superpeeve Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, yes. Which is one reason why I put "naturally" in scare quotes.

The other reason is that "goodness" is really an entirely abstract and utterly human conception -- or at least it is if you don't believe in a divine being. Hence the origin of terms like "humane."

I tend to think of "goodness" as being things that conduce to how well and harmoniously we live with other humans and within communities that are also geared towards that. I don't see it as an "ideal value," something carved on tablets or delivered in a book, but rather (particularly if I am being very cynical, maybe) a recognition of the evolutionary value of living well together.

Remember, as a child, how horrified you were the first time you experienced or witnessed abusive treatment of another (or some other "evil" act) and how you just couldn't fathom how anyone would behave that way? It still happens to me, every day. It didn't make me angry. It hurt. Now it makes me angry and hurt.

[Love Zhaoying]

Peeve: Lack of information makes it hard, even impossible, to judge things sometimes.

I have 3 examples of how family members passed, that as a child I thought were evil, abusive, neglect.

But as an adult and with the missing information, I understand now - what seemed evil and abusive to me as a child, was in fact the only way things could go. 

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

EVER being the crucial word here. This doesn't mean I think everybody is a monster....rather, if I don't see any type of negativity or meanness it can mean they're trying to please everyone, and also perhaps afraid of confrontation.  And so they are presenting a kind of false face. Not always, but I suspect that is the case.

One thing to take into consideration is that some people experience pain when they know they have hurt others.  Being mean to others, is detrimental to their own mental health as they will experience pain themselves.  

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Hmmm you seem to have made some bizarre assumptions from my post. I said:

 "I more distrust people I see very little bile from ever".

EVER being the crucial word here. This doesn't mean I think everybody is a monster....rather, if I don't see any type of negativity or meanness it can mean they're trying to please everyone, and also perhaps afraid of confrontation.  And so they are presenting a kind of false face. Not always, but I suspect that is the case.

Thank you.  I admit that I was having a hard time parsing that sentence to figure out what you meant. I did focus on that crucial word "EVER", though, probably because I'm pretty sure that you would have to search for a long time to find a post from me that has bile in it.  I don't bile easily.  It's not in my nature. I assure you that I am not presenting a false face. As I said earlier, my own baseline self-delusion is that people are basically good, so I suspect that I am not the only one who can make bile-free posts without dissembling.

[Love Zhaoying]

43 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Thank you.  I admit that I was having a hard time parsing that sentence to figure out what you meant. I did focus on that crucial word "EVER", though, probably because I'm pretty sure that you would have to search for a long time to find a post from me that has bile in it.  I don't bile easily.  It's not in my nature. I assure you that I am not presenting a false face. As I said earlier, my own baseline self-delusion is that people are basically good, so I suspect that I am not the only one who can make bile-free posts without dissembling.

Some people have good attitudes towards others from many factors: their nature, upbringing, life experience, and maturity being examples. I like to think of you as mature and kind. 

Peeve: kindness is not always a default for everyone.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People are complicated.  Good/Evil are very blunt terms to describe most.  I believe we are more a melting pot of different things all mixed together in a chaotic mix.

Was pointed out to me years ago that instead of looking at people as being good or evil, to view them as well as myself as being mentally, emotionally and spiritually sick or healthy or somewhere in between. Jesus and other spiritual teachers in past came as healers of the sick (physical, emotional and spiritual) rather then coming to make evil people good. So one is not a bad person trying to be good but rather a sick person trying to become well.

But as Luna pointed out already, a lot of us live in a state of denial and unable to see how sick we really are.

[Istelathis]

10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Was pointed out to me years ago that instead of looking at people as being good or evil, to view them as well as myself as being mentally, emotionally and spiritually sick or healthy or somewhere in between. Jesus and other spiritual teachers in past came as healers of the sick (physical, emotional and spiritual) rather then coming to make evil people good. So one is not a bad person trying to be good but rather a sick person trying to become well.

But as Luna pointed out already, a lot of us live in a state of denial and unable to see how sick we really are.

