Mobile and the Future of Second Life

[Love Zhaoying]

31 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

What I and some others are suggesting however to streamline things is to update the outfit menu to something like this:

Where the appearance menu/outfit menu is used to not only save outfits (right of image) but also have a section where you can preview and wear a shirt, pants etc in a categorised menu that is in the same place as other avatar customisations and separate from the inventory removing the need to remember where it was put.

Thanks! Anything is better than those awful "wearable-type" icons. 

After 16 years, I'm still not sure what they mean. (But I don't wear clothes often..)

And the fact that you can only wear "one" of some Icon types..oh gee, that sure is intuitive! ("Which icons were they again!?")

 

[Dyna Mole]

Hello, debate team!

Things have been getting a little heated recently. Please cool off the personal rhetoric and focus on the topic of the thread. Spirited discussion and constructive disagreement are welcome, but please do it without name-calling and language that is intended to provoke an angry response.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Does it? When was the last time you talked a "newbie" through putting together a mesh avatar? Last two times I did it were under 2 hours each, the normal one was an hour, the "slow and needs a dumbed down viewer" took almost two hours.

Try watching some youtube videos of hardcore streaming gamers trying some new game, spending the entirety of the first 1 hour video 'creating their new character" in systems far less flexible and customisable than SL.

 

Yes, you can teach a noobie how to get dressed in a couple of hours but you are conveniently ignoring the fact that it will take a couple of years to a couple of decades to teach them all the workarounds residents have had to come up with for making the whole process somewhat more efficient and organized, never mind the fact that since the lab doesn't set any sort of standardization for created content, new bugs/features come to light all the time. The lack of being able to rename No Mod items is an aggravating mess forcing one to now have to go through and wear a list of 10-15 Bom layers trying to find the right one because it was received with no differentiation between them other then numbers rather than colors. I'm sure i will remember in 3 months that the Bom Makeup package XYZ has Bom Layer number 6 as the pink lipstick layer I want. Yeah there are some workarounds but that's the problem, the viewer has devolved into a mish mash of user generated workarounds to circumvent the issues the Lab fails to address. At best they just give us more workarounds rather than changing things to solve those time consuming processes that become an aggravating mess for the typical resident.

How many posts are seen in the Pet Peeve thread when another long term resident finally throws up their hands in disgust and surrenders to having to try sort out an accumulation of 50, 100 or 200 thousand items into some semblance of organization. I'm at under 50K and already becoming increasingly selective buying new items to pile onto a burgeoning inventory because I can't find the stuff I already have. This is fixable on the Lab side but again, they seem to refuse to deal with a clear cut case of aggravation for users. But here is you, It's all good! Means you like the lab simply ignores what is a large problem. 

We're not looking for a dumbing down of the inventory UI but an increase in intelligence from the one's who are responsible for it's current state of chaos.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

How many posts are seen in the Pet Peeve thread when another long term resident finally throws up their hands in disgust and surrenders to having to try sort out an accumulation of 50, 100 or 200 thousand items into some semblance of organization. I'm at under 50K and already becoming increasingly selective buying new items to pile onto a burgeoning inventory because I can't find the stuff I already have. This is fixable on the Lab side but again, they seem to refuse to deal with a clear cut case of aggravation for users. But here is you, It's all good! Means you like the lab simply ignores what is a large problem. 

My inventory is at about 71k, I don't have a problem finding stuff, because I sort as I buy, always have.

If YOU, or some other old account didn't  BOTHER sorting  your stuff as you  obtained it,  that is clearly a YOU problem, not a ME problem or an SL problem.

And how large the problem is, depends on YOU.

[Love Zhaoying]

I hope that LL provides us details on the mobile UI, so we can cheer them on in the continuing development effort.  Maybe at least in another upcoming "video update".

I have confidence that LL will make good decisions about the mobile UI, otherwise it would be "unusable"!

The discussion is very interesting about how many "tens of thousands", "hundreds of thousands", etc. potential mobile users could be interested!

If LL was a publicly traded, I'd be buying stock right now!

