly curious to know, if you have been making similar predictions for the last 20 years about Second Life.

Coffee will answer, I am confident, but this is what I see... things got different in the late 20 teens (when alternatives took off) and are really different since 2021, when the original investors exited. It is a financial number game now as SL is not growing concurrent users (and likely revenue). Unfortunately, SL is pursuing a strategy that is not decreasing their expenses... they use Moles to build content and do stuff rather than invest only in the platform and let residents generate ALL the content. And the price of having a data center in cloud is actually going UP, sort of a Moore's Law paradox.

And there is the staffing issue. If you are someone who knows how to turn a 20 year old sandbox game with near photorealistic graphics, no mission, a small user base, and no gaming platform... into a huge phoenix-like success... why would you not get your own funding and equity and do a new startup.

Edited July 29, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Casidy Silvercloud]

30 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Mobile will help keep people engaged with SL, though, I think.   

I think it can too, or will, as long as it's done right and expectations for use and what it's capable of are tolerant of the potentials for problems. 

I wonder if it will help bring people back for GOR though, and help keep sims with people. Maybe it will just help people stay engaged when being at an actual computer isn't possible. I don't know that it will bring in new people but it might help new people already interested in sl stay longer. 

[Love Zhaoying]

31 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

why would you not get your own funding and equity and do a new startup.

That sounds like SANSAR.

[Love Zhaoying]

39 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I've been around that long and haven't ever felt like sl was "in trouble". There just seems to be way less dots on the map frankly. Everywhere. And various communities leaving. 

Reading between the lines, so long as the money keeps coming in (whether Tier fees, L$ transactions, etc.) then it's not really "trouble".

50 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Mobile will help keep people engaged with SL, though, I think.   

I totally agree and we've had many posts about the positive hope for this.

ETA: I think we all have our own Crystal Balls - if we knew what was going to happen, we would have either invested heavily in Second Life years ago, or divested from it completely by now - depending on our postive or negative predictions.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Coffee Pancake]

20 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

why would you not get your own funding and equity and do a new startup.

Access to such funding is a rare privilege, unlikely to be something anyone invested in this platform as a user will ever be able to obtain.

Any attempt to rejuvenate this place must start by answering one simple premise; Given the range of available options for creating and publishing suitable content, why should anyone (hobbyist or professional or studio) chose to do it here and what prevents them from doing so already.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

ETA: I think we all have our own Crystal Balls - if we knew what was going to happen, we would have either invested heavily in Second Life years ago, or divested from it completely by now - depending on our postive or negative predictions.

Adding an ETA2 instead of editing:  Obviously both "It will FAIL!!!" and "It will be OK!!!" can't both be true.  Since LL keeps investing in SL (whether or not you agree with the investments), the LL's only "crystal ball" must say "It will be OK!!" or they would not keep investing.

The "On-Topic" part of all this is:  if Gore "mostly left" a long time ago - and everything seems "ok" - the sky did not fall - then it will probably continue to be "OK!!!" since / whether or not Gore "mostly left" a long time ago.  The fact Gore "mostly left" a long time ago does not mean the sky is falling NOW.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Reading between the lines, so long as the money keeps coming in (whether Tier fees, L$ transactions, etc.) then it's not really "trouble".

Because its a social place and if there isn't anyone to socialize with... 

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Because its a social place and if there isn't anyone to socialize with... 

Now you see, if Goreans were SMART, they would have built a Social Casino..

Edited July 29, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Hunny Bunny]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

LL's only "crystal ball" must say "It will be OK!!" or they would not keep investing.

IIRC they weren't investing in it till their golden goose laid a rotten egg.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

why would you not get your own funding and equity and do a new startup.

Serious answer? For the same reason that Philip the Irrelevant talked a friend into giving him a consulting job here, instead of trying to push his own failed SL-Replacement-Wannabe "Lo-Fidelity".

Creating a "Like SL but better and more modern" from scratch would cost an arm and a leg, several arms and legs in fact, then even when you have your "Like SL but better and more modern" server and Client, there's the setup costs, you can't just rent a server box, and fire up 4 regions, and say "we'll rent another server if more than 20 people ever show up".

You need to PAY even more arms and legs to build a whole server farm with enough capacity for 10's of thousands of users, right from Day 1.

The people who have the cash to lend for that sort of project, are serious people, who want serious return on their investment, they will only lend you *cough* million dollars, if you can convince them that you can repay *cough million dollars, and an additional *cough* million dollars in interest, with in *cough* years, without fail.

Problem with that is, the demand for a SL type product is currently being fully met by... SL

So you need to find a way to convince all the Secondlifers to abandon SL, and their 5/10/15/20 year investment in stuff, and start over again from scratch in your "Spamlet Doh Blog Spamming Anti-SL Whiner and Failed Author Wannabe" approved Metacrap-Does-Not-And-Will-Not-Exist-i-Verse-That-Matters "WhateverWorld", and convince them to transfer and spend fast enough that you can repay the serious money lenders serious demands for profits, before they foreclose and sell your new tech to the Zuckborg.

That is basically impossible, people won't leave here where they have loads of stuff, for there where they have nothing and it will be 5/10/15/20 years before all the stuff they have here exists there.

 

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That sounds like SANSAR.

Exactly, that is why Sansar failed.

"Abandon your house your name your cash balance, and all your stuff for an empty world that has nothing you want and won't for many years to come, it will be great 20 years from now wait and see!"

"I'll be dead in 20 years, and I like my house, and clothes, and friends, and everything I have here, you can keep Suck-World of Emptyness, we ain't leaving"

"But... But... Hideously Expensive World of VR Clueless Badly Designed Futureness! How can you say Oh Hell No to that? "

 

The Gor types pushed off to Conan-world because it had what they wanted already, swords, bows, forts, and all it needed was some mods to add the R*pe-Torture- to the Kill, and Slave Girl Collars and boom, viable alternative for little setup cost.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[diamond Marchant]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Access to such funding is a rare privilege, unlikely to be something anyone invested in this platform as a user will ever be able to obtain

I agree with your point about creators.

My point concerns Linden Lab employees and contractors. Is there someone  currently at Linden Lab that knows how to move the needle from 40,000 concurrent users per day to 4 million? Would such a person be working as a contractor or as a salaried employee with a dubious equity position? Jumping to a company with better prospects and/or seeking venture/angel capital for a startup is what (younger, non risk-averse) people do. As they say in Silicon Valley and Mandalore, "This is the way".

[Randall Ahren]

21 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Is there someone  currently at Linden Lab that knows how to move the needle from 40,000 concurrent users per day to 4 million? Would such a person be working as a contractor or as a salaried employee with a dubious equity position?

Yes, it's the person that recommended reviving the mentor program.

[Coffee Pancake]

16 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I agree with your point about creators.

My point concerns Linden Lab employees and contractors. Is there someone  currently at Linden Lab that knows how to move the needle from 40,000 concurrent users per day to 4 million?

Would such a person even be recognized and listened to.

[Arielle Popstar]

The lab makes its money from regions rented, not greater concurrency. Concurrency only results in greater expense in bandwidth and CPU cycles.