A few techincal questions

[Teresa Firelight]

I know that people can fly above our linden homes (over 400M elevation until 2000M elevation) and that orbs are not to bother them in that elevation range. But I am wondering about the parcel settings for "allow object entry" and "run scripts."   If we have object entry set to group, can people not in our group still fly aircraft, etc onto our parcel between 400-2000M elevation? And if "run scripts" is set to group, will their scripted objects work at the "permitted" elevations.

Finally, many of us use pretty close to our 371 LI allowance at our homes. If we allow "object entry" and are already at (or near) our LI allowance, how does entry of other people's objects (say a dragon or plane they are flying) effect our home? Can it cause the LI to overflow and cause some of our objects to be returned due to not enough LI allowance on the parcel?

[Abnor Mole]

Vehicles (and objects people are sitting on) are handled differently than normal non-physical objects. Not allowing object entry will not keep out a vehicle. It also will allow any object to move into the parcel if a person is sitting on it. That is what allows you to rez something on your land and edit move it outside the parcel if you sit on it first. In both cases however, if the object would overflow the parcel then the object is not allowed in (if the person is just sitting on it) or it is returned to the owner when the person stands (in the case of a vehicle). Their object is not allowed to be moved into the parcel or is returned, not any of yours.

Special note: If the object would not overflow the parcel the object WILL stay on the parcel, even if they do not have rezzing rights.*

Most vehicles will also work just fine if you have scripts turned off for everyone (Although I've never personally seen the point. There are so many ways to grief a person if you really wanted to that don't rely on scripts working that it doesn't really serve much of a purpose other than an added annoyance to legitimate guests.) The most that usually happens is if they use a HUD the vehicle doesn't respond to it, but the keyboard control inputs to move/turn/etc still do.

*This is why you occasionally see a boat or an airplane buzzing away in someone's parcel even though Object Entry is unchecked and they have "locked down" rezzing and scripts on the parcel but no autoreturn. The person driving has either left, crashed, had a bad region crossing, etc leaving the vehicle behind. THIS is why autoreturn is your friend and I always highly encourage people learn to use it rather than only relying on just turning everything off and assuming that will do the trick. With a reasonable autoreturn setting you can usually leave many of those other things open for the most part without too many worries. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Abnor Mole

[Quartz Mole]

12 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

If we have object entry set to group, can people not in our group still fly aircraft, etc onto our parcel between 400-2000M elevation? And if "run scripts" is set to group, will their scripted objects work at the "permitted" elevations.

Just to add to what Abnor said, according to the Wiki, 

Quote

If a script has taken controls, it and other scripts in the same prim will not be stopped if the Agent enters a "No Outside Scripts" parcel. This is done to keep vehicle control alive and AOs functional. This is an intentional feature.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlTakeControls

So, assuming the scripter knows what they're doing, the "run scripts" setting shouldn't affect vehicles entering the parcel (or your guests' AOs) and they'll continue to function regardless.. 

That's  why -- and I must stress this is only  my personal view and not an official recommendation from  LDPW or LL -- setting scripts to group only is a bit of a waste of time, since it won't stop a griefer with even a basic knowledge of scripting and simply inconveniences everyone else.      

[Abnor Mole]

There area lot of misconceptions about how the land setting work and people who simply don't know or understand. I once had someone with a 0 warning orb teleporting people home argue they needed it because strangers were leaving thing on their parcel. The parcel was set completely open with no autoreturn so the orb was not stopping anyone from rezzing objects on their land, but they were still convinced it did because they hadn't had anything left on their parcel since.

[Teresa Firelight]

Thank you Arbor and Quartz for your helpful answers, I learned something.

Just to clarify.. I am not worried about grieffers -- I did not want to ruin someone's flight when they are legitimately flying over Bellisseria.

I am a very G-rated gal and I keep scripts off because of multiple times finding people with sex huds banging parts in my bed (which has no adult animations built into it). Usually I dont use security orbs and dont mind well behaved explorers and guests, but I do forbid object entry for non-group members.

So the way I understand your answers, I can leave "run scripts" and "object entry" as group only-- and this will not interfere with someone's ability to fly around Bellisseria should they happen to fly over my home.

[Abnor Mole]

38 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

So the way I understand your answers, I can leave "run scripts" and "object entry" as group only-- and this will not interfere with someone's ability to fly around Bellisseria should they happen to fly over my home.

