Forum Advice

[diamond Marchant]

I was disappointed that A clean break and a rebranding for Linden Lab? was closed due to "drifted off into far wider issues than the original topic". A rereading indicates to me that the thread was compromised by politics. The bait was cast by an individual and others took the bait. I thought this thread was very interesting and wished it had continued. The participants appear informed and sophisticated. The Second Life forum is a treasure for those trying to learn about virtual worlds.

To moderators... please understand that Second Life is not an island. What goes in RL is very relevant to Second Life, particularly when one is discussing issues about how future virtual worlds or metaverses will operate. It is hard to discuss these issues without touching upon issues such as governance, monetization, disinformation, rights, etc. I believe there is a context for political debate within Second Life forums.

To forum participants... please, above all, stick to ideas and have in mind what the thread is about. Try not to make anything personal and try not to take any bait. And if you can, don't go on and on and on.... or repost what you just said. Few want to read a looooooong post and most of us understand something the first time.

Edited August 6, 2022 by diamond Marchant
usual typos

[Scylla Rhiadra]

15 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I was disappointed that A clean break and a rebranding for Linden Lab? was closed due to "drifted off into far wider issues than the original topic". A rereading indicates to me that the thread was compromised by politics. The bait was cast by an individual and others took the bait. I thought this thread was very interesting and wished it had continued. The participants appear informed and sophisticated. The Second Life forum is a treasure for those trying to learn about virtual worlds.

To moderators... please understand that Second Life is not an island. What goes in RL is very relevant to Second Life, particularly when one is discussing issues about how future virtual worlds or metaverses will operate. It is hard to discuss these issues without touching upon issues such as governance, monetization, disinformation, rights, etc. I believe there is a context for political debate within Second Life forums.

To forum participants... please, above all, stick to ideas and have in mind what the thread is about. Try not to make anything personal and try not to take any bait. And if you can, don't go on and on and on.... or repost what you just said. Few want to read a looooooong post and most of us understand something the first time.

This is, in many ways, a brand new forum. A huge amount of the content that formerly populated this board is now disallowed -- and not just the "politics." And honestly, it's still not entirely clear precisely what is allowed here. Brief off-topic jokes and mini-derails? I suspect so. Guerilla political postings that are sometimes actually intended to provoke a response that will result in suspensions? Maybe.

I agree with what you say (in most respects), but it's important to recognize that 1) some posters here aren't going to be aware of the new rules, 2) many of us are still trying to determine how best to comport ourselves under this new system, and 3) the mods themselves are still feeling their way through it.

It's going, I think, to be a complicated negotiation between all of us, as well as the mods, before all of those elements settle, and we have an established and generally well-understood approach to this place. So, I think a bit of patience is required as we all figure out this complicated dance.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra
Missing words

[Quartz Mole]

14 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I was disappointed that A clean break and a rebranding for Linden Lab? was closed due to "drifted off into far wider issues than the original topic". A rereading indicates to me that the thread was compromised by politics. The bait was cast by an individual and others took the bait. I thought this thread was very interesting and wished it had continued. The participants appear informed and sophisticated. The Second Life forum is a treasure for those trying to learn about virtual worlds.

To moderators... please understand that Second Life is not an island. What goes in RL is very relevant to Second Life, particularly when one is discussing issues about how future virtual worlds or metaverses will operate. It is hard to discuss these issues without touching upon issues such as governance, monetization, disinformation, rights, etc. I believe there is a context for political debate within Second Life forums.

To forum participants... please, above all, stick to ideas and have in mind what the thread is about. Try not to make anything personal and try not to take any bait. And if you can, don't go on and on and on.... or repost what you just said. Few want to read a looooooong post and most of us understand something the first time.

You're welcome to start another thread to discuss the issues raised by that thread as they concern Second Life.   

However, if it goes off into wider discussions about social media and how they might be weaponised, then it will be closed, because that's a debate that could take place anywhere.

[Rowan Amore]

15 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

You're welcome to start another thread to discuss the issues raised by that thread as they concern Second Life.   

However, if it goes off into wider discussions about social media and how they might be weaponised, then it will be closed, because that's a debate that could take place anywhere.

I'm also waiting on some clarification as to nudity and whether it is now allowed in the Adult forum sections.

[Quartz Mole]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm also waiting on some clarification as to nudity and whether it is now allowed in the Adult forum sections.

