Mainland neighbors with low low low skyboxes

[Karan Quandry]

I just abandoned a parcel of land after a neighbor put up a huge bright blue skybox that is so low to the ground, you can almost touch it.  I lost the $2500L purchase price.  Is there nothing you can do about neighbors like this one?

[Katherine Heartsong]

On mainland, if they're not encroaching your space? No. Sorry.

[Teresa Firelight]

If you are on the firestorm viewer, you can derender unsighly neighbor garbage... just edit to get the owner and put the owner name in search, select all and blacklist. In case you dont know how to do that, here are the steps:

1. Edit one of the objects to derender and get owner name from editor

2. world->area search

3. Select filter tab and uncheck "neighboring regions" just in case it is not in the same region you are.

4. select Find tab. Enter the name from step one in the field marked owner. The hit search

5. Window will readjust to the List tab. right click any entry and select "Select All" from menu (it is near the bottom).

6. Right click again and select "Blacklist" from menu.

 

[Aethelwine]

You could politely talk to them and suggest that if they need help raising the skybox higher you can help them, but that the basic trick to it is manually editing the z value of the position setting for their skybox rezzer.  Also if using firestorm they can then type "gth xxx" where xxx is the height they moved the rezzer to to get to it. Note also the age of the avatar is not a good indication of their skill with the edit\building tools. I have met a lot of people who have 10 year old accounts that have never had land, or people that can't get their sofa to rest on the ground or not half in their wall. 

Might not work, but worth a try... I don't think that many people actually set out to mess with their neighbours and equally likely they just don't know better, maybe trying to drag the rezzer up in the sky and got bored dragging it after a few metres. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Aethelwine

[diamond Marchant]

6 hours ago, Karan Quandry said:

I just abandoned a parcel of land after a neighbor put up a huge bright blue skybox that is so low to the ground, you can almost touch it.  I lost the $2500L purchase price.  Is there nothing you can do about neighbors like this one?

You didnt mention if you asked them (politely) to move the skybox upwards. There is a lag reduction argument for that. Also, I assume the skybox had no windows or view, so it really wouldn't impact their experience. They likely are always TPing to it also.

My standard draw distance is 128 and this solves numerous problems like this on mainland.

Edited April 12, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Katherine Heartsong]

Both Teresa and diamond are correct, I just thought you were asking about if you could make them change it. Derender is your friend.

[Tary Allen]

In mainland I just defender stuff and keep a low draw distance. I have a neighbour that has one of those rentals that are round skyboxes piled on top of another and if I'm at my skybox low draw distance is my friend. He doesn't have them on the ground witch I think is very nice of him.

[Karan Quandry]

Thank you all for your comments.  I didn't know you derender by name!!!  I will be doing that when I find another chunk of land.

 

[Johnny Giotto]

I'll probably get roasted for saying this but here goes....
 

Why can't there be a minimum height level for Skyboxes? 
When sailing on Blake Sea and heading to Nautilus the amount of eyesores that ruin the look of the surrounding land is ridiculous.

Instead of individuals having to de-render, just have a minimum height level. It just seems the wrong way round to solve an issue. With one person creating a beautiful parcel of land, only to be ruined by a low level Skybox seems crazy. 

I am sure more people would consider buying some Mainland if the eyesores were placed higher. It definitely puts me off,

A lot of places on Second Life Mainland look really good, thoughtfully landscaped etc, only to be ruined by Skyboxes. Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you have a low level Skybox, why would you be offended if it had to be placed higher when you TP to it anyway?

[diamond Marchant]

2 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

Why can't there be a minimum height level for Skyboxes? 

I speculate that Linden Lab would not retroactively impose such a rule as it would be difficult and expensive to enforce. It would also set a precedent.

[Johnny Giotto]

8 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I speculate that Linden Lab would not retroactively impose such a rule as it would be difficult and expensive to enforce. It would also set a precedent.

Hi Diamond, yes, you are probably correct about the difficulty and expense. It would set a precedent but surely a good one 👍
I don't expect it to happen at all really. Just thinking out loud. It just seemed like common sense to me as those Skyboxes ain't pretty, they ruin  a good vista.

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Johnny Giotto said:

If you have a low level Skybox, why would you be offended if it had to be placed higher when you TP to it anyway?

Some are probably at the same height they were rezzed years ago when the build ceiling was 768m and we needed a "flight feather" and… well, and lots of them are more recent builds by new landowners.

In theory Bellisseria might have acted as a kind of training ground for new landowners, to get a sense of what's generally acceptable behavior for living in a Second Life neighborhood. I'm not sure it's working out that way, though.