Yes, yes you can. Unfortunately, even if scripts and object entry are off an enterprising person could still find a way to "bang parts" in your PG bed if they are that determined. 🙄

[Always Incognito]

13 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

Yes, yes you can. Unfortunately, even if scripts and object entry are off an enterprising person could still find a way to "bang parts" in your PG bed if they are that determined. 🙄

Seriously! Im at work and read this on my Coffee break. I cant stop giggling now and my work mates are starting to look in my direction… 🤣🤣🤣

[Love Zhaoying]

14 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

person could still find a way to "bang parts"

"Bang parts" is a..techincal term.

[Quartz Mole]

20 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Thank you Arbor and Quartz for your helpful answers, I learned something.

Just to clarify.. I am not worried about grieffers -- I did not want to ruin someone's flight when they are legitimately flying over Bellisseria.

I am a very G-rated gal and I keep scripts off because of multiple times finding people with sex huds banging parts in my bed (which has no adult animations built into it). Usually I dont use security orbs and dont mind well behaved explorers and guests, but I do forbid object entry for non-group members.

So the way I understand your answers, I can leave "run scripts" and "object entry" as group only-- and this will not interfere with someone's ability to fly around Bellisseria should they happen to fly over my home.

Yes, if people's vehicles are properly scripted, then having "run scripts" set to group only shouldn't affect the vehicles.

However, setting "run scripts" to group only shouldn't affect the sex hud, either (at least assuming the scripter was half-way competent and its owner attached it before entering your parcel), while setting object creation and object entry to group only would prevent it rezzing any pose balls.

If, however, you have scripts set to "group only" and one of your friends who isn't a member of your land group tries to attach a HUD or other scripted object while they're visiting you, they'll find it doesn't work for them until they leave the parcel.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Quartz Mole

[Abnor Mole]

27 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

setting object creation and object entry to group only would prevent it rezzing any pose balls

But... they could rez poseballs outside the parcel where rezzing is allowed, sit on them, select the best animation of their preferred aforementioned banging of said parts, and then edit move them into the parcel where rezzing is not allowed. Where there is a willy there is a way.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Abnor Mole

[Quartz Mole]

9 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

But... they could rez poseballs outside the parcel where rezzing is allowed, sit on them, select the best animation of their preferred aforementioned banging of said parts, and then edit move them into the parcel where rezzing is not allowed. Where there is a willy there is a way.

So you'd need one of our security orbs to eject the sitters, too, thus ensuring any banging doesn't last very long.

 

 

[Abnor Mole]

I think what were saying is no matter what settings you use "people are gonna people". My personal recommendation is to take those sort of things in stride as part of living in a vast virtual world where anything is possible. Rather than getting upset (even justifiably) I would do any or all of the following:

• Kick and ban them
• Point, laugh and compliment them on both their alts
• Give them a landmark to a free part banging region
• Rez an invisible object near them I can touch that makes the 'taking a snapshot' sound over and over
• Start talking to them like I'm the world's worst dirty movie director
• Send them links to the page where they can get their own home

or my personal favorite (assuming they are sitting on something I own and can modify):

Copy drag it outside with them on it and drop in a script that makes it temp, physical, with just a touch of negative gravity... and watch as they bump their way off into the sky to parts unknown.

Not that I have ever actually done any of that. 🤭

 

[animats]

Here's what I'd like as a feature in this area: tighten up teleport routing.

If you have a teleport destination set for a parcel, and it's set to BLOCKED or LANDING POINT, you're not supposed to be able to teleport to anywhere else within the parcel. But there's a loophole - you can cam through walls and  sit on things. I'd like to see that loophole plugged. Either forbid sitting while camming, or require an unobstructed path from avatar to seat. (Unobstructed means that llCastRay doesn't detect an obstacle.)

Now, if we had that, locked doors would keep people out. Just lock your doors and no one can get in. Set your landing point to outside your front door. People can teleport to your front door, but that's as far as they can get unless the door is unlocked or someone authorized opens it for them.

