Casino in Second Life? is Gambling Back?

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

Then ban all games. all voting, all activies, all fun, ban all everything and we all sit with our thoughts in cubes. I guess that is what you are asking for. Don't understand the nutty push to control others thing.  

Breathe.

You seem to be misconstruing what people are intending.

Fun thread!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

Then ban all games. all voting, all activies, all fun, ban all everything and we all sit with our thoughts in cubes. I guess that is what you are asking for. Don't understand the nutty push to control others thing.  

I'm not "asking for" anything -- please don't put words in my mouth. I haven't, and wouldn't, call for a ban on games in SL, including this kind of casino.

But there are some people who believe that this kind of game feeds a very real RL social problem. I don't know if they are correct or not, but you're not addressing it with this kind of response.

[Persephone Emerald]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Sadly, if minor are in SL areas, there's a lot worse trouble they can get into. The only difference is, LL is "promoting" this.

What can ya do?

Can't quit SL!

Can't protest (oops)!

Can just "not go there" and see what happens.

Here's the problem with non-protest protests: Nobody is going to know that you're protesting.

Let's say for instance that you're upset about a store or restaurant displaying sentiments and policies that you disagree with.

1. People could protest in front of these stores, which might bring them free advertising, or actually educate others about those policies, which they might also disagree with.

2. People could complain on social media, which will likely only inform a small circle of like-minded people, but may make them feel like they're doing something significant.

3. People could do nothing except not shop at that store or restaurant, which is probably not going to make much difference to that store or restaurant.

I think we're voicing our concerns here, which is reasonable. "Protesting" inworld seems like RP protesting to me, fun but not effective for changing policy.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But there are some people who believe that this kind of game feeds a very real RL social problem. I don't know if they are correct or not, but you're not addressing it with this kind of response.

Honestly, this is a great topic for discussion. As is the original topic (unless I'm in the wrong thread AGAIN), that "this just looks bad" with LL promoting "gambling". Given the entire history of "gambling" being banned, replaced by "skill gaming".

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Persephone Emerald said:

Here's the problem with non-protest protests: Nobody is going to know that you're protesting.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if the protesters are the Judean People's Front, or the People's Front of Judea.

 

[Sorina Garrigus]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm not "asking for" anything -- please don't put words in my mouth. I haven't, and wouldn't, call for a ban on games in SL, including this kind of casino.

But there are some people who believe that this kind of game feeds a very real RL social problem. I don't know if they are correct or not, but you're not addressing it with this kind of response.

They are speaking from a place of neither understanding the game nor the problem and only seek to control the world around them.  But the logic or lack of logic basically ends with wanting to remove anything that is fun because it might give you a dopamine boost. For this casino it is like comparing omg I won enough money to buy a ferrari!!! " to "omg I won ... nothing really so not even sure why I said omg in the first place"
It is coming from a place of thought police of others. It is a bit extreme position is all. 

[Sorina Garrigus]

5 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Here's the problem with non-protest protests: Nobody is going to know that you're protesting.

Let's say for instance that you're upset about a store or restaurant displaying sentiments and policies that you disagree with.

1. People could protest in front of these stores, which might bring them free advertising, or actually educate others about those policies, which they might also disagree with.

2. People could complain on social media, which will likely only inform a small circle of like-minded people, but may make them feel like they're doing something significant.

3. People could do nothing except not shop at that store or restaurant, which is probably not going to make much difference to that store or restaurant.

I think we're voicing our concerns here, which is reasonable. "Protesting" inworld seems like RP protesting to me, fun but not effective for changing policy.

But protesting here or in world against this not a casino is basically protesting against not gambling. it is nonsensical. I do find the buying large amounts of credits odd is all. But if someone wants to do that ... that is their money to spend. I see it as buying tokens to a video game arcade. I would never spend that much as it seems silly. But playing with free credits might give a couple moments of enjoyment for some. 

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm not "asking for" anything -- please don't put words in my mouth. I haven't, and wouldn't, call for a ban on games in SL, including this kind of casino.

But there are some people who believe that this kind of game feeds a very real RL social problem. I don't know if they are correct or not, but you're not addressing it with this kind of response.

If this were a resident's Casino, I'd be all.for it.  What bothers me is that LL is the owner/operator.  I don't gamble per se.  I might buy a lottery ticket once or twice a year on a whim.   It might be fun to RP at one of these casinos in SL even if I weren't given free tokens.  

I actually like playing table games in SL.  Just for the fun with friends aspect.  That's completely different than this Casino concept where RL monies come into play.

