Discrimination rules to be added to TOS?

[Love Zhaoying]

Did anyone else notice, that the OP in this thread didn't really include exactly WHAT their complaint was (what was the discrimination exactly)?

Another tell-tale sign. 

Get people to assume, and they will be triggered all on their own.

[Paul Hexem]

41 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

There are times when people need to be trolled to get them thinking. When moderating for another game the decision of whether to remove a troll-post was whether it brought up controversy on the game or a non-game subject. The game related ones were kept.

The distinction between an earnest post and a troll's-trigger-post is often indiscernible. So the moderator's decision wasn't ever really about whether the post was trolling bait but by who and what was the post subject was.

In SL posting about race is pretty much a post about an SL thing. Which gets complicated. Is a white playing as a black exploitative or educational? I think it depends on the player and I believe no two cases would be the same. There is that "personal perception" thing to make it even more complicated.

 

[Luna Bliss]

24 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Did anyone else notice, that the OP in this thread didn't really include exactly WHAT their complaint was (what was the discrimination exactly)?

Another tell-tale sign. 

Get people to assume, and they will be triggered all on their own.

Well perhaps I'm wrong, and I can be a little naive perhaps as I like to assume someone is genuine before accusing them of trolling.

Your assertion that he did not state what his complaint was is not true -- he did state a displeasure with being excluded from so many public venues.

The subsequent posters who were labeled "sock puppets", well I too suspected a couple were, but I think one was indeed a friend of the poster.

Rather than feeling manipulated by the sock puppets I take it as the new poster feeling so insecure that he felt the need for backups.

It's a shame it all went down this way, because I really value those with child avatars having spaces to exist in SL, and do wonder how restrictive it's become for them.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your assertion that he did not state what his complaint was is not true -- he did state a displeasure with being excluded from so many public venues.

But not "why". That is what I meant. Too young? Old? Underdressed? Furry?

So we made up reasons, some of us. 
 

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your assertion that he did not state what his complaint was is not true -- he did state a displeasure with being excluded from so many public venues.

But not "why". That is what I meant. Too young? Old? Underdressed? Furry?

So we made up reasons, some of us. 

Yeah, you're right. I think one of his subsequent friends or sock puppets mentioned child avatars, but it does look like the OP wanted all exclusions for public spaces to be addressed.

Found it, his friend:

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Sprout Evergarden]

On a similar vain i think much of this is related to people not being able to separate their RP from there Real life Just because someone is rejecting your Anthro / Child avi ect. does not mean they are rejecting you as  a person. People have this problem in RL if someone says something bad about something another part is "in too" ie Star wars they take it as a personal insult upon themself,

 

The saddest example of this lack of ability to separate RP from RL is currently going on in the Wild West sims they currently have a Story going on involving the Suffrage movement and People acting in character who are taking the extremely Realistic and Historically accurate stance of the time are being verbally attacked OOC and being call all sorts of "ist" and "phobia" things for playing there role.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

OOC

What's 'OOC'?

[Persephone Emerald]

The OP mentioned "racism" which doesn't really apply to fictional representations and they didn't give any examples of being excluded because of a RL race. I think this term was included in their post to try to lure people on the forum to discuss RL racism.

The OP has a name that implies they're an underaged furry, both categories of avatar representation that can rightfully be excluded from many sims. 

My impression is that they were painting inworld discrimination with a very wide brush so we would each address whichever type of discrimination bothered us the most. This could have been done without meaning to troll us, but then we took the bait and created a conflict that they never re-entered to clarify their original objection.

[Sprout Evergarden]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What's 'OOC'?

out of character  in short confusing the real person for there Rolplay Charachter

 

example if my character in a Role play insults yours  it is not me as a person attacking you as a person

Edited August 2, 2022 by Vanessa Amethyst

[Katherine Heartsong]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What's 'OOC'?

Out Of Character.

A way to indicate to a fellow RPer that what you are saying isn't part of the roleplay directly, and a comment being said by you, as opposed to your avatar.

[[often indicated with brackets or other indictaions]]

Me: /me sweetly runs my fingertips along the nape of your neck
You: smiles as you do
Me: [[oh oh! laundry going off, brb!!]]

IC is "In Character".

Edited August 2, 2022 by Katherine Heartsong

[Persephone Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What's 'OOC'?

Out Of Character vs. In Character. A person can portray whatever kind of person or personality without being that person or personality. A good example from RL would be Stephen Colbert's character on the Comedy Central show "The Colbert Report".

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Katherine Heartsong said:

 

[[often indicated with brackets or other indictaions]]

 

((brackets)) is the preferred method for SL as this bypasses all RLV restrictions.