[Zalificent Corvinus]

28 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thanks! Anything is better than those awful "wearable-type" icons. 

After 16 years, I'm still not sure what they mean. (But I don't wear clothes often..)

And the fact that you can only wear "one" of some Icon types..oh gee, that sure is intuitive! ("Which icons were they again!?")

 

System Shape, System Skin, System Eyes, System Hair.

It's not rocket science.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

I'm sorry, I must have missed the category in the outfit menu labelled shirt that has a list of all the shirts in my inventory or those I saved as an individual entity not part of an outfit that I can add from that shirt menu without having to find them in my inventory.

I am not talking about an item saved to an outfit or an item the avatar is already wearing, which somehow you think that is what I am talking about. The fact that you didn't even know what I was talking about shows you have no idea what people are asking for when we are talking about streamlining and improving the viewer.

There is currently no practical way to identify a mesh shirt as a shirt and not say, a house. Implementing  a system for that is possible, but poses the problem of correctly  categorising all the existing content, when you have no  way to determine automatically, what category it goes in, you are 20 years too late on that one.

And I wasn't talking about saved outfits, or what you are currently wearing either. That you assumed I was proves my point  about  you not knowing how to use the features we already have.

[Rowan Amore]

50 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

How many posts are seen in the Pet Peeve thread when another long term resident finally throws up their hands in disgust and surrenders to having to try sort out an accumulation of 50, 100 or 200 thousand items into some semblance of organization.

That would be me!

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

How many posts are seen in the Pet Peeve thread when another long term resident finally throws up their hands in disgust and surrenders to having to try sort out an accumulation of 50, 100 or 200 thousand items into some semblance of organization.

That would be me!

I started reading AP's quote and thought it was going to be a "throw your hands in the air, and wave them like you just don't care!" song references!

[EliseAnne85]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I mean, viewer oranges or orangutans, SL avatar customization needs massive, slash-and-burn simplification.

Prioritize.  There will be no other way to simply SL for mobile, then to prioritize.  Just like in real life.  

This is how to prioritize one's real life - what is really being utilized, and what is just taking up space unutilized?   The unutilized stuff needs to go.  

[Istelathis]

If we get an upgrade to inventory management I hope it is better than just an image, a full fledged 3d window displaying our avatar of choice (to be defined and chosen by us) wearing said item.

This would require a bit of work though, I imagine each item in the database would need a new field to define the location of the body it will be attached to, which would in turn make sorting through your inventory much easier.  For older clothes, a dialogue window could open telling the user that the field has not been set and ask the user to where it belongs on the body for future use.

Using this method, one could compare various components of an outfit and how well they work together for the look you want, the 3d windowed model would be able to assume different poses, and the camera for the window can be shifted around.

Further, with integration to the marketplace and casper and with the right scripting to any sales object, we could have a preview of the item before purchasing it, which would cut back on using demos as they would not be needed as often if you simply find the item not what you are currently looking for.  Demos of course, would still be nice for everyone that wants to view it on their actual avatar.

It would be especially nice to have this feature, when shopping in stores and you see an item you want to try, but don't want to be bothered to teleporting out of the store to try the demo without stripping in front of everyone, then if you like it, teleporting back to the store and searching for that one specific item you were interested in to make the purchase.

Speaking of animations, you could try them in such a 3d preview screen before making a purchase.

Finally when you have achieved the look you want, it can be saved to be used or modified later.  A snapshot of the outfit could be previewed, and the full 3d window can also be opened for a better look if so desired.

The viewer is sorely missing a 3d window for such things, it is a shame because it would make the entire experience much easier, it would make sorting through your items tremendously easier, it could make shopping a much easier experience for everyone.

In addition to outfits, 3d window would also make purchasing furniture, plants, vehicles, houses, any mesh model less of a pita, one could simply go to the marketplace, select preview and in your client (or the website) you would have rendered the mesh model, complete with textures.  You could traverse a house get an idea if it is something you would want, you would be able to get a full view of any piece of furniture, etc.  No demos need to be downloaded, no sandboxes needed to be traversed to to take out the demo.  Like clothes, a new field would probably be needed to each object to define what it is, which would likewise make searching your inventory much easier of an endeavor, likewise older items that have been undefined can be later defined by the user when they preview it.

