Un ban people from the Casper help group

[Paul Hexem]

On 9/14/2022 at 8:16 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

There is at least one well-known Forumite who has repeatedly told us they were banned from LL's JIRA.  However, they are not banned from in-world, or the Forums.

Assuming they were banned form LL's JIRA for good and "just" reasons:  Do you agree this is an example of having "support withheld", where LL is "in the right" to withhold support?  Or do you disagree?

As far as I know, the JIRA is a separate system than the forums and world, which is why the bans there would be separate.

As for the topic at hand, I find it interesting (as someone that advocates for free speech everywhere possible and agrees that no one should be banned now that it's a Linden property) that it always seems like the people that argue the hardest for free speech in places it doesn't apply always exhibit terrible spelling and grammar. I wonder what that's about?

[Crim Mip]

Freedom of speech doesn't apply to private entities.

[Charalyne Blackwood]

45 minutes ago, Crim Mip said:

Freedom of speech doesn't apply to private entities.

It astounds me how many people try to be right while completely misquoting the Constitution 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

59 minutes ago, Charalyne Blackwood said:

It astounds me how many people try to be right while completely misquoting the Constitution 

It does not, it only applies to what you can say about the goverment.  a private company is not the government and can handle anything how they want, it is their right as a company.

[Love Zhaoying]

On 9/16/2022 at 6:53 PM, Paul Hexem said:

As for the topic at hand, I find it interesting (as someone that advocates for free speech everywhere possible and agrees that no one should be banned now that it's a Linden property) that it always seems like the people that argue the hardest for free speech in places it doesn't apply always exhibit terrible spelling and grammar. I wonder what that's about?

I am very good at making excuses for other people!

Some options:

1) They may be, to put it delicately, less educated.

2) They may be of a younger generation or other demographic that simply does not care about their spelling or grammar, as they expect everyone to understand what they mean and respect them anyway.

3) They may be so upset by the discussion that all attempts to spell or use proper grammar "go out the window".  I saw one recent poster who started off fine, then later it was all "Y" and "U", etc.  So in times of  stress, they may revert to text-speak.

4) They just don't care. Should we care what they think, if they are so inclined to not care how they present themselves? Should we respect them, if they disrespect us by making it so difficult to understand them?  Just some thoughts..

5) English may not be their first language.

[Studcrusher]

On 9/14/2022 at 5:28 PM, Casper Warden said:

Hello everyone

I've asked the team to remove all our existing group bans, so we'll reset from scratch. Please note that you are still expected to adhere to the group rules. Things like abuse or racism/hate speech WILL get you an instant ban.

Please note that we have never banned people from getting support. Our ticket system is the primary avenue for support.

It might take a little while for the bans to be lifted, but please file a ticket if you would like access. 

~Casper

 

A handy link would b dandy.

[Zidaya Zenovka]

There's no such thing as free speech in Second Life or even in real life. Freedom of speech applies only to a US citizens right to protest their government. "Free speech is not absolute – US law does recognize a number of important restrictions to free speech. These include obscenity, fraud, child pornography, harassment, incitement to illegal conduct and imminent lawless action, true threats, and commercial speech such as advertising, copyright or patent rights."

https://theconversation.com/the-idolization-of-free-speech-in-the-united-states-155778#:~:text=Free speech is not absolute,advertising%2C copyright or patent rights.

That aside it's important to remember that if you're starting or joining in arguments in a help group (or just being disrespectful or acting rude and/or entitled) you're gonna have a bad time. If your business means that much to you then you should endeavor to treat people in a respectful manner and not act like just because you run a business people are supposed to wait on you hand and foot. You're no more or less special than the next person needing assistance. You should feel grateful the bans aren't carrying over and do your best to take it for what it is-a second chance. 

[Lewis Luminos]

On 9/15/2022 at 1:16 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

Assuming they were banned form LL's JIRA for good and "just" reasons:  Do you agree this is an example of having "support withheld", where LL is "in the right" to withhold support?  Or do you disagree?

 

I disagree, because the purpose of the JIRA is not to get support, it's for reporting bugs.  The proper avenues for getting support are either the Freshdesk ticket system (https://support.secondlife.com/create-case/), or live chat, or phone support for billing issues. Not the JIRA. So, someone banned fron the JIRA can still get support in exactly the same ways as anyone who is not banned from it.

As for free speech - total free speech, where you can say literally anything you want, doesn't really exist anywhere in the world, because just about every nation on Earth has at least some laws about what you are and are not allowed to say.  In countries like the US, UK etc, free speech means only that you are allowed to protest against your government. There are still laws restricting hate speech, incitement, terrorism, child porn, copyright,  etc. In other countries like Russia, China, North Korea, it's speech against the government that is prohibited. 

There are a few places that don't fall under any nation's jurisdiction, such as the middle of the pacific ocean, or the North Sentinelese Islands, for example. You can probably get away with true free speech there. But there will be no-one to hear you.

Free speech is also further restricted by the owner of the venue in which you are located. Online, that's the owner of the forum you're on. On this forum, that's Linden Lab.  When you sign up for such a service, you automatically agree to the Terms of Service (whether you read it or not) and those TOS will determine what you are and are not allowed to say on that forum. If you disagree with a forum's TOS, your only recourse is to cancel your account. This is exactly why Donald Trump created his own social media service, it's the only way he could say what he wants without getting kicked out. But even in a case like this, there are still some restrictions based on the laws of the country in which the servers are located. 

[Nalates Urriah]

Wow... I am always saddened that so few understand America's Constitution.

First Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It seems obvious to me that this is about "Limiting what the Government can do", not the citizens.

So while anyone can say ANYTHING they want, they are held accountable for what they say and any damage they cause. Many consider the laws defining "responsibility" of one's speech to limit speech. While it is a nuanced point and more complex than "you can't say that", it is an important nuance.

The result is the Lab and support groups can make rules about what people can't say. The government can't.

[LittleMe Jewell]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:16 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

I am treading gingerly here..

There is at least one well-known Forumite who has repeatedly told us they were banned from LL's JIRA.  However, they are not banned from in-world, or the Forums.

Assuming they were banned form LL's JIRA for good and "just" reasons:  Do you agree this is an example of having "support withheld", where LL is "in the right" to withhold support?  Or do you disagree?

The JIRA system is for reporting bugs and requesting new features.  Even if one is banned from there, they can still enter Support tickets and thus Support is not being withheld.  As to LL's right to withhold support, yes they are entitled to do so if they want.

Edited September 25, 2022 by LittleMe Jewell