Why Is Mainland With Water Side So Spendy?

[xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane]

Just like the title says can someone please humor me and explain to me why prices are so high on Mainland water areas, all of you have been very good to me answering my posts and I appreciate it but am I missing something $3,000... in real life to get something smaller than what I currently have at 8192m, like is second life bigger than I can imagine? I'm extremely bummed because I want to sell my property and get something with the ocean but there is no way that I'm going to spend $500 a $1,000 $3,000 on a property in second life.. 

[Eddy Vortex]

My best guess is high demand.

[Rowan Amore]

There's less coast than inland just as in RL.  Ocean front property is expensive in both worlds.  People who like sailing like spots on the water to park their boats.  No one can build on the protected ocean side of your land.   There are a myriad of reasons why.  

People also pay a premium.price.for double.prim mainland.  There are 1024 parcels in Horizons for sale between 135000L - 500000L.

[belindacarson]

Because people are daft enough to pay those silly prices instead of just looking for abandoned land to buy for 1l$ a metre.

 

There are dozens of rezzing areas in the blake sea and other ocean Sims, some adjoining land so it's not like there's nowhere to rez your boats for sailing.

[Qie Niangao]

Sailing is fun and even though I don't spend much time doing it, I definitely appreciate the appeal of sailing from one's own land (or merely the option of doing so), compared to needing to first teleport to some remote rez area. Sure, it's the same sailing, but SL sailing is an exercise in social imagination anyway—it's not, like, the world's best boat simulator or anything—so it's all pretense.

Linden water is pretty. Supposedly, come PBR, it will be very slightly less pretty for those who already run the viewer with all features at max, but with significantly reduced lag (which has been a real disadvantage of waterfront until now). Personally running the PBR project viewer I don't notice the difference either way, but I never noticed rendering lag before and I'm not super attuned to subtle changes in appearance.

Having that protected side is definitely valuable, as Rowan says, and fronting on protected water is particularly valuable if that water goes out to the end of the world: nobody will ever build an eyesore anywhere in sight in that direction.

Also, the excessive cost is, to a degree, its own advantage. Now, there are plenty of Mainland owners with more money than sense, so they'll buy waterfront at any price and dump garbage all over it, but usually those willing to spend the high price for nice Mainland waterfront will treat it with some respect for its value. Again, it's still Mainland so my next neighbor may build an aggressively offensive eyesore, but when I cruise the coasts of the Atoll I find long stretches unmarred by blatant ugliness. That's more true of waterfront than roadside, it seems.

[Harper Held]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

 Again, it's still Mainland so my next neighbor may build an aggressively offensive eyesore,

[Ceka Cianci]

If you aren't already, you could just spend around 100.00 a year and become a premium member and get a linden home perk and move into a boat house or one of the stick homes that is on the water and keep the land you have now..

I have a 1/4 of a sim plus one of the 1024 linden home boat houses.. My linden home is like my boating spot that I go to when i want to take my boat out and my 1/4 sim is where I spend most of my time.. It's kind of nice really.. hehehe

 

[AmeliaJ08]

I have sold coastal/sea access parcels for a lot less than that on SL, like significantly less.

 

They come up in the auctions from time to time too, just take a look. They're not that valuable. Exception to this might be some Blake Sea access parcels but you're still not paying anything close to $5k.

 

[AmeliaJ08]

3 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If you aren't already, you could just spend around 100.00 a year and become a premium member and get a linden home perk and move into a boat house or one of the stick homes that is on the water and keep the land you have now..

I have a 1/4 of a sim plus one of the 1024 linden home boat houses.. My linden home is like my boating spot that I go to when i want to take my boat out and my 1/4 sim is where I spend most of my time.. It's kind of nice really.. hehehe

 

Yeah and now since Belliseria is linked to the mainland it's even better, can go on very long journeys in a boat.

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:30 AM, AmeliaJ08 said:

Exception to this might be some Blake Sea access parcels but you're still not paying anything close to $5k.

Umm, I've seen  Blake parcels listed at 1.5 MILLION Linden. That's the equivalent of more than US$6,000.

[cambriagrisham]

On 6/3/2023 at 6:40 PM, xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchild said:

Just like the title says can someone please humor me and explain to me why prices are so high on Mainland water areas, all of you have been very good to me answering my posts and I appreciate it but am I missing something $3,000... in real life to get something smaller than what I currently have at 8192m, like is second life bigger than I can imagine? I'm extremely bummed because I want to sell my property and get something with the ocean but there is no way that I'm going to spend $500 a $1,000 $3,000 on a property in second life.. 