Another perk on to of all of it.. items that have no demo would be able to be previewed regardless.  

Images are nice, I like them, especially for wardrobe, it is much better than not having them, and I see a use for them regardless, but if the viewer is going to be updated, we may as well go all the way and create a system that gives us more functionality, in the privacy of a 3d window and serves a purpose on our purchasing behavior.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

If we get an upgrade to inventory management I hope it is better than just an image, a full fledged 3d window displaying our avatar of choice (to be defined and chosen by us) wearing said item.

This would require a bit of work though, I imagine each item in the database would need a new field to define the location of the body it will be attached to, which would in turn make sorting through your inventory much easier.  For older clothes, a dialogue window could open telling the user that the field has not been set and ask the user to where it belongs on the body for future use.

Using this method, one could compare various components of an outfit and how well they work together for the look you want, the 3d windowed model would be able to assume different poses, and the camera for the window can be shifted around.

Further, with integration to the marketplace and casper and with the right scripting to any sales object, we could have a preview of the item before purchasing it, which would cut back on using demos as they would not be needed as often if you simply find the item not what you are currently looking for.  Demos of course, would still be nice for everyone that wants to view it on their actual avatar.

It would be especially nice to have this feature, when shopping in stores and you see an item you want to try, but don't want to be bothered to teleporting out of the store to try the demo without stripping in front of everyone, then if you like it, teleporting back to the store and searching for that one specific item you were interested in to make the purchase.

Speaking of animations, you could try them in such a 3d preview screen before making a purchase.

Finally when you have achieved the look you want, it can be saved to be used or modified later.  A snapshot of the outfit could be previewed, and the full 3d window can also be opened for a better look if so desired.

The viewer is sorely missing a 3d window for such things, it is a shame because it would make the entire experience much easier, it would make sorting through your items tremendously easier, it could make shopping a much easier experience for everyone.

In addition to outfits, 3d window would also make purchasing furniture, plants, vehicles, houses, any mesh model less of a pita, one could simply go to the marketplace, select preview and in your client (or the website) you would have rendered the mesh model, complete with textures.  You could traverse a house get an idea if it is something you would want, you would be able to get a full view of any piece of furniture, etc.  No demos need to be downloaded, no sandboxes needed to be traversed to to take out the demo.  Like clothes, a new field would probably be needed to each object to define what it is, which would likewise make searching your inventory much easier of an endeavor, likewise older items that have been undefined can be later defined by the user when they preview it.

Another perk on to of all of it.. items that have no demo would be able to be previewed regardless.  

Images are nice, I like them, especially for wardrobe, it is much better than not having them, and I see a use for them regardless, but if the viewer is going to be updated, we may as well go all the way and create a system that gives us more functionality, in the privacy of a 3d window and serves a purpose on our purchasing behavior.

It seems ironic, as showing a "preview" view is the same (kinda maybe sorta) as showing you wearing the thing in-world.

One other virtual thingy (guess it was an App) I've seen with clothing / acootermint previews was Replika, where you could preview your AI wearing an item before you buy.

 

[Istelathis]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It seems ironic, as showing a "preview" view is the same (kinda maybe sorta) as showing you wearing the thing in-world.

One other virtual thingy (guess it was an App) I've seen with clothing / acootermint previews was Replika, where you could preview your AI wearing an item before you buy.

 

The main use would be for shopping, but also for when you just want to preview said item without having everyone around you seeing the article of clothing changing.  Likewise, if you want to try on that pair of shoes you see someone else wearing 🥰  

It also comes down to convenience, saving and modifying outfits from a window will allow you to maintain the outfit you are currently wearing while comparing it to what changes you could make to it.

 

[EliseAnne85]

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Bom Makeup package XYZ has Bom Layer number 6 as the pink lipstick layer I want. Yeah there are some workarounds but that's the problem, the viewer has devolved into a mish mash of user generated workarounds to circumvent the issues the Lab fails to address. 

