Seicher Rae Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 I may be one of those annoying people @skepwith referred to earlier. Or I was. Now I aspire to reach that status again? I dunno, but this stuff is confusing as all golly gee heck. What confuses me is that the official stuff says the OLD threads (that were up before July something or other) are ok... unless they violate policy. So... a cat thread is ok if there were RL cats and bunnies before, but going forward they have to be SL cats (but no SL bunnies because that would be a derail)? I'm dead serious here (for once) but have to laugh as I'm typing this absurd stuff. So the joke thread is safe, but from here on out the dad jokes have to be dad jokes about SL? How can anyone make a joke out of SL? (ok, I'll admit, I just gave y'all a straight line.) So... what you're listening to now means you have to be listening to it in SL? How do the games threads work? Are they 5-letter SL words? (We can think of some 4-letter SL words...) Only SL pet peeves going forward (that should be easy)? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 18 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: I may be one of those annoying people @skepwith referred to earlier. Or I was. Now I aspire to reach that status again? I dunno, but this stuff is confusing as all golly gee heck. What confuses me is that the official stuff says the OLD threads (that were up before July something or other) are ok... unless they violate policy. So... a cat thread is ok if there were RL cats and bunnies before, but going forward they have to be SL cats (but no SL bunnies because that would be a derail)? I'm dead serious here (for once) but have to laugh as I'm typing this absurd stuff. So the joke thread is safe, but from here on out the dad jokes have to be dad jokes about SL? How can anyone make a joke out of SL? (ok, I'll admit, I just gave y'all a straight line.) So... what you're listening to now means you have to be listening to it in SL? How do the games threads work? Are they 5-letter SL words? (We can think of some 4-letter SL words...) Only SL pet peeves going forward (that should be easy)? 12 hours ago, Istelathis said: So my understanding of it is: 1. Stay on topic of the OP, do not fray from it. 2. Make it SL related it unless posting in a grandfathered thread. Since @Quartz Mole 'thanked' the above post, I'm assuming this is correct. All NEW threads must be about SL. Older threads are fine until they go off the rails in some manner. So, RL peeves and cats SHOULD be fine just as the word game threads would be. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Since @Quartz Mole 'thanked' the above post, I'm assuming this is correct. All NEW threads must be about SL. Older threads are fine until they go off the rails in some manner. So, RL peeves and cats SHOULD be fine just as the word game threads would be. Yeah, that was my original understanding of it. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but they emphasized "unless it [the old threads] violated policy" ... right? Well if the new rules are "policy" (are they?) then how can they continue on as before? Am I being dense? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 44 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: Yeah, that was my original understanding of it. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but they emphasized "unless it [the old threads] violated policy" ... right? Well if the new rules are "policy" (are they?) then how can they continue on as before? Am I being dense? I chalk it up to the usual LL explanation that is clear as mud. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfie Reanimator Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Seicher Rae said: I may be one of those annoying people @skepwith referred to earlier. Or I was. Now I aspire to reach that status again? I dunno, but this stuff is confusing as all golly gee heck. What confuses me is that the official stuff says the OLD threads (that were up before July something or other) are ok... unless they violate policy. So... a cat thread is ok if there were RL cats and bunnies before, but going forward they have to be SL cats (but no SL bunnies because that would be a derail)? I'm dead serious here (for once) but have to laugh as I'm typing this absurd stuff. So the joke thread is safe, but from here on out the dad jokes have to be dad jokes about SL? How can anyone make a joke out of SL? (ok, I'll admit, I just gave y'all a straight line.) So... what you're listening to now means you have to be listening to it in SL? How do the games threads work? Are they 5-letter SL words? (We can think of some 4-letter SL words...) Only SL pet peeves going forward (that should be easy)? It's absurd only because you're thinking too hard about it. Edited August 3, 2022 by Wulfie Reanimator 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 What I don't understand is why no-one is moving to "the other forum in the neighbourhood". It's exactly what you want. The off-topic section is large and varied. And yet it's as quiet as a grave. If everyone who complains about THIS forum, went and posted in THAT one, THAT one would actually be worth visiting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Maitimo said: What I don't understand is why no-one is moving to "the other forum in the neighbourhood". It's exactly what you want. The off-topic section is large and varied. And yet it's as quiet as a grave. If everyone who complains about THIS forum, went and posted in THAT one, THAT one would actually be worth visiting. Not sure what the other forums are. This list has 4, and says it was updated 7/24/22. https://blog.feedspot.com/second_life_forums/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Maitimo said: What I don't understand is why no-one is moving to "the other forum in the neighbourhood". It's exactly what you want. The off-topic section is large and varied. And yet it's as quiet as a grave. If everyone who complains about THIS forum, went and posted in THAT one, THAT one would actually be worth visiting. I know I, and others in this thread, do post in the General Discussion, if that's what you mean. ? I'm only recently back after a few years (and surprise! as soon as I did, new rules!), but I rarely post anywhere else. You are right, it is pretty dull over there, which is what I think they (LL) want, and it is getting duller. There was quite a bit to hate about the place (and there's some pretty good reasons why I left), but it also did have a community feel to it. That was truer 10+ years ago, but it was still there 2 years ago. So it is a shame if that gets destroyed because of over-zealous "can't derail" type moderation. I'm only talking about the GDForum in that regards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Doesn't the General Discussion sub-forum also need to follow The Guidelines™? The description specifically says "Anything that doesn't quite fit in the other Forums welcome here -- so long as it's specific to Second Life. " Or am I misinterpreting your question, @Maitimo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said: It's absurd only because you're thinking too hard about it. Yes, there's that. There's also, as mentioned above, that the explanations given us are "clear as mud." Basically