 

[xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane]

I just wanted to hop in here the last time I didn't say anything people were trying to call me out by saying that my just here to get a rise out of people no it was the weekend and for my sanity and my mental health I decided to step away from the computer

 

Listen I made this post because like I'm kind of devastated you know maybe it doesn't make sense to you but it makes sense to me I'm a little bit mad at both you the people but also second life as well first of all you the people have taken advantage of regular consumers like me fine eating up all the property that you can find and then you label yourself as a reseller and then you flip it for a decent profit like I know I've done my research you can cash out on in game currency

 

You know I was looking at some land Seaside and realize there's two different versions of the sea you have the infinite sea and then you have salable sea, it doesn't matter which one it is I went to a property that had salable and it was only 1024 m and the girl wanted $400 in real life for it like are you kidding me right now and before anybody starts getting upset that I'm pointing you guys out it is ridiculous because some of you not all of you are taking advantage of a situation and all I wanted to do was just own a little piece of property so I can deploy My Yacht and go surfing but no I have to give an arm and a leg to you greedy little Sons of Guns

 

Let me remind you really quick 1024 m is nothing I might as well just go get a freaking Linden home because let me tell you you need prims to place objects down the smaller the property the less primes you get the bigger the property the more primes you get so you're telling me that the reason why you're going to charge me $400 in real life is because of supply and demand no this community is screwed up man you're not going to sit here and tell me it's supply and demand when you damn well know you're over inflating everything because you can you're screwing everybody and furthermore it's funny how it's supply and demand when all I see is property for sale the joke's on everybody who buys up these properties and things are going to get $4,000 from it

 

If you dare tell me that you had somebody spend $4,000 you need to freaking be put out the pasture and get off second life because that's freaking screwed nothing in second life has a value just like real life everybody thinks something is valuable and they'll label price on it according to what they find it to be worth

 

Now I'm also mad at Second Life because of the fact that upon looking at the map there's plenty of infinite sea but where is the sailable ocean?? You take a good close look at that map and there's a nice big old chunk of a smooth Square telling you that that is not salable if second life would open up more areas for you to obtain areas where you can actually explore the ocean without putting a no travel zone right there I don't see the issue I think everybody would be happy but they've made it so freaking collectible now we find ourselves in the spot where everybody's got a hog up whatever Land There is left and overinflated because they are greedy

 

I'm going to ignore any negative comments because I believe I'm strongly in the right frame of mind and saying what needs to be said it's nothing but greed and I am mad because I am spending a year and a half and second life lot of money a premium plus user and all I wanted was a piece of property to just enjoy the game or whatever you want to call it and if anybody has anything negative to say you're not going to hear back from me because I'm not here to argue I'm just I finally found something that I really enjoy and it's been ruined by greed and stupid people who just do not care this is not me being an ***** this is me being understanding and putting my voice out there and saying hey this sucks and it needs to change so both second life and the people of Second Life are at fault, thank you for listening to my little rant

[xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane]

31 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Umm, I've seen  Blake parcels listed at 1.5 MILLION Linden. That's the equivalent of more than US$6,000.

I would also like to add really quick that I asked the reseller to give me one good explanation to why they jacked up the price to about $400 in real life for 1024 m piece of land Oceanside and they basically replied back saying that it was already expensive when they bought it but it's funny because I replied back honestly that's a personal problem nobody forced you to pay that much for that property and now you're just passing it on to the next person nobody can give me a logical explanation why it is that expensive to own a piece of digital land this is reminding me of the freaking nfts, nobody can give me a good explanation of why it's so damn expensive besides that it is supply and demand and I'm not going to take that as an answer there is no reason why a piece of land should be over $6,000 in a virtual members second life is good but it ain't that freaking good and you're telling me that is not for profit if I pay you $6,000 of in-game currency minus the percent that Governor Linden is going to take out you're walking away with just about $5,000 I mean come on that's the biggest freaking scam that I've ever seen land and second life costs nothing it's the amount of value that a person thinks it is worth.