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

The saddest example of this lack of ability to separate RP from RL is currently going on in the Wild West sims they currently have a Story going on involving the Suffrage movement and People acting in character who are taking the extremely Realistic and Historically accurate stance of the time are being verbally attacked OOC and being call all sorts of "ist" and "phobia" things for playing there role.

Apparently we have some blooming activists on the Wild West sims. The kind we don't need.

[Katherine Heartsong]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

((brackets)) is the preferred method for SL as this bypasses all RLV restrictions.

TY!!!

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What's 'OOC'?

Out Of Character.

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

currently have a Story going on involving the Suffrage movement

Let me guess, a lot of cries of, "Let 'em suffer!"

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

out of character.  in short confusing the real person for their Roleplay Character

example if my character in a Role play insults yours,  it is not me as a person attacking you as a person

I had this happen in RL, after playing Juror #10 in "Twelve Angry Jurors". Someone from the audience wondered how a bigot like me was ever allowed into the community theater. My answer didn't help.

[Katherine Heartsong]

18 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Also last time I checked there is something on the TOS about discrimination. 

Intolerance

Linden Lab encourages social interactions between users across multiple countries. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images based on race, ethnicity, gender, religion or sexual orientation is prohibited. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame users or groups are similarly prohibited.  

I'm confused.

There are dozens, no hundreds, of groups in SL that use derogatory or demeaning language in their descriptions and keywords. The only one I've never seen is anything to to with is WWII-themed Nazi-ism and Judaism, but every other racial and sexual demeaning description and slur you can imagine is out there in groups and the images used for them.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Katherine Heartsong

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I'm confused.

There are dozens, no hundreds, of groups in SL that use derogatory or meaning language in their descriptions and keywords. The only one I've never seen is anything to to with is WWII-themed Nazi-ism and Judaism, but every other racial and sexual demeaning description and slur you can imagine is out there in groups and the images used for them.

Then it sounds like those groups are low-hanging fruit for "cleanup". 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I'm confused.

There are dozens, no hundreds, of groups in SL that use derogatory or meaning language in their descriptions and keywords. The only one I've never seen is anything to to with is WWII-themed Nazi-ism and Judaism, but every other racial and sexual demeaning description and slur you can imagine is out there in groups and the images used for them.

Yep.

This is why I said that the language used in the CS and ToS about discrimination is, frankly, a bit of a joke.

On the plus side, it makes it very easy, usually, to avoid tripping over the trash.

[Lindal Kidd]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On the plus side, it makes it very easy, usually, to avoid tripping over the trash.

Very true!

The freedom given to land owners by LL to set the rules they want on their own land is undoubtedly the reason WHY Scylla's observation about the ToS is true.

And, while I side with Scylla and everyone else here who wants to see racism, injustice, and bigotry go away, I think that trying to do that by a ruling from On High is simply not going to work. I prefer LL's hands off approach to all but the most horrible offenses, combined with a personal policy of 1) being as kind and tolerant as I can and 2) avoiding the trash.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 minute ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Very true!

The freedom given to land owners by LL to set the rules they want on their own land is undoubtedly the reason WHY Scylla's observation about the ToS is true.

And, while I side with Scylla and everyone else here who wants to see racism, injustice, and bigotry go away, I think that trying to do that by a ruling from On High is simply not going to work. I prefer LL's hands off approach to all but the most horrible offenses, combined with a personal policy of 1) being as kind and tolerant as I can and 2) avoiding the trash.

We're obviously not going to make it go away in RL or SL, but I think LL has an interest in making it less obvious in SL. Sweep it under the rug if you will, but one has to do something with it when people might be coming over to visit.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Very true!

The freedom given to land owners by LL to set the rules they want on their own land is undoubtedly the reason WHY Scylla's observation about the ToS is true.

And, while I side with Scylla and everyone else here who wants to see racism, injustice, and bigotry go away, I think that trying to do that by a ruling from On High is simply not going to work. I prefer LL's hands off approach to all but the most horrible offenses, combined with a personal policy of 1) being as kind and tolerant as I can and 2) avoiding the trash.

I think I agree with almost all of this, Lindal.

The problem with "banning" stuff is that it simply drives it underground, or leads to it being disguised behind code words or in other guises that provide "plausible deniability":

"All of the half-naked nubile schoolgirls in this high school RP are over 18! Really! They are just very slow learners, and had to retake a few years . . ."

[Ceka Cianci]

deleted

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

((brackets)) is the preferred method for SL as this bypasses all RLV restrictions.

Huggy-brackets!