What could LL do for no mod items that are named something like blah, blah, blah 6 which is really - let's call it blank - because we forgot the name or it has no useful name.  Could the lab add a line where the owner could rename it?  Or what?  

Clarifying - it wouldn't change the original name of the no mod item but somehow a line added where OWNER can additionally write a name for the item.  Is this possible?

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Flea Yatsenko]

18 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You are still conflating "lots of people have system [whatever]" with "therefore they will automatically want product [something]", and claiming that this idiocy "proves" that there is a vast untapped market that will really improve everything.

Cargo Cultist nonsense at it's best.

You come across like a fail-marketeer at a baby food company trying to convince the board of directors to waste millions on adverts targeting SINGLE PEOPLE who DON'T HAVE KIDS, because "there are a lot of them and they have more money to spare and don't buy baby food, obviously a vast untapped market!"

What NONE of the Mobile Cargo Cultists, prattling on about how many teenagers there are with smartphones, has done so far is show ANY evidence that said teens have ANY interest in a product like SL. If they did, Zuckborg's Metacrap-Does-Not-Exist-I-Verse would have more users, but its a colossal multi-billion dollar failure.

Oh and "just for reference by the way" SL has over 60 MILLION registered accounts, so boasting of the number of IMVSPEW app downloads, again doesn't really mean a lot. Stop drinking the damn cultist koolaid.

They already do want it. Look at Roblox, VRChat, IMVU, etc. People want to be social. Metaverse failed because people like virtual worlds as an escape from their real lives. A virtual world tied to Facebook completely defeats the point of a virtual world. Facebook knew it and it's why they went so far as to change their name to Meta. But it still wasn't enough. And meta verse is truly dystopian, everywhere you go there's all these messages telling you how to behave or you're going to get banned, all on a service tied to your real life name. It's no wonder metaverse failed and it was doomed from the start. Look how many people want to share RL information in SL. Now imagine if LL decided one day that all accounts will be linked to your real names. Metaverse failing had nothing to do with people not wanting a virtual world. There are tons of very successful virtual worlds on a huge range of platforms more than a desktop or laptop PC. I would even argue that given SL's technology and content, those other places intentionally entered markets SL wasn't in, VR, mobile, etc and filled in the void. I think if LL jumped on that earlier they would be the VRChat and the mobile IMVU. I don't know why you have such a bone to pick with mobile. In the last 10 years the entire internet has changed, websites target mobile or provide an app when they used to target desktops and laptops. The internet has changed a lot in the last 5 years with COVID and WFH, let alone in the last 10 years. You can call me names all you want and be rude but the fact of the matter is computing and the internet has drastically changed since SL was created and it's only going to keep shifting in that direction. You don't have to dig very far to find articles talking about college students who grew up on phones and don't even understand how directories and folders work. Like it or not there is a generation that mostly only knows mobile devices and touch screens. They will never come to SL in it's current state. If SL stays with just a PC/Mac version it's only going to continue to slowly decline in users as people age out and stop using SL faster than it can attract new users. I've been doing web/internet stuff for a long time and lived through the shift from desktop to mobile. I'm not excited about the internet and devices getting dumber and dumber and turning more and more into a content consumption platform instead of a content creation platform. I miss forums instead of reddit. I miss a lot of the old internet. But you need to realize it's never ever coming back and it's just going to get more restricted, simpler, and less tailored to people like us.

SL has 60 million accounts registered by who knows how many people over 20 years, with their largest growth behind them. You just have to search Play Store and you'll see a ridiculous amount of virtual worlds and avatar makers with tons of downloads. Avakin has 100M+ downloads. There's a ton of them with millions of hundreds of thousands of downloads. There is absolutely demand. How many successful virtual worlds do you have to look at to see? Of course they all don't work out, but all it takes to prove that a mobile virtual world is wanted is a few success stories, and they are definitely there. 

1 hour ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Prioritize.  There will be no other way to simply SL for mobile, then to prioritize.  Just like in real life.  

This is how to prioritize one's real life - what is really being utilized, and what is just taking up space unutilized?   The unutilized stuff needs to go.  