Bellessaria houses seem to be airtight for collision purposes. They already have a door lock system. So this would solve the intrusion problem for Bellessaria residents. Their pre-built setup is ready.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by animats

[Nika Talaj]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:22 AM, Teresa Firelight said:

I am a very G-rated gal and I keep scripts off because of multiple times finding people with sex huds banging parts in my bed (which has no adult animations built into it). Usually I dont use security orbs and dont mind well behaved explorers and guests, but I do forbid object entry for non-group members.

Two questions about this:

1.   Has this been happening at your Belli homes?  I ask because when I furnish a home, I put one of my own visitor counter scripts in it, which records (and informs me real-time0 whenever a visitor comes on the parcel, and how long they stay.  So I am quite sure that I've never had this happening on my Belli properties.  In Eden, yes.  Long, long ago in Steelhead, yes.  Even in The Grove, yes.  And of course, long ago on mainland.  But unless I've publicized that I'm giving something away, I have few visitors in Belli, and they pass through in less than 2 minutes.  Now, my properties, tho quite open, are not listed in the Parade of Homes, and I bet yours are.  I wonder if that makes a difference?

[BTW, in Eden and The Grove this issue dropped way down when I had that script simply greet all visitors who are not in-group when they arrived.  You might try that, it kind of makes casual visitors pause, I think.  Except for one set of repeat visitors in Eden who didn't stop coming to use our sauna until I had the script greet them by name, state how many times they'd visited recently, and set off an explosion in the sauna 30 seconds after they arrived.  Good times.]

2.  As Quartz pointed out, if someone attaches a sex hud before entering your parcel, neither turning scripts nor object entry off will impede their activities.  That hud is essentially an AO.  And they might not even be sitting on any furniture.  OTOH, having scripts off will greatly impede any vehicle user who uses a HUD, as opposed to vehicle menus, to control their craft (fairly common nowadays).  So don't be surprised if you see crashed vehicles pretty often.

1 hour ago, animats said:

Either forbid sitting while camming, or require an unobstructed path from avatar to seat. (Unobstructed means that llCastRay doesn't detect an obstacle.)

Now, if we had that, locked doors would keep people out. Just lock your doors and no one can get in.

Cam-sitting is useful in MANY situations other than furtive part banging.  Some places are even designed so that people who have low FPS can navigate in them just by cam-sitting.  Personally, losing that ability would irritate me quite a bit.

And detecting unobstructed paths for cam-sits sounds to me like a bug festival waiting to happen.

[Polenth Yue]

I locked all the doors open and some of the windows. That means it's publicly viewable from outside the parcel and would break the adult content rules. Anyone who sees it could AR them on that basis. You can't really stop people doing stuff if they're determined, but you can make it as not-worth-it as possible.

Mostly though, I've seen more issues with object griefing. Autoreturn deals with that, but not everyone turns it on. It also has to be said that for some reason, having a small purple mushroom arrive does wonders for destroying people's libido. There was that time a naked griefer was trying to flash people on the mainland, saw my dot on the map, jumped over the wall to reach me... took one look at me and ran away.

[animats]

2 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

Some places are even designed so that people who have low FPS can navigate in them just by cam-sitting. 

Where?

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

3 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

Cam-sitting is useful in MANY situations other than furtive part banging. 

100%. I use it often when I wind up in a store or shopping event that for some stupid reason has a landing point set so that you can't TP to whatever display you want to see. If I can find something nearby to sit on, and there usually is something, then I can get to where I want to be, buy what I want, and get out quickly without having to fight lag and high complexity mesh booties. I think the benefits far outweigh any security concerns, especially when we do have orbs and other solutions available to address unwelcome "guests". 

[Nika Talaj]

1 hour ago, animats said:

Where?

Shopping, for example.

Go to Lelutka's main store, the generally crowded, all-white palace of heads.  See a few modern white lounge chairs placed at quite a distance from each other, one in every major shopping area?  Those are not decor - you see how spartan the store design is.  They are so folks can quickly jump from place to place.  The polite shopper cam-sits to the desired area, then stands and staggers a few steps away so that someone else can do the same.

Look at Belleza, which has red couches placed in different rooms.  That is not just decor, it is very easy to find transport for cam-sitters.

Look at Trompe L'Oiel.  On each floor, Cory has placed some sort of seats or beds out on the floor where they can be easily seen and used, as opposed to just in the wall vendor areas.  Few people actually walk to the central stairway and up the many stairs.