[Sorina Garrigus]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Honestly, this is a great topic for discussion. As is the original topic (unless I'm in the wrong thread AGAIN), that "this just looks bad" with LL promoting "gambling". Given the entire history of "gambling" being banned, replaced by "skill gaming".

The biggest gamble in SL is buying land or a sim and hope you find a way to break even or maybe make a little. Real estate types gamble all the time buying land hoping it will sell for more at some point. I got a nearly a full sim of mainland sim trying to put out content for people to enjoy ... I just want to break even at least ... some how. free casino games is the least amount of gamble there is in SL. 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

"Protesting" inworld

"Let's sell [devices of evil], then go protest [activities we disagree with]!"  EXACTLY like the real world!!!

I think protesting INSIDE is a step too far.

But on topic, those Social Casinos definitely need Security and Bouncers. 

Big, beefy, furry bouncers.

As a deterrent and actual security.

(A static Anubis doesn't really add much. Unless he's a Very Good Dog.)

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Sorina Garrigus said:

free casino games is the least amount of gamble there is in SL. 

Sorry if you misunderstood, I wasn't complaining about the actual gambling. 

[Sorina Garrigus]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If this were a resident's Casino, I'd be all.for it.  What bothers me is that LL is the owner/operator.  I don't gamble per se.  I might buy a lottery ticket once or twice a year on a whim.   It might be fun to RP at one of these casinos in SL even if I weren't given free tokens.  

I actually like playing table games in SL.  Just for the fun with friends aspect.  That's completely different than this Casino concept where RL monies come into play.

I agree. I think this should be a resident's creation. I thought of something like this a long while ago actually. But used as a traffic device system. I just could never get anyone with the skill set to help. In a legit non loophole kind of way. I actually could likely get enough skilled game makers to do a heck of a lot better than what they did. I been in SL since 2004 and the LL blackjack ... I seen the best blackjack and their's is fairly meh. 

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm not "asking for" anything -- please don't put words in my mouth. I haven't, and wouldn't, call for a ban on games in SL, including this kind of casino.

But there are some people who believe that this kind of game feeds a very real RL social problem. I don't know if they are correct or not, but you're not addressing it with this kind of response.

Pretty much everything in SL caters to addiction, whether it is slex, shopping, fashion, etc. How about those who go shopping on the weekends, buying up everything on sale in the hopes of scoring a few things that might be considered a good buy? Here it is considered normal but for some it is certainly feeds their particular addictions. One can make the excuse they are getting something but the reality is it will drown in the inventory and likely never see the light of day ever again. Just not enough hours in a day to wear  what a lot of us buy on a typical shopping spree.

This particular style of "gambling" is less about a dophamine hit then it is the mindlessness that settles in from clicking Spin or Hit Me and not really caring whether there is a win or loss but just shutting the brain off and go into an almost like a meditative mode that continues until all the tokens are gone. Shopping, Slex, and Fashionesting can produce the same sort of thing but requires more effort so this reaches a new low bar but still really not much different from the other sorts of activities that keep SL afloat. 

[Rat Luv]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Big, beefy, furry bouncers.

As a deterrent and actual security.

You're hired 👍 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rat Luv said:

You're hired 👍 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

If this were a resident's Casino, I'd be all.for it.  What bothers me is that LL is the owner/operator.  I don't gamble per se.  I might buy a lottery ticket once or twice a year on a whim.   It might be fun to RP at one of these casinos in SL even if I weren't given free tokens.  

I actually like playing table games in SL.  Just for the fun with friends aspect.  That's completely different than this Casino concept where RL monies come into play.

I think that this is my problem with the setup here. The amounts of money required to buy chips is not negligible: minimally, L$799, and up to a whopping L$9999.

When was the last time you spent L$9999 on a single thing in SL? I generally don't go through that much in a month.

It is absolutely clear that LL expects and wants people to drop pretty major sums to play here; the tiny free daily chip allowance is pretty much just enough to get you "hooked," and wanting to buy more. Note also that the number of chips that a single L$ will buy you increases as you spend more: they've very deliberately incentivized this so that people will make larger chip purchases.

I'd have no problems with this at all if it truly were entirely free -- even if that meant you could only play a half dozen games a day. I'd have fewer problems if you could buy 50 chips for L$50.

As it stands, it's really difficult not to conclude that LL isn't very consciously exploiting, if not "addictions," at least those who have a hard time walking away from a gaming table.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think that this is my problem with the setup here. The amounts of money required to buy chips is not negligible: minimally, L$799, and up to a whopping L$9999.