Things don't have to be removed to make the viewer more enjoyable and easier to use. Changing your avatar with a bunch of sliders is really outdated. One of the coolest character creators I've seen in a game let you drag and scale the actual parts of the face, like if you wanted to change eye distance you'd click the eye then just move it. You could get the corner up and down and the eye distance with one natural motion instead of two different sliders. End result, no customization and features were lost but the user only has to perform one action to get their result instead of two sliders.

[Drayke Newall]

6 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

What could LL do for no mod items that are named something like blah, blah, blah 6 which is really - let's call it blank - because we forgot the name or it has no useful name.  Could the lab add a line where the owner could rename it?  Or what?  

Clarifying - it wouldn't change the original name of the no mod item but somehow a line added where OWNER can additionally write a name for the item.  Is this possible?

The only thing the name on an object serves is for identification by the user, nothing more. Updates for objects and anything else related to that object are handled by UUID. Adding a new line for the owner isn't necessary at all.
What Linden Lab should do is simply remove editing the name from the no-mod system. The object stays no-mod but the name of the object can be changed.

[Drayke Newall]

11 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

There is currently no practical way to identify a mesh shirt as a shirt and not say, a house. Implementing  a system for that is possible, but poses the problem of correctly  categorising all the existing content, when you have no  way to determine automatically, what category it goes in, you are 20 years too late on that one.

You are joking right?

Currently a total of 8,483,195 existing objects (if not more) are categorised and even have pictures included of said content.

Of that, 3,520,459 objects (including mesh and system layered clothing) are categorised as apparel, of which includes:

• Children's: 179,417
• Clothing Textures: 18,002
• Men's: 393,986
• Unisex: 65,197
• Women's: 2,728,659

Taking those 2,728,659 Women's clothing they include:

• Women's Bottoms: 220,605
• Women's Clothing Fat Packs: 32,375
• Women's Costumes: 190,508
• Women's Dresses: 627,338
• Women's Footwear: 283,806
• Women's Intimates: 186,583
• Women's Outerwear: 45,549
• Women's Outfits: 448,282
• Women's Swimwear: 79,232
• Women's Tops: 349,233

Taking those 627,338 Women's Dresses they include:

• Casual Dresses: 145,454
• Cocktail Dresses: 37,535
• Formal Dresses: 95,119
• Summer Dresses: 30,400

Taking those 95,119 Formal Dresses they include:

• Bridal: 5092
• Formal Gowns: 63057

I could do the same for body parts, tattoos, hair, unmentionables, piercings, Avatar accessories, complete avatars, furry clothing and even furry avatar components like heads and legs if you wish as well.

But, you keep on going thinking no categories of clothing has existing in the past 20 years or not believing the fact we have had item categorisation since well before 2009. LMAO 🤣

Also, why stop there, you could even go further and have a home decorating system where plants, furniture etc are automatically categorised in a nice little menu called "House" that all a person needs to do is click the house button and in there are all their home decoration objects with a nice picture ready to drag out and rez.

All without ever looking in an outdated inventory tree directory or having to rez the object out because there is no visual hint to what the object is other than a yellow cube.

As I said earlier, 90% of everything required to set up such an avatar customisation system (and more) is already in place. If Linden Lab can't figure out the last 10% then they have no right calling themselves developers.

11 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And I wasn't talking about saved outfits, or what you are currently wearing either. That you assumed I was proves my point  about  you not knowing how to use the features we already have.

Then show me a system in any viewer, default or TPV, that has what I have shown in the image I posted that doesn't require a user to use the current outfit tabs that are designed to save a complete outfit as per their intended use (per the LL troubleshoot and wiki). Which includes a system that categorises clothing correctly for ease of editing your avatar. If you can't (which I am 100% sure you can't) then any other methods you state are invalid as no new user would or should be needed to work out how to do it otherwise via a workaround.

You cannot claim that just because you use a workaround to a system designed for a different thing that you know how a system should be used over a person that uses it as its intended use.