The problem I find is that we don't necessarily know what is or isn't sick all of the time.  What we see as a sickness, might be a symptom of our own illness, and our drive to heal others although done with the best of intentions may cause more hardship to others.

For others, being told they are sick and in need of treatment only causes them more harm.  It is quite a mess we are all in, a madhouse I tellz ya!

 

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

As I said earlier, my own baseline self-delusion is that people are basically good, so I suspect that I am not the only one who can make bile-free posts without dissembling.

I think the problem maybe, Rolig (for me), is that I don't really trust people until I see how they react when they're angry. I can't see that with you too well, so I feel distrustful.

Pet Peeve: My upbringing still haunts me.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Istelathis said:

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

EVER being the crucial word here. This doesn't mean I think everybody is a monster....rather, if I don't see any type of negativity or meanness it can mean they're trying to please everyone, and also perhaps afraid of confrontation.  And so they are presenting a kind of false face. Not always, but I suspect that is the case.

One thing to take into consideration is that some people experience pain when they know they have hurt others.  Being mean to others, is detrimental to their own mental health as they will experience pain themselves.  

Yes, IFnjptiqu whatever we are...never more true for those types..

[Istelathis]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, IFnjptiqu whatever we are...never more true for those types..

INTJPUVWXYZ 🙃 I have a hard time recalling which one I am also.

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think the problem maybe, Rolig (for me), is that I don't really trust people until I see how they react when they're angry. I can't see that with you too well, so I feel distrustful.

Sorry about that. It's likely to be a long wait.  

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Pet Peeve: My upbringing still haunts me.

I think most people can say that. I can, anyway.

Peeve: I totally forgot that this is a peeve thread. I didn't mean to derail it.

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think the problem maybe, Rolig (for me), is that I don't really trust people until I see how they react when they're angry. I can't see that with you too well, so I feel distrustful.

Sorry about that. It's likely to be a long wait.  

It would be fun to attempt to change that, and I bet I could.

PET PEEVE:  New rules here and we must behave.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Scylla Rhiadra]

37 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Was pointed out to me years ago that instead of looking at people as being good or evil, to view them as well as myself as being mentally, emotionally and spiritually sick or healthy or somewhere in between. Jesus and other spiritual teachers in past came as healers of the sick (physical, emotional and spiritual) rather then coming to make evil people good. So one is not a bad person trying to be good but rather a sick person trying to become well.

But as Luna pointed out already, a lot of us live in a state of denial and unable to see how sick we really are.

Define "sick" and "healthy," in this context?

[Ceka Cianci]

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

With some types of humor, an actual part of the joke is to make people wonder, inititally, whether the joke teller is being serious or making a joke. This creates an element of surprise, which is a major component of humor.

Pet Peeve: Humor is fun, but can be the source of troubles in communication.

Not the way I does it! \o/

[Arielle Popstar]

25 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Define "sick" and "healthy," in this context?

• dysfunctional
• flawed
• broken
• defective
• inhibited
• maladjusted
• malfunctional
• undermined
• unfit
• wounded

healthy would be a lack of any of those.

[Belephannt]

5 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

But ... if you're not alive and you're not dead, what are you?  

this elephant thinks you are an American, speaking as an American elephant in America so I can make fun of us

my pet peeve is living in America

Edited August 11, 2023 by Belephannt

[Scylla Rhiadra]

24 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

• dysfunctional
• flawed
• broken
• defective
• inhibited
• maladjusted
• malfunctional
• undermined
• unfit
• wounded

healthy would be a lack of any of those.

These aren't terribly useful, because they all suffer from the same lack of context and precision as "sick" and "healthy."

"Dysfunctional" suggests a "function" -- what is it?

"Unfit" . . . for what?

Flawed or broken in what way(s)?

I'm not challenging your view, Arielle, I just don't understand what exactly it MEANS.

[Orwar]

8 minutes ago, Belephannt said:

this elephant thinks you are an American, speaking as an American elephant in America so I can make fun of us

my pet peeve is living in America

   Bah, I don't live in America and I make fun of them all the time!