My interpretation of the surface meaning of the words "No Nudity or Adult Content: All content posted on the Second Life Forums must be rated “General” per our Maturity Ratings. Keep in mind, this does not include content posted specifically in the 'Adult Content Forum' section" is that the general prohibition on Nudity and Adult Content  presumably does not apply to content posted specifically in the Adult Content Forum (I can't think what else the qualification might mean), but since you messaged me about it, I've sent a message to the member of the Governance team on duty today (it being a weekend) to ask them to confirm this, and am waiting for a reply.

As soon as I receive one, I'll reply to you.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Quartz Mole said:

My interpretation of the surface meaning of the words "No Nudity or Adult Content: All content posted on the Second Life Forums must be rated “General” per our Maturity Ratings. Keep in mind, this does not include content posted specifically in the 'Adult Content Forum' section" is that the general prohibition on Nudity and Adult Content  presumably does not apply to content posted specifically in the Adult Content Forum (I can't think what else the qualification might mean), but since you messaged me about it, I've sent a message to the member of the Governance team on duty today (it being a weekend) to ask them to confirm this, and am waiting for a reply.

As soon as I receive one, I'll reply to you.

I assumed, as before, adult discussions needed to be in the adult section.  Thank you very much for looking into this for me.  I have some nude photos anxiously waiting your reply.  

[Quartz Mole]

The advice I have now received is that yes, nude images taken in SL (as opposed to RL nude photos, which would be OT for SL) are now allowed in the Adult Forums.   

 

[Seicher Rae]

When I read the OP and glanced that the last post was by a moderator, I figured "oh another thread closed, sigh" and I was guessing why.

I'm pleasantly surprised and happy to be wrong. Thank you @Quartz Mole for once again directly posting into a thread to explain things. I have been vocally and publically skeptical of the changes, and these posts of yours help in a lot of ways. I've been around the SL Forums a long time, have been burned many a time by them, and so I am still skeptical, wary, and cynical... but I also hope I'm fair. This is a good sign here.

[Kathlen Onyx]

That's disappointing. I guess that is where everyone will be now. Won't have to look for  a flickr alternate.  

[CaithLynnSayes]

2 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

However, if it goes off into wider discussions about social media and how they might be weaponised, then it will be closed, because that's a debate that could take place anywhere.

Although i see your reasoning, i don't agree with the way it is executed. There have been a lot of interesting topics here that have been closed for some type of breach of the forum rules. On the surface that would make sense but it shuts the conversation down abruptly, and most of the time i find that a sad shame.

I know you swiftly delete my posts when i'm critical of LL. So why isn't this approach the default? Or better yet. If you (LL) feel that a thread has drifted off it's original topic, why isn't an effort made to steer it back onto the original topic? It does happen that a Mole or a Linden reminders users to stick to the topic but soon after it gets shut down anyway.

 

PS: weaponized is with a Z, not an S  

[Seicher Rae]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is, in many ways, a brand new forum. A huge amount of the content that formerly populated this board is now disallowed -- and not just the "politics." And honestly, it's still not entirely clear precisely what is allowed here. Brief off-topic jokes and mini-derails? I suspect so. Guerilla political postings that are sometimes actually intended to provoke a response that will result in suspensions? Maybe.

I agree with what you say (in most respects), but it's important to recognize that 1) some posters here aren't going to be aware of the new rules, 2) many of us are still trying to determine how best to comport ourselves under this new system, and 3) the mods themselves are still feeling their way through it.

It's going, I think, to be a complicated negotiation between all of us, as well as the mods, before all of those elements settle, and we have an established and generally well-understood approach to this place. So, I think a bit of patience is required as we all figure out this complicated dance.

Scylla, I hope you are right about the brief jokes an mini-derails being allowed. While as you know I can be deadly serious and on topic, I much prefer to do things sideways with a hefty dollop of quips and banter and momentary (and frequent) derails. A few little quips tossed back and forth between friends* isn't really a derail to my mind. But I'm not a moderator. Now, from what was said by the OP, that thread may have been derailed by some of the usual subjects (I didn't read it, don't intend to) for pages and pages. As much as I hate censorship I've also lived through enough of that BS on the forums to welcome it being gone. Too many good threads were destroyed by (one person in particular) a few years ago. It needed to stop then... if it is going on now it also should stop. But a few friendly "yo mommas"? nah. that's just good conversation.