[Rowan Amore]

I paid about $300 for my Horizons 1024 parcel Nov. 2020.  Previously, I'd always rented on private estates as I've never cared to live in the Linden allotments.  Also, it's double prims so I get 703 instead of the usual 351.  I always rented parcels larger than 1024.  Over the almost 3 years, I've more than saved in rent what I initially paid for the parcel.  With that said, I'm not interested in waterfront but if I were and planned to keep what I bought, the initial investment CAN pay for itself over time.  It's a choice I made at the time.  

No one NEEDS land in SL.  Those who can afford it, buy vast amounts of it.  I wish I could.    

Edited June 5, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Katherine Heartsong]

I'm not arguing with you at all. I think virtual land prices when translated back to real-world currency can be silly as heck. It's 0s and 1s.

That said, people pay what they're willing to pay I guess. The land is only as valuable as the buyer and seller agree it is. Land flipping and speculative buying among real estate companies happens all the time here, and I'm pretty sure it's been happening for all of the 20 years. I sell for 5K Linden, you pass it along for 7.5, the next purchaser marks it up to 10K, etc. I was happy with 5K and never concern myself again if someone simply flips and jacks the price up.

Like one of my RL friend's dads once said when selling his home .. I don't care if the next owners paint the whole house pink or knock it down and build a mansion. I got my money from the deal.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Qie Niangao]

If somebody wants something so badly they get angry because it's expensive… that anger? That's demand. The greater the anger, the greater the demand.

It's not spite nor laziness that keeps non-sailable "water" from being sailable. Rather, it's empty because Linden Lab must pay a substantial fee to AWS each month a 256mx256m region is populated anywhere on the grid. Sailable water is populated that way. Non-sailable water isn't: there's literally no there there, just a geometric abstraction. Sailable water, though, is forty frames a second of simulation, all month, every month it's sailable. It has to pay for itself somehow.

Some SL mainland is indeed priced at absurd levels (often with no intention of it ever selling) but if land sells, its price is what the market will bear. Everybody knows it could all go "poof" tomorrow, regardless of what we pay.

You want to sell your existing property and get waterfront. Well, you're not alone. A whole lot of Mainland is worth literally nothing and sits vacant with nobody interested enough to even ask for a piece. In contrast, there are enough people who want waterfront—same as you do—that the relatively rare good parts cost a lot. That's how markets work.

You're "going to ignore any negative comments" and I'm sure you consider this negative. That's unfortunate but I don't see anything to be done about it. Sometimes the truth is hard.

[xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

If somebody wants something so badly they get angry because it's expensive… that anger? That's demand. The greater the anger, the greater the demand.

It's not spite nor laziness that keeps non-sailable "water" from being sailable. Rather, it's empty because Linden Lab must pay a substantial fee to AWS each month a 256mx256m region is populated anywhere on the grid. Sailable water is populated that way. Non-sailable water isn't: there's literally no there there, just a geometric abstraction. Sailable water, though, is forty frames a second of simulation, all month, every month it's sailable. It has to pay for itself somehow.

Some SL mainland is indeed priced at absurd levels (often with no intention of it ever selling) but if land sells, its price is what the market will bear. Everybody knows it could all go "poof" tomorrow, regardless of what we pay.

You want to sell your existing property and get waterfront. Well, you're not alone. A whole lot of Mainland is worth literally nothing and sits vacant with nobody interested enough to even ask for a piece. In contrast, there are enough people who want waterfront—same as you do—that the relatively rare good parts cost a lot. That's how markets work.

You're "going to ignore any negative comments" and I'm sure you consider this negative. That's unfortunate but I don't see anything to be done about it. Sometimes the truth is hard.

No I don't see it as a negative comment in fact I saw it as an educational comment because that's why I made the post I basically asked the community why and I got many answers but I would say this is basically the most informative answer that could be commented for me it's all about a learning process and you know I apologize if my comments came off as aggressive or angry but up until you said something I was unaware of how that works again that's why I posted this is to get answers this is a community after all this is what this website is for so I very much appreciate the answers that everybody has put down an educated me on little by little how things work I guess you can say that I was uneducated and seeking answers is what I was out for, so thank you for telling me about all that the past few comments really did help 💜

[Sid Nagy]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:40 AM, xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchild said:

Just like the title says can someone please humor me and explain to me why prices are so high on Mainland water areas, all of you have been very good to me answering my posts and I appreciate it but am I missing something $3,000... in real life to get something smaller than what I currently have at 8192m, like is second life bigger than I can imagine? I'm extremely bummed because I want to sell my property and get something with the ocean but there is no way that I'm going to spend $500 a $1,000 $3,000 on a property in second life.. 