As per what @Arielle Popstar mentioned, workarounds are not a solution and are part of the problem.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Drayke Newall

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

You are joking right?

[deprecated due to not having a clue]

No, you  are once again assuming that arbitary classifications on the marketplace, many of them amazingly inaccurate, something many people complain about, are "in world properties detectable by the system".

Reality check, SL currently has NO WAY WHAT SO EVER to tell a fitted mesh shirt from an unrigged mesh car, or a house, or a bowl of fruit, except when attached to an avatar, when the rigging, if any takes effect. It cant tell if an object is a mesh shirt, or the mesh texture hud for that shirt.

Maitreya Lara isn't available on the MP, it does not have an MP listing or category, so your "does not have a clue" nonsense could not correctly classify a maitreya lara as a bento mesh body.

It's also worth pointing out that just because something is listed on the mp in a category, in no way guarantees that it BELONGS there. It also doesn't guarantee that the product picture will give any clear indication of the actual product.

As for system layers, in an age where "tattoo layers" are actually bom skins, or bom makeup, those categories mean almost nothing as well.

Additionally, as you your self admitted, the "womens tops" category might contain a brand new fitted mesh blouse for a Belleza Gen X Curvy body, and a 19 year old system layer, that frankly, looks like low resolution crap. Your suggestion of using mp categories to sort inventory could not tell the difference between a modern mesh top that fits a particular mesh body, and some obsolete system crap nobody with a brain would still wear.

 

But don't take MY word for it, check the replies from TPV devs like @Coffee Pancake to the various "why isn't SL inventory exactly like IMVSPEW" threads where the same "SL can't currently tell your shirt from your house" answer is often repeated by people who know a damn sight more about SL Tech than YOU.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Drayke Newall]

30 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

LMAO so let me get this right. You say there is no way to categorise content nor is there any categorisation of existing content, however when someone posts that there is and always has been, you say that person has no clue.

Of course there is currently no system as the marketplace and second life are not linked in that way. Doesn't mean they cant be. Also all what you posted is easily fixed with with standards being introduced which, many people in this thread have stated as such, yet you continue to hamper on about no, no that's not possible.

You also say that because users input where their item belongs in the category this opens it up for mistakes and doesn't guarantee the correct category. True, but the same can be said to all those regions that are categorised under shopping places in search yet they offer no stores or things for sale. 

Based on your logic and reasoning this means that Linden Lab should not have categories for search of regions because there is no way for 'the system' to identify what exactly a sim has on it.

Please... if your going to use such pathetic arguments at least try to hide them as better ones.

Every thing anyone puts forward as an option as to why SL needs mobile or is looking forward to mobile or identifies glaring issues with the current system you just rail against it as clearly your one of those that dont like change, everything is ok as it is and oh look a Linden can I have your autograph type.

You are clearly not here for a discussion but to troll. Expect no more discourse from me with you. I dont feed trolls.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Drayke Newall

[animats]

9 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

People want to be social.

 

• There will be much demand for better performance of crowded regions.
• The social features of SL will have to be more like what people expect from social systems. SL groups are really part of the access control system, and do chat as a sideline. This creates problems.
• Mobile users are probably in first person mode most of the time. Or at least not controlling the camera manually. An implication is that camera control needs to improve. The bug where you sit down and the camera is now outside the wall behind you has to be fixed. When you're not sitting, there's an automatic system which tries to keep your camera in sight of the avatar. It's not perfect, but it's there. When sitting, the sit script has control. AVSitter needs to do a ray cast from avatar to camera, and move the camera in towards the avatar to be within any obstacles.
• In general, everything has to Just Work with default settings. Messing with settings is not a thing on mobile.
• Mobile users are not going to go for the "learn to embrace the pain" approach to SL. Things SL users are used to tolerating will generate very negative reviews. LL will finally have to fix region crossings, for example. And the bug where it takes two minutes to get clothing loaded and you're stuck in pink cloud mode.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Based on your logic and reasoning this means that Linden Lab should not have categories for search of regions because there is no way for 'the system' to identify what exactly a sim has on it.