Unfortunately, there have been examples of short, friendly banter between a few people being removed from healthy, otherwise on topic, threads. So I'm wary.

That's my problem! "Comportment" I don't even know what that word means! No wonder I am wrestling with things! I think that must be a Canadian thing.

*(or enemies for that matter, and that does happen, sometimes hilariously so, remember the dropping anvil? classic!)

[Seicher Rae]

4 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Although i see your reasoning, i don't agree with the way it is executed. 

And that ↑ is the way it is done. Straight-forward, politely disagreeing with a "power that be." Followed by a good explanation of why. Thank you.

[Rowan Amore]

25 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

The advice I have now received is that yes, nude images taken in SL (as opposed to RL nude photos, which would be OT for SL) are now allowed in the Adult Forums.   

 

Thank you for checking into that for us.   I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong)  tasteful nudes as opposed to outright pornographic images is what Governance is referring to as no one wants it turned into a Flickr alternative.

[Kathlen Onyx]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Thank you for checking into that for us.   I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong)  tasteful nudes as opposed to outright pornographic images is what Governance is referring to as no one wants it turned into a Flickr alternative.

That's the problem though right there. Everyone has their own opinion of what is "tasteful" or not.  I imagine once people start posting them we'll find out which ones get deleted and which ones stay.  For the record, I'm not opposed to the idea of nude pictures but I don't see this as going well at all. I would hope that having a picture deleted wouldn't result in a ban or anything like that.  

Edited August 6, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Quartz Mole]

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Thank you for checking into that for us.   I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong)  tasteful nudes as opposed to outright pornographic images is what Governance is referring to as no one wants it turned into a Flickr alternative.

I would assume so, too.  The authors of the new policy will be at work on Monday, and I will be sure to ask them for clarification then.

[Seicher Rae]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Thank you for checking into that for us.   I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong)  tasteful nudes as opposed to outright pornographic images is what Governance is referring to as no one wants it turned into a Flickr alternative.

I so miss being able to take SL photos! (My old but awesome desktop died and now I have a very mediocre laptop that I'm just thrilled can even get into SL.) Otherwise I'd slap on my tiny plaid bunny avatar, or maybe fire up Gato's account, and take some tasteful nudes.  Ummmm, trying to figure out how to make this an on topic quip. :::thinks:::   :::fails::: Oh! Wait! Wait! 
I'm glad you got this clarified in this thread by Quartz so that you can post your photos, which I know you're so good at! Whew! :::beams:::

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

That's the problem thought right there. Everyone has their own opinion of what is "tasteful" or not.  I imagine once people start posting them we'll find out which ones get deleted and which ones stay.  For the record, I'm not opposed to the idea of nude pictures but I don't see this as going well at all. I would hope that having a picture deleted wouldn't result in a ban or anything like that.  

This is exactly why I posed the question.  I see nothing wrong with a bare bottom or a hint of other nether regions.  They will need to define Explicit content a bit more concisely.

 

5 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

I would assume so, too.  The authors of the new policy will be at work on Monday, and I will be sure to ask them for clarification then.

Once again, thank you for taking time out of your weekend.  I'll be watching for the clarification.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I see nothing wrong with a bare bottom or a hint of other nether regions. 

Hear, hear! How do we know they are cleaning their nether regions properly, if we cannot see them? 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Seicher Rae said:

Unfortunately, there have been examples of short, friendly banter between a few people being removed from healthy, otherwise on topic, threads. So I'm wary.

It sure seems friendly! Just make sure that you..

Never mind.

The banter is friendly! 

* offers you some compote with your comportment for eating in your compartment *

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hear, hear! How do we know they are cleaning their nether regions properly, if we cannot see them? 

Why would you want to know, Love? 😦🤢

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Why would you want to know, Love? 😦🤢

Research paper?

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Research paper?

 

I want to see the ERB stamp of approval on that one.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Research paper?

 

It's Gladys Kravitz. She wants to know.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

Regarding the thread in question that was locked, I was glad it was left viewable rather than being deleted altogether. I think it gives good examples of how someone can derail a thread with examples that are actually more dog-whistles and bait than anything else. 

[Ceka Cianci]

Ya don't get suckered in, which is really easy to happen.. It might take a little ego eating, but moving passed it and just letting it go, it gets easier to do over time. There really is nothing to win or gain by engaging someone trying to draw you in.. if anything they end up winning in the end when a mod steps in.