People who don't really want to sell just slam a huge price ticket on their land. If someone is that desperate for it and shells out such an amount, they go to their bank laughing all the way.
And some mainland like around the Blake Sea and double prim plots come with an in my opinion vanity surcharge.
If you only need a rez place for your boat, you might be cheaper off with a stilt home or a house boat in Bellisseria and if you need more land, buy a chunk of private land or 1L$/m land on mainland somewhere far apart from the IMHO snobbish prized parcels.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Maitimo]

On 6/5/2023 at 6:05 PM, Katherine Heartsong said:

Umm, I've seen  Blake parcels listed at 1.5 MILLION Linden. That's the equivalent of more than US$6,000.

Parcels listed at prices like that are usually actually for rent, not sale. It's a tactic to get the available rental to show up on the map without risking that anyone will actually buy it.

[Sorina Garrigus]

For the same reason it is in real life. people want beach front property. And people want to sail their boats in Linden oceans etc. 

[xDancingStarx]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:03 PM, Katherine Heartsong said:

The land is only as valuable as the buyer and seller agree it is.

The land is only valuable because it is artificially made it sparse. Explain to someone who is not looking at it through the eyes of years of SL experience why there just isn't sailable ocean everywhere. Why are there just tiny protected stripes of water channels along coasts? Most of us have probably accepted it because we don't know it any different, but this just doesn't make sense. Because nobody could figure out a cost efficient way to spin up ocean sims that are 98% of the time empty? Not making sense..

Edited June 8, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[Katherine Heartsong]

Sparse/scarcity is one possibility, yes, and in classic economic theory that does supposedly drive pricing. Quantitative ideas like this always break down in the real world, however, due to a variety of factors*

Humans are not rational actors and make purchasing decisions based on emotional and non-quantifiable factors all the time. Whether that's misinformation, lack of information, deliberate manipulation of emotions, etc. It always boils down to the humans though.

If we both agree a prime waterfront parcel is worth a single Linden, 1L, that's what it's worth, scarcity be darned. It could be the most rare/prime piece of land in all SL, does not matter.  However, If you claim it's worth 50,000 and I say 1,000, we won't agree and no sale. If I see a price that's too high for me to pay for any good/service, no sale. 

Price of a good/service in a negotiation always boils down to human interests, that might be affected by things like scarcity, but often aren't. Major corporations that sell things to consumers (B2C) don't hire armies of PhDs in psychology to help determine retail pricing

*One example ... digital books. The publishers keep the prices wildly artificially inflated and limit library systems ability to loan hundreds at a time not due to scarcity at all.

And there's not salable oceans everywhere because each 256x256 sim requires computing power to create/run/render, even if no one inhabits it and it's nothing but a plane of empty water and a sandy bottom. Financial decision, not a scarcity decision.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Sorina Garrigus]

On 6/3/2023 at 6:41 PM, Eddy Vortex said:

My best guess is high demand.

and low supply ... it's a thing.

[Istelathis]

You can find it cheap if you look around for long enough, but a lot of the time it is wedged into spots where there are properties on the water in front of you and you need to use a viewer that derenders all of the houses sitting on their artificial islands and trying to navigate to any sailable area is impossible.  Waterfront property as others have said, is just in high demand and priced to match.  Personally, I just use opensim and have regions upon regions of water with a mixture of islands to sail around in and use that when I want a SL like experience with my own costal properties, no zero second security orbs, and no investment outside of time.  In SL, I just settle for whatever cheap land I can find as well as rent and a Bellisseria home.

[xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane]

I personally want to thank everyone for all the replies because as a 27 year old I'm still learning and what is mind-blowingly wild about second life is it literally represents the real world now technically I've only been on for about a year and a half so I'm still fairly learning the community and what goes on I mean hell I want to be a part of the second life family however it's crazy that a lot of you educated me and I took that advice and told some people in the real world and they looked at me and they're like dude you're basically talking about how people do the same thing in real life you know I was unaware cuz I'm not into buying properties in real life but the education and the amount of support it's crazy, now that I'm more aware of how it works I'm not as dumbfounded and upset as I once was because now I'm starting to understand why things work the way they do so I appreciate all the comments and the education you guys are freaking awesome y'all make me mad sometimes but you freaking awesome 🤣💀