Double clicking to TP is not as reliable as it used to be, now that mesh floors are everywhere.  And generally I don't bother to find a TP board, wait for the textures to rez, and use it - particularly as I may not choose the right product category.  I either cam around or area search for something like what I want ... like "EVO" or "bed" or "outdoor" ... find something similar to what I want, and camsit near it.

I totally understand that this may not be your method of shopping.  But ... I am not alone!

[Always Incognito]

22 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

But... they could rez poseballs outside the parcel where rezzing is allowed, sit on them, select the best animation of their preferred aforementioned banging of said parts, and then edit move them into the parcel where rezzing is not allowed. Where there is a willy there is a way.

”dies” 🥹😅🤣 You explain this so explicit that i can see it in front of me. How dedicated they are🤣 But I really want to ”un-see” it now, as Im at work (late lunch), how do i do that? 🫣😝🤔

[Quartz Mole]

On 9/13/2022 at 6:41 PM, Nika Talaj said:

OTOH, having scripts off will greatly impede any vehicle user who uses a HUD, as opposed to vehicle menus, to control their craft (fairly common nowadays).  So don't be surprised if you see crashed vehicles pretty often.

That's only an issue if whoever scripted the HUD forgot to request PERMISSION_TAKE_CONTROLS in the attach event, though, or, if they did, they then failed to call llTakeControls in the run_time_permissions event, isn't it?  You don't  have to do anything with the controls once you've taken them (there doesn't even need to be a control event) for the script to keep working -- the simple fact it has taken controls is enough to protect it from no script parcels.

I'd have hoped anyone who was scripting a control HUD for a vehicle would know to do that.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Quartz Mole

[Karl Herber]

On 9/13/2022 at 4:38 PM, Abnor Mole said:

I think what were saying is no matter what settings you use "people are gonna people". My personal recommendation is to take those sort of things in stride as part of living in a vast virtual world where anything is possible. Rather than getting upset (even justifiably) I would do any or all of the following:

• Kick and ban them
• Point, laugh and compliment them on both their alts
• Give them a landmark to a free part banging region
• Rez an invisible object near them I can touch that makes the 'taking a snapshot' sound over and over
• Start talking to them like I'm the world's worst dirty movie director
• Send them links to the page where they can get their own home

or my personal favorite (assuming they are sitting on something I own and can modify):

Copy drag it outside with them on it and drop in a script that makes it temp, physical, with just a touch of negative gravity... and watch as they bump their way off into the sky to parts unknown.

Not that I have ever actually done any of that. 🤭

 

Thats similar to what I did once, many years ago. I logged in to my home to find a couple banging away on my roof. I have no idea why they chose the roof, when I had a perfectly serviceable adult bed underneath it. Anyway, there they were on the roof, all the moaning and ooh-aaah-ing in local chat. So I...

...turned my house phantom. 

They dropped straight through to the downstairs room where I was standing. The guy teleported away immediately. The girl stayed long enough to apologise and then followed him.

I wish I'd thought of doing the "dirty movie director" thing.

[Teresa Firelight]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:38 AM, Abnor Mole said:

 

• Rez an invisible object near them I can touch that makes the 'taking a snapshot' sound over and over
• Start talking to them like I'm the world's worst dirty movie director

or my personal favorite (assuming they are sitting on something I own and can modify):

Copy drag it outside with them on it and drop in a script that makes it temp, physical, with just a touch of negative gravity... and watch as they bump their way off into the sky to parts unknown.

Not that I have ever actually done any of that. 🤭

 

Wow Arbor, I never realized what a "mean steak" you have....

jk... great post tough. That taking a snapshot sound is an amazing idea.

[Teresa Firelight]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:41 AM, Nika Talaj said:

Two questions about this:

1.   Has this been happening at your Belli homes?

Yes more than once. They were not super scripters or anything... turning off scripts got rid of them

(Happened with two different couples in two different homes).

[Teresa Firelight]

Hum.. .it seems like our moles would make powerful grieffers if they wanted to ... @Patch Lindenyou better keep them busy so they dont have time/energy to try out any of their potential "dark" powers.  <grin>

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

3 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Hum.. .it seems like our moles would make powerful grieffers if they wanted to ... @Patch Lindenyou better keep them busy so they dont have time/energy to try out any of their potential "dark" powers.  <grin>

Hush, I'm taking notes.