I've always found those "region categories" to be even more pointless and useless then the Destination guide, I wouldn't have a problem with both of those being "streamlined" out of existence.

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Every thing anyone puts forward as an option as to why SL needs mobile

Of course I speak out against that, as I do not .agree that it is true, SL needs mobile cultist dumb-down the way a person with migraines "needs" to be shot in the head with a gun, not at all.

You seem to think that luring in 10,000 people who will conclude they don't like SL and don't want to be here at all, and who will leave within 5 minutes, will magically "improve" SL.

I disagree.

You seem to think that dumbing down SL under the fraudulent "streamlining" label will magically improve SL.

I disagree.

Some people think turning SL into the bastard offspring of IMVSPEW and a low grade First Person Shooter will magically improve SL.

I disagree.

If you want a thread where people who disagree with your nonsense, don't say they disagree, go and start one of those Positivity-Troll threads where disagreeing with you is officially "off-topic".

[Love Zhaoying]

This story is in my Google news feed this morning.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/03/20-years-later-second-life-is-launching-on-mobile/

[EliseAnne85]

14 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

The only thing the name on an object serves is for identification by the user, nothing more. Updates for objects and anything else related to that object are handled by UUID. Adding a new line for the owner isn't necessary at all.
What Linden Lab should do is simply remove editing the name from the no-mod system. The object stays no-mod but the name of the object can be changed.

Thinking more about this, Drayke, if LL takes away the ability for an object to keep it's original name, how would they be able to pull items that are DMCA'd?  I think the original name would have to stay and an additional line added so the OWNER could name the item a second name of their choice.  Then, a choice added in search to search either by Legacy name or Owner name.  

However, in my other post where I said prioritize.  Your response to that, Drayke, seemed to me you were saying prioritizing won't work, but rather what a mobile viewer needs is new ways of doing things that are simplified.  So, the focus then should be on simplification rather than prioritizing.  There are a lot of features in FS that many never use.  I think it needs to be stripped down to what people use the most and really need, and what is just there taking up space that is hardly ever used, be left out altogether.  I still think prioritize is a very important factor.  

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Qie Niangao]

11 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Thinking more about this, Drayke, if LL takes away the ability for an object to keep it's original name, how would they be able to pull items that are DCMA'd?  I think the original name would have to stay and an additional line added so the OWNER could name the item a second name of their choice.  Then, a choice added in search to search either by Legacy name or Owner name.  

However they track the provenance of DMCA'd content, it cannot rely on name, else it would be pointless to DMCA anything with Mod permissions because somebody might change the name. (Oh god, let this not be the origin of a whole new No-Mod superstition among creators!)

Also, no-mod items are renamed all the time, but there's no choice of new names. Drop a Copy No-Mod item "Original Name" into an object's contents. Add another "Original Name" and it gets renamed "Original Name 1". Add another: "Original Name 2". Take a copy of "Original Name 2" back into inventory, then copy it back into the same object's contents: "Original Name 2 1".

(This happens often when creators make mistakes populating multi-sit furniture. Sometimes it's not even a mistake, if using no-mod animations from different animators who happen to use the same name for their different animations.)

Practically, it's a pretty big deal to add a new attribute such as "user supplied name" to the definition of all SL objects. That said, it would also be a pretty big deal to let no-mod objects be renamed: no Linden developer ever wants to touch anything involving permissions; apparently there be monsters in that code.

[EliseAnne85]

35 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

However they track the provenance of DMCA'd content, it cannot rely on name, else it would be pointless to DMCA anything with Mod permissions because somebody might change the name. (Oh god, let this not be the origin of a whole new No-Mod superstition among creators!)

Oh my gah!  Hopefully, not a new superstitious fear of making things mod.  Trust me, I thought of that too - how mod items are re-named and how they (LL) find a re-named item that is DMCA'd.  It sounds a bit of magic to me.   

Anyhow, I doubt it will start a new superstition.  Or, it could work the other way in people will start offering mod always so everything can be re-named and nothing ever DMCA'd.  (I'm joking).

Anyhoo, it was just a suggestion and let it remain just that.

Edited March 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85