I agree, someone in S/L was not thinking this through or understands the mindset of the addict where the 800L$ could give someone second thoughts rather then a smaller amount like 100 or 200 that one could spend multiple times without a second thought. Or perhaps whoever thought this up thought the high cost would help with some degree of impulse control.

[Rowan Amore]

What's next?  An LL run text, chat and cam Escort club?  😂🤔

Your first 15 minutes are free.  After that, it's 10L a minute.

As @Love Zhaoyingsays...was joke.   

 

Or was it?

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

An LL run text, chat and cam Escort club? 

- New meaning to, "Whack-A-Mole"!

- Dibs on Patch!

 

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

What's next?  An LL run text, chat and cam Escort club?  😂🤔

Your first 15 minutes are free.  After that, it's 10L a minute.

As @Love Zhaoyingsays...was joke.   

 

Or was it?

 

It would be a joke at 10L a minute. That is only 600L per hour. Bet there be Johns lining up to get in.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I agree, someone in S/L was not thinking this through or understands the mindset of the addict where the 800L$ could give someone second thoughts rather then a smaller amount like 100 or 200 that one could spend multiple times without a second thought. Or perhaps whoever thought this up thought the high cost would help with some degree of impulse control.

Is that why you get more bang for your buck when you spend larger sums, Arielle? That's assisting "impulse control"?

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think that this is my problem with the setup here. The amounts of money required to buy chips is not negligible: minimally, L$799, and up to a whopping L$9999.

When was the last time you spent L$9999 on a single thing in SL? I generally don't go through that much in a month.

It is absolutely clear that LL expects and wants people to drop pretty major sums to play here; the tiny free daily chip allowance is pretty much just enough to get you "hooked," and wanting to buy more. Note also that the number of chips that a single L$ will buy you increases as you spend more: they've very deliberately incentivized this so that people will make larger chip purchases.

I'd have no problems with this at all if it truly were entirely free -- even if that meant you could only play a half dozen games a day. I'd have fewer problems if you could buy 50 chips for L$50.

As it stands, it's really difficult not to conclude that LL isn't very consciously exploiting, if not "addictions," at least those who have a hard time walking away from a gaming table.

Since the suggested amounts are "basically a joke" given how much people complain to spend less than that for a one-time purchase, on a mesh avatar that they will use every day..

I have to wonder.

Is there a disconnect between LL and the users; LL doesn't know "we" think that those amounts are out of line?

Or, are they targeting some base of users who don't know any better, or don't care, or can't help themselves even if the amount is "way too high"?

Disclaimer: I used to be a "big spender" in SL. Dropping L$10k, 30K, 80K just to watch the chaos and for the notoriety.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

It appears we've done a really good job of advertising this casino for the Lab for free.   It's all over here and Twitter.  How many people in this thread went and added to the traffic count just to see what the outcry is about?  I almost want to go see it.   No, I really don't.

I feel a bit left out not really caring about a pretend casino, though, so

"What about the children and addicts?!?!"

Is the loophole just the fact that the Lab is using tokens instead of $Ls?  If so, why couldn't they go back to having Gacha events where you use your $Ls to by tokens for the machines?  How did they get around having an "ATM" to buy more though.  They have lawyers, so how did they justify this?

If you NEVER win anything all your doing is entertaining yourself by clicking a slot machine over and over knowing there was never a chance of a payout or prize.

[Persephone Emerald]

I've been over there 3 times now out of curiosity.  I think the build looks ok, but the whole idea is boring. I had one of my alts play for a bit with the free credits. I quit when he was ahead by 10 credits. I don't like losing money in gambling, which is why I don't gamble in RL. 

Go ahead and look at the place if you wish. It will probably be gone in a few months.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is there a disconnect between LL and the users; LL doesn't know "we" think that those amounts are out of line?

Or, are they targeting some base of users who don't know any better, or don't care, or can't help themselves even if the amount is "way too high"?

I don't know the answer to this, but you're right that the amounts are out of line with SL expectations. Most of us are used to spending something between about L$250 and L$400 for a single colour garment or hair style. My rent over the years (separate from my bumped-up tier) has generally come in at about L$500 to L$600 per week.

There are of course people who have different spending habits -- Maddy, for instance, buys much less clothing than I do, but almost always gets fatpacks when she does.

But the cost of chips for this casino is completely anomalous. And I can't tell you for sure that that's either because LL is out of touch with its own economy, or because they are confident that SL "gamblers" will readily drop such large sums. Again, though, they've incentivized really large purchases by making them a more efficient way of buying chips -- and that tells me that they are steering people into paying out the upper end of those options.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra