A new dawn for SL streamers? (Kick.com)

[xDancingStarx]

[Disclaimer: the general forums are supposed to be discussions about Second Life related topics only. This topic is supposed to look at the current and future situation of SL streamers and not only at the streaming site mentioned in the title]

Since SL is banned on Twitch, there is not much exposure for people wanting to stream Second Life. Sure, you can go live on YouTube, but nobody is going to see you since the whole YouTube live streaming eco system just doesn't exist.

This may be changing if Kick.com is going to start off. Kick.com is basically a Twitch clone that seems to make their money for the most part with shady (my interpretation) casino streams, and regulation seems to be way less strict compared to Twitch. The size of Kick.com currently is tiny and compared to Twitch it's irrelevant as of today.

However, it has gained some traction in recent time. First, Twitch got people pis**d by introducing several sets of TOS changes, for example disallowing streamers to broadcast their streams to multiple platforms at the same time, or introducing extremely restrictive ad rules that would, for example, disallow ads that are burned into their streams. After a huge uproar in the community Twitch stepped back from many of these, but it kept bringing Kick.com as an alternative to Twitch into the conversation. These conversations are currently getting more and more since Kick.com just signed (non exclusive) contracts with huge live streamers. Now we know from the past that just signing a few contracts with big streamers isn't a guarantee for success, proven by facebook and Microsoft (mixer). Question is if there is going to be enough of these in order to make the site grow naturally. The current advantages that I see are a) it's a Twitch clone so the layout has proven successful and b) it's way less deregulated.

For anyone wanting to stream SL this could be a huge opportunity in the making if their only current option is to stream inside of a non existing YouTube live streaming eco system.

If I've missed any current SL streaming opportunities that are currently being used regularly apart from YouTube I'd like to hear about them!

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

Kick does have categories for SL as I found a couple people streaming stuff from Second Life.

Twitch prohibits SL claiming it's due to adult things in SL. I don't know if the top brass at Twitch, which is owned by Amazon knows, but Second Life does have many musicians that would like to do full simulcasts into Twitch.  Funny thing Twitch is owned by Amazon --- who also owns the AWS servers that Linden Lab leases for SL.  I think the Lab should approach Twitch and work out something so the performers can do their thing - but if adult stuff is shown, like by non-musicians, kick those. Heck Twitch does allow the hot-tub shows.  Allow SL too.

[animats]

There's a little SL content: https://kick.com/categories/games/second-life

There's someone playing one of those boring in-world fishing games. There are people running on treadmills. There's a helicopter flight. There's some poor sex stuff.

Someone, please post some better SL videos. Thank you.

[ValKalAstra]

No, kick is not an alternative. It's the temper tantrum of a big player in online casinos (stake).

They've previously used twitch to heavily advertise gambling to actual children and when Twitch had a rare moment of conscience and banned gambling content, along came kick.

Kick suddenly started throwing millions of dollars at streamers and posed as an alternative. While kick doesn't disclose who owns it, yah it's got stake written all over it and it's no surprise the site heavily promote gambling.

I wouldn't want SL anywhere near that place. It's bad energy.

 

[animats]

2 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said:

I wouldn't want SL anywhere near that place. It's bad energy.

You're probably right.

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said:

No, kick is not an alternative. It's the temper tantrum of a big player in online casinos (stake).

They've previously used twitch to heavily advertise gambling to actual children and when Twitch had a rare moment of conscience and banned gambling content, along came kick.

Kick suddenly started throwing millions of dollars at streamers and posed as an alternative. While kick doesn't disclose who owns it, yah it's got stake written all over it and it's no surprise the site heavily promote gambling.

I wouldn't want SL anywhere near that place. It's bad energy.

 

Ironic, now that we've got the Official Social Casino!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Exactly what ValKalAstra said.

I'd recommend against streaming on Kick if the goal is to be taken seriously at all. Problematic funding and drama aside, it's got a pretty terrible reputation in some of the larger gaming/chatting communities on Twitch. In other words - some professional streamers are actively avoiding going there, for reasons I won't get into. Let's just say some of the platform's loudest streamers are quite notorious for awfulness. They trend on social media constantly, and it's rarely for anything good. Some absolutely do love that chaos for sure and are leaving Twitch for Kick, but if the goal is to stream to earn a stable living or build a brand instead of just reveling in drama, it doesn't seem worth it. Also, if you aren't already a big name, it'll take quite a bit to build a community there (and good luck moderating it). Their newest deal will inevitably mean the top streamer streams 2+ hours on Twitch to gather the views, then ushers his community off to Kick for the rest of the day.

Oh and speaking of moderation, Kick needs that in a big way. The "anything goes" environment and current round of content is terrible for attracting serious advertisers. Due to all that, it doesn't seem sustainable over the long-term as the platform itself is not exactly making money. Etc. etc. Too many issues to list. If they clean it up and get serious, it might be a worthy Twitch rival eventually. Big if.

Right now, there aren't any serious streaming alternatives for Second Life streamers. YouTube is probably it, but its streaming scene is pretty grim. Sure, they've got DrLupo and whatnot, but no real discovery or promo system for the smaller streamers. I find streams there entirely by accident. Unless you're a very big name in the Twitch space and make a public move to YouTube to stream Second Life, it'll be a rough venture.

I'd recommend sticking with posting regular videos on YouTube if someone's looking to monetize their SL experience and/or knowledge. For now, anyway.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I'd recommend sticking with posting regular videos on YouTube if someone's looking to monetize their SL experience and/or knowledge. For now, anyway.

Pardon my dumb, but is it "ok" to post videos of Second Life stuffs on YouTube if you have any shown avatar's permissions?

I assume it is OK based on previous posts of YT videos, but I figure it never hurts to ask when you're dumb like me.  (Being ignant hurts more than asking.)

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Pardon my dumb, but is it "ok" to post videos of Second Life stuffs on YouTube if you have any shown avatar's permissions?

I assume it is OK based on previous posts of YT videos, but I figure it never hurts to ask when you're dumb like me.  (Being ignant hurts more than asking.)

You'd have to ask some Second Life content creators or maybe peek at the TOS. I'm a daily Twitch viewer in a bunch of different communities and unfortunately, I'm way too familiar with the streaming scene and drama within it in general as a result, but I know nothing about actual in-world video content creation and the rules that govern such between SL & YouTube.

I think there's a section in there that covers SL and machinima. There are a ton of SL videos on YouTube (shopping hauls, event coverage, how-tos, building vids, avatar vids, etc.) so one of them would know way more than meeeee.

[Stephanie Misfit]

2 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Heck Twitch does allow the hot-tub shows.  Allow SL too.

Yeah, I was watching Diablo 4 streams the other day, and one woman streamer had her legs spread and her panties were completely see-through. And they are worried about SL? Just put restrictions on the sort of content that can be streamed from it, and maybe they should clean up what their existing streamers are doing at the same time, Twitch's reputation already sucks and it is hard for women to be taken seriously on that platform when it is expected they will perform for the male gaze to get views, meanwhile guys can get a following just by playing games.

[Love Zhaoying]

Is kick for "live streaming" or not? I mostly see posts about uploaded / uploading Second Life videos.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Ayashe Ninetails]

45 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Yeah, I was watching Diablo 4 streams the other day, and one woman streamer had her legs spread and her panties were completely see-through. And they are worried about SL? Just put restrictions on the sort of content that can be streamed from it, and maybe they should clean up what their existing streamers are doing at the same time, Twitch's reputation already sucks and it is hard for women to be taken seriously on that platform when it is expected they will perform for the male gaze to get views, meanwhile guys can get a following just by playing games.

A good number of the streamers I follow/watch on Twitch are female gamers (some in the 40+ age range) who wouldn't jump into a hot tub if you paid them a fortune. Some are cozy gamers, some are in the BR/Fortnite competitive circuit, some in the horror realm, some do a mix between Just Chatting and gaming, so it's definitely not all terrible on there. I do agree with you, though, that Twitch has massive issues of its own and yeah, overall, it's not the best place for female streamers in general. There's so much stuff they need to clean up on their end, but I'd imagine it'd be even worse for them over on Kick, where moderation doesn't exist at all.

The entire industry needs an overhaul, honestly, but that's a whoooole other topic. As for Second Life not being allowed on Twitch, you should see where it falls in their long list of other banned games. Not a good look AT ALL. Not sure if LL could get themselves off that list ever but, um, they really ought to try. 😳

[Blaise Glendevon]

Isn't Kick just the Gab or BitChute of gaming? Everything I've heard about it is that it's just man babies complaining that Twitch infringed on their freeze peach except what really got them banned was flagrant abuse of the terms of service.

[xDancingStarx]

17 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is kick for "live streaming" or not? I mostly see posts about uploaded / uploading Second Life videos.

It's for live streaming. Since it's a Twitch clone, you have the opportunity to watch their VODs when somebody is not currently streaming, which can be recent broadcasts (reruns) or clips. Neither are uploaded but taken from live streams.

[WereBeast Alpha]

Kick is pretty decent more better than Twitch or even youtube for payouts and other things. The only issue I have with Kick is that XQC got paid 100 million dollars to stream on the website and the whole website went down because the streamer has a lot of followers. I wouldn't stream SL content anyways because you never know when a minor is watching your stream and sees adult content going on. Not many parents parent these days so that would be a problem. Hence why I am on the fence about streaming online these days. 

[DemonicSage]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:58 PM, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Exactly what ValKalAstra said.