FWIW, I almost never de-render anything unless I'm taking a picture, but I do keep my draw depth no deeper than 96m. That helps a lot anyway, reducing the total texture area I need to download as I move around Mainland.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:52 AM, Johnny Giotto said:

Why can't there be a minimum height level for Skyboxes? 

Right?

[animats]

There should be an extra charge for "antigravity". If you

On 4/11/2023 at 3:59 PM, Teresa Firelight said:

If you are on the firestorm viewer, you can derender unsighly neighbor garbage... just edit to get the owner and put the owner name in search, select all and blacklist. In case you dont know how to do that, here are the steps:

1. Edit one of the objects to derender and get owner name from editor

2. world->area search

3. Select filter tab and uncheck "neighboring regions" just in case it is not in the same region you are.

4. select Find tab. Enter the name from step one in the field marked owner. The hit search

5. Window will readjust to the List tab. right click any entry and select "Select All" from menu (it is near the bottom).

6. Right click again and select "Blacklist" from menu.

It won't help. You have to blacklist every object in large skyboxes.

[Teresa Firelight]

6 hours ago, animats said:

There should be an extra charge for "antigravity". If you

It won't help. You have to blacklist every object in large skyboxes.

yes but with area search you an do so in a few keystrokes.. search for all objects "owned by" and select all once found, then blacklist all the selected ones.

[Setsuki Takeda]

Sadly there are *no* rules, or often even courtesy, on the mainland.

Not only do they do things like this out of often sheer laziness, but some people maliciously buld to block others, and none of it is forbidden. The only thing you can do against them is send all their renters (most of them are skybox rental places) a summary of their bad actions and hope that it causes them to lose enough income to stop.

[elleevelyn]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:11 AM, animats said:

There should be an extra charge for "antigravity"

all skybox below 1000m with no avatar present will fall down if don't pay the energy tier extra on top of your land tier and all the prims will turn physical and auto-unlink

[Tytia Atheria]

I agree with Johnny, a sky limit would be nice. Some of us on the mainland spend hours and lots of linden to make our homes look nice and within theme of the area, especially along the waterfronts. Then, somebody comes along and plants a spaceship just feet above land making it appear to be on top of our home. Talking to the individual nicely does not always work and LL won't enforce any mediation. And people sailing by are not going to derender everything along the way. Sad really.

[Johnny Giotto]

2 hours ago, Tytia Atheria said:

I agree with Johnny, a sky limit would be nice. Some of us on the mainland spend hours and lots of linden to make our homes look nice and within theme of the area, especially along the waterfronts. Then, somebody comes along and plants a spaceship just feet above land making it appear to be on top of our home. Talking to the individual nicely does not always work and LL won't enforce any mediation. And people sailing by are not going to derender everything along the way. Sad really.

Exactly Tytia

[Gabriele Graves]

Instead of trying to get LL to change the rules that affect everyone to suit your wants, why not instead try to recognise that mainland is possibly not the land product for you.  There are many land products that will give you a guaranteed theme in which to build your dream place, Mainland isn't one of them.

[animats]

Because having neighbors makes for a useful community. If you have to build large areas all by yourself, it's a big job, and the result usually has too much repetition.

[Gabriele Graves]

Who said they would have to create large area builds by themselves?  There are themed land products that let people create small land area builds and always have been.  They may not be necessarily be offered by LL but those options exist nevertheless.

[Johnny Giotto]

9 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Instead of trying to get LL to change the rules that affect everyone to suit your wants, why not instead try to recognise that mainland is possibly not the land product for you.  There are many land products that will give you a guaranteed theme in which to build your dream place, Mainland isn't one of them.

May I refer you back to my original post:
 

Quote

Why can't there be a minimum height level for Skyboxes? 
When sailing on Blake Sea and heading to Nautilus the amount of eyesores that ruin the look of the surrounding land is ridiculous.

Instead of individuals having to de-render, just have a minimum height level. It just seems the wrong way round to solve an issue. With one person creating a beautiful parcel of land, only to be ruined by a low level Skybox seems crazy. 

I am sure more people would consider buying some Mainland if the eyesores were placed higher. It definitely puts me off,

A lot of places on Second Life Mainland look really good, thoughtfully landscaped etc, only to be ruined by Skyboxes. Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you have a low level Skybox, why would you be offended if it had to be placed higher when you TP to it anyway?

And as for your reply to Animats

 

5 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Who said they would have to create large area builds by themselves?  There are themed land products that let people create small land area builds and always have been.  They may not be necessarily be offered by LL but those options exist nevertheless.