[Belephannt]

3 minutes ago, Orwar said:

17 minutes ago, Belephannt said:

this elephant thinks you are an American, speaking as an American elephant in America so I can make fun of us

my pet peeve is living in America

   Bah, I don't live in America and I make fun of them all the time!

you should, Orwar.

this elephant did not want to get into trouble for being political

my pet peeve is living here

Edited August 11, 2023 by Belephannt

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Orwar said:

   Bah, I don't live in America and I make fun of them all the time!

 

[Arielle Popstar]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

These aren't terribly useful, because they all suffer from the same lack of context and precision as "sick" and "healthy."

"Dysfunctional" suggests a "function" -- what is it?

"Unfit" . . . for what?

Flawed or broken in what way(s)?

I'm not challenging your view, Arielle, I just don't understand what exactly it MEANS.

Not much different from what you said in a previous post:

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

I too believe that humans are "naturally" good -- in the sense that hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of years of cultural evolution have demonstrated that we recognize the value of community and connection. We have evidence that Neanderthals cared for the aged and the sick, something that in purely evolutionary terms makes no sense whatsoever. And, we have developed the ideas of "right and wrong," of ethics and morality, however we may sometimes distort these.

At the same time, of course we are all "mixed." Some of what is "bad" or "immoral" about us as individuals is undoubtedly hard-wired, but a great deal derives from social conditioning, our upbringing and experiences, etc.

I know that I have racist or homophobic impulses. Hell, I know that I am sexist and misogynist. Most of us, I suspect, are at some level or another: it would be almost impossible not to harbour such notions given the world in which we live.

True "goodness" or "morality," I think, consists not of eradicating these tendencies, which is likely impossible (and maybe even undesirable), but rather in recognizing and acknowledging their existence, and working hard not to give them voice or allow them to dictate how we think or what we do. Which is where critical thinking and critical self-awareness come into play.

I don't think "goodness" is a static quality. It comes into being when we actively struggle to be good, in spite of our own demons.

The difference being the labelling of good/evil vs sick/healthy. The difference may seem moot but the good/evil label requires a judge for its resolution whereas the sick/healthy needs a healer. When one chooses to put it all into the perspective of good and evil, it automatically forces one to start judging the behaviours of others and that is not healthy.

[kali Wylder]

When I ponder whether people are innately good or evil, I am forced to conclude that it's not a dichotomy at all.  People are good and evil.  I think most people want to think of themselves as good and will behave that way as long as it's not in conflict with their own best interests. I know that I am constantly struggling between what's good for me and what's best for everyone.  Some people struggle with that more than others.  

Then there are some people who've become all twisted up inside and you can't always tell from the outside that they are. But even those damaged people may have a spark of goodness still.  My ex husband was extraordinarily kind to insects, never killing them, always making that extra effort to escort them out of the house. 

[Ceka Cianci]

I bet if we looked back in time when good and evil was invented, we'll find someone trying to control a bunch of other someones.. hehehe

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

8 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

With some types of humor, an actual part of the joke is to make people wonder, inititally, whether the joke teller is being serious or making a joke. This creates an element of surprise, which is a major component of humor.

Pet Peeve: Humor is fun, but can be the source of troubles in communication.

Not the way I does it! \o/

Yes I wouldn't figure a down-to-earth woman such as yourself would do such a thing. And that's quite possibly a good thing.

[Orwar]

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I bet if we looked back in time when good and evil was invented, we'll find someone trying to control a bunch of other someones.. hehehe

   Like that one time Ra, the God of the Gods, got old and senile, and his human subjects kind of felt like he maybe didn't deserve his worship, especially when he forgets to do his main thing of putting the sun in the skies so a lot of them died. So he decided humanity was being ungrateful, tore out his eye and unleashed Sekhmet to slaughter them dead, then saw Egypt run red and changed his mind, subdued the lioness by spiking her drink, split her divine essence to create Bast (or Hathor, depending on who you ask) and a more mellow Sekhmet, and retired. Wait, was he good or evil?