I'd recommend against streaming on Kick if the goal is to be taken seriously at all. Problematic funding and drama aside, it's got a pretty terrible reputation in some of the larger gaming/chatting communities on Twitch. In other words - some professional streamers are actively avoiding going there, for reasons I won't get into. Let's just say some of the platform's loudest streamers are quite notorious for awfulness. They trend on social media constantly, and it's rarely for anything good. Some absolutely do love that chaos for sure and are leaving Twitch for Kick, but if the goal is to stream to earn a stable living or build a brand instead of just reveling in drama, it doesn't seem worth it. Also, if you aren't already a big name, it'll take quite a bit to build a community there (and good luck moderating it). Their newest deal will inevitably mean the top streamer streams 2+ hours on Twitch to gather the views, then ushers his community off to Kick for the rest of the day.

Oh and speaking of moderation, Kick needs that in a big way. The "anything goes" environment and current round of content is terrible for attracting serious advertisers. Due to all that, it doesn't seem sustainable over the long-term as the platform itself is not exactly making money. Etc. etc. Too many issues to list. If they clean it up and get serious, it might be a worthy Twitch rival eventually. Big if.

Right now, there aren't any serious streaming alternatives for Second Life streamers. YouTube is probably it, but its streaming scene is pretty grim. Sure, they've got DrLupo and whatnot, but no real discovery or promo system for the smaller streamers. I find streams there entirely by accident. Unless you're a very big name in the Twitch space and make a public move to YouTube to stream Second Life, it'll be a rough venture.

I'd recommend sticking with posting regular videos on YouTube if someone's looking to monetize their SL experience and/or knowledge. For now, anyway.

honestly Kick is a good platform I wouldn't really say its shady. its pretty transparent in how they deal with streamers even from low to high tier streamers. they have a paid program for newer to more vet streamers. so how it works is as long as you stream more than 1 hour a day and have more than 5 viewers per day with at least min 5 subscribers per day. you can get the paid by hour program which currently in per hour USD is $16.00 per hour. May I mention that there are stream on twitch that bypass the gambling rule ninja and other streamers do gamble and have seen some that still do to this day as twitch allows these big time streamers get away with. secondly kick is a great start in the right direction which is to cater to the gaming community and not be amazon and treat streamers like toys rather than human beings i seen many bad sides of twitch and simping that makes me cringe at the thought. i mean yeah new platform and lesser rules to worry about but if we all pitch in and provide detailed feedback we could be looking at a new age of streaming and a new age of what twitch should of been from the start minus the MOD TWITCH TEAM OF SIMPS. not trying to say supporting twitch is wrong more over that twitch is a bygone age where  professional to small time streamers had a voice . 

Edited July 16, 2023 by DemonicSage

[Shan Warrior]

First off as a live streamer any opportunity to share SL experiences should be explored. As one of the OG SL this place used to be full of gambling and was a viable way to make a living. Yes those days are gone but as a club owner and long long time SL citizen, If I can bring some attention to SL 100% do it. The fact that no one is putting down Twitch for their unfair classification of Secondlife not to mention the unfair wage split Twitch gives to streamers. More competition makes better deals. There is nothing stopping us from streaming on Kick and they even have a category so people can find it. If violent video games are allowed SL should be too.  Streaming on other platforms that will allow it is freedom of speech 

[Randall Ahren]

2 hours ago, Shan Warrior said:

If I can bring some attention to SL 100% do it.

SL is boring though. What could you stream from SL that would be worthwhile watching?

[Orwar]

53 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

SL is boring though.

   You're doing it wrong.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Randall Ahren said:

SL is boring though. What could you stream from SL that would be worthwhile watching?

There are people who live stream SL on YouTube. Examples: Lab Gab, Meet the Moles, people who go to shopping events and comment on them, live musicians.

[Randall Ahren]

44 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

There are people who live stream SL on YouTube. Examples: Lab Gab, Meet the Moles, people who go to shopping events and comment on them, live musicians.

If someone is interested in Lab Gab or Meet the Moles, they will watch the video provide directly from SL w/o going through a streamer. And shopping events would be terrible to stream, nothing but lag and floating body parts. Streams are normally of something in real time with fast action requiring quick reflexes like a Fortnite game or bullet chess.

[Rowan Amore]

10 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

I'm boring though. What could you stream from SL that would be worthwhile watching?

FIFY

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

10 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

I'm boring though. What could you stream from SL that would be worthwhile watching?

FIFY

People will stream ANYTHING if they can see the actual person streaming, and if the person is sufficiently hot and/or ridiculous!

..from what I understand..

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

People will stream ANYTHING if they can see the actual person streaming, and if the person is sufficiently hot and/or ridiculous!

..from what I understand..

True but boring people seem to find everything else boring as well.  Constant complaining and negativity is a warning sign that one just might be a boring person.

I'm never bored especially in SL.  If, for whatever reason, I can't find something to keep my interest on occasion, I log out and do something else.  Watching videos, in general, is not something I do, though unless it's cute cat ones.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

True but boring people seem to find everything else boring as well.  Constant complaining and negativity is a warning sign that one just might be a boring person.

I'm never bored especially in SL.  If, for whatever reason, I can't find something to keep my interest on occasion, I log out and do something else.  Watching videos, in general, is not something I do, though unless it's cute cat ones.

I have a saying, "Bored people are boring."