We are all aware of these other land options but this was specifically about Mainland. Also, it was not about, necessarily, owning a piece of Mainland, but sailing through it. De-rendering is not logical, efficient or practical. No one is  stating that skyboxes should be banned, just a bit higher, out of sight. Why would you want to see them? The vast majority of them look ugly and ruin the overall look.

[Gabriele Graves]

I'd already read your post Johnny but I was actually responding to what the poster before you wrote.  It wasn't about you at all.  Why would it be?  You only agreed with the poster I was responding to.

However, now you bring it up and addressing travelling through Mainland.

Lowering your draw distance around the Nautilus City/Blake Sea area while sailing will mean that you never have to see what is beyond the coastline and even give you a performance boost.  Derendering stuff there is the last thing I would try.

When I'm sailing around this area, I find it very easy to avoid seeing anything I don't want to or I just ignore it.

The Blake Sea even has access to large privately owned estate (the Norway regions) with rules that mean people can sail around all day and enjoy the skybox-less vistas.

Over the years, I've travelled around most places on Mainland and seen many different types of builds.  Some I liked and some not so much.  Never did I feel so entitled that I expected others to have to change to accommodate my travelling.  After all, I am the visitor there.  I have enjoyed my travels with many vehicles and without, all the time knowing what Mainland is and what that means.

People do what they do on Mainland because they want to.  It's a place where they can.  It doesn't matter if I or others cannot understand their reasons.  I personally may not like what they have built but they have bought the right to do so.

I have the choice to travel around some other place if I don't like it and there are so many other places to explore.
If I have plenty of choices, so does everyone else.

Why does it even have to be Mainland?
One good choice is Bellisseria where it is always picturesque, there are no visible skyboxes and lots of ocean, rivers and lakes to sail.

I suggest that people that cannot stand Mainland the way it is, make another choice from the abundant choices available.
 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Johnny Giotto]

On 6/24/2023 at 12:58 PM, Gabriele Graves said:

I'd already read your post Johnny but I was actually responding to what the poster before you wrote.  It wasn't about you at all.  Why would it be?  You only agreed with the poster I was responding to.

However, now you bring it up and addressing travelling through Mainland.

Lowering your draw distance around the Nautilus City/Blake Sea area while sailing will mean that you never have to see what is beyond the coastline and even give you a performance boost.  Derendering stuff there is the last thing I would try.

When I'm sailing around this area, I find it very easy to avoid seeing anything I don't want to or I just ignore it.

The Blake Sea even has access to large privately owned estate (the Norway regions) with rules that mean people can sail around all day and enjoy the skybox-less vistas.

Over the years, I've travelled around most places on Mainland and seen many different types of builds.  Some I liked and some not so much.  Never did I feel so entitled that I expected others to have to change to accommodate my travelling.  After all, I am the visitor there.  I have enjoyed my travels with many vehicles and without, all the time knowing what Mainland is and what that means.

People do what they do on Mainland because they want to.  It's a place where they can.  It doesn't matter if I or others cannot understand their reasons.  I personally may not like what they have built but they have bought the right to do so.

I have the choice to travel around some other place if I don't like it and there are so many other places to explore.
If I have plenty of choices, so does everyone else.

Why does it even have to be Mainland?
One good choice is Bellisseria where it is always picturesque, there are no visible skyboxes and lots of ocean, rivers and lakes to sail.

I suggest that people that cannot stand Mainland the way it is, make another choice from the abundant choices available.
 

First let me apologise for incorrect assumption that you were referring to my post... I am genuinely sorry.

As for feeling entitled, you have me 100% wrong on that. I am not trying to remove skyboxes, just get them to be proper skyboxes, higher up in the sky. I do not understand why anyone, including the owner of a skybox, would want to be able to see it from their Earth bound property, unless it was a true extension spiralling up into the sky. 

Having a decent gaming PC means I do not need to lower my draw distance. I do not think that changing my graphic settings when I am in one area and then changing them again is a great answer. Admittedly, I have reduced my draw distance in the past to get a nice photo of my sailboat.

Normally, in life, when there is a perceived issue, one person's right to do what they like would not outweigh everyone else's. De-rendering, as a solution, is the many changing for one. It just doesn't seem right.

I am a resident of Bellisseria and have been for a while. 

Let me ask you this, if it was possible for LL, with one command, raise all  skyboxes to a minimum height, would that really be so bad? Just try and imagine travelling around these beautiful sims and not seeing a skybox.

I do realise it will never happen and that mainland is mainland. I just think it is a shame they never thought about it in the beginning.

My last thought on this subject. I generally have this view, if you want to see where issue lies exaggerate the issue . So, in this case, everyone who has a mainland parcel puts up a skybox that can be seen from the ground, what happens to the sky?