it boils down to, I'm confused about the "grandfathered" threads. If I post a RL cat photo in the "cat" thread, will I get a TOS ping? If I tell a regular "dad joke" in the "make us laugh" thread, will I get a TOS ping? I've already learned that a very short "banter" in good natured fun between community members will get posts pulled, TOS, etc. for fear of "derail." (heavy sigh) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said: Doesn't the General Discussion sub-forum also need to follow The Guidelines™? The description specifically says "Anything that doesn't quite fit in the other Forums welcome here -- so long as it's specific to Second Life. " Or am I misinterpreting your question, @Maitimo? Yes, that's the way I'm reading it too. So, since there are SL specific forums for just about everything else, there's no "need" for the GD sub-forum. Which may be their point. Which is sad, imho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Maitimo said: What I don't understand is why no-one is moving to "the other forum in the neighbourhood". It's exactly what you want. The off-topic section is large and varied. And yet it's as quiet as a grave. If everyone who complains about THIS forum, went and posted in THAT one, THAT one would actually be worth visiting. Reddit is the on-topic everywhere is off-topic king. Speaking of, We're showing decent growth over on /r/secondlife Don't have to take my word for it - https://subredditstats.com/r/secondlife Edited August 3, 2022 by Coffee Pancake 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: Yes, there's that. There's also, as mentioned above, that the explanations given us are "clear as mud." Basically it boils down to, I'm confused about the "grandfathered" threads. If I post a RL cat photo in the "cat" thread, will I get a TOS ping? If I tell a regular "dad joke" in the "make us laugh" thread, will I get a TOS ping? I've already learned that a very short "banter" in good natured fun between community members will get posts pulled, TOS, etc. for fear of "derail." (heavy sigh) If there can't be banter then there is no point having a forum at all. Everything ends up in an opportunity for someone to make a joke or fun observation that spawns responses ... and can now be weaponized to call in the popos. It's doesn't matter so much that topics are constrained to "SL relevance", it's that some stupid throw away light hearted friendly comment between friends, or a useful informative aside, could end up affecting your participation here, potentially going all the way to your SL account proper. The problem has never been that threads get derailed - This is a forum, that happens by design, this is the entire point of long form discussion. The problem is that political derailments are allowed to stand, and STILL allowed to stand, which really drags threads into the mud. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: If there can't be banter then there is no point having a forum at all. Everything ends up in an opportunity for someone to make a joke or fun observation that spawns responses ... and can now be weaponized to call in the popos. It's doesn't matter so much that topics are constrained to "SL relevance", it's that some stupid throw away light hearted friendly comment between friends, or a useful informative aside, could end up affecting your participation here, potentially going all the way to your SL account proper. The problem has never been that threads get derailed - This is a forum, that happens by design, this is the entire point of long form discussion. The problem is that political derailments are allowed to stand, and STILL allowed to stand, which really drags threads into the mud. If they ban banter, we'll all be in Banned Camp! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: If they ban banter, we'll all be in Banned Camp! reported. off topic. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said: 2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: If they ban banter, we'll all be in Banned Camp! reported. off topic. That's how Scylla's thread started ("To AR is human"), for some silly reason I took her seriously! Unless it was "To AR or not to AR". Ugh, that should be "(2AR || !2AR)", butofcourse you can't start an identifier with a numeral. Edited August 3, 2022 by Love Zhaoying Tried to write "number", misspelled, "numeral" sounded better than "digit". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: If they ban banter, we'll all be in Banned Camp! But that is exactly what they did in the Discrimination/Tos thread. There was a very quick, something like within 1 hour quick, little volley between 4 people. And many* of them got yanked for "derailing" according the the public post by the mod. I've brushed up on my "official rules" and so can't say a lot more, but I will say my very light-hearted posts were removed, as were a few others. According to the public post by the mod, the mod got slammed with "what??? why????" IMs, and the reason given was "derailing." After the little "volley" was done but BEFORE the moderation and TOS pings, the thread continued on for two more PAGES, on topic. So... there was no derail, not in a meaningful way. So, yes, they are banning banter. Banned Camp will be quite the orchestra. * Many but by no means ALL of them, and since they were all basically the same kind of posts, that also was very opaque and confusing. Edited August 3, 2022 by Seicher Rae 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Maitimo said: What I don't understand is why no-one is moving to "the other forum in the neighbourhood". It's exactly what you want. The off-topic section is large and varied. And yet it's as quiet as a grave. If everyone who complains about THIS forum, went and posted in THAT one, THAT one would actually be worth visiting. I'll try to explain as best I can. The forum has become what some have called "a home". As such, it has familiarity due to the relationships formed as well as the general structure of the forum we've come to know. Going to another place would be unfamiliar --- in a new environment the structure of the forum itself and the people would be different altogether, with various relationships already established as well as having a different format. Sure, eventually any place can feel like an internet home given enough time, but that does not mean there is not a loss we should respect and be sensitive to in people who had a home here. It's a bit like telling someone who lost a friend or a relationship to just go find another. That may be what needs to happen in the end, but we do need to acknowledge the loss they feel as well. Unfortunately sometimes what was lost can never really be replaced too, because not all people or venues are the same. Edited August 3, 2022 by Luna Bliss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Maitimo said: What I don't understand is why no-one is moving to "the other forum in the neighbourhood". It's exactly what you want. The off-topic section is large and varied. And yet it's as quiet as a grave. If everyone who complains about THIS forum, went and posted in THAT one, THAT one would actually be worth visiting. I take a look there every once in a while, it is pretty dead. I think perhaps one of the things some find appealing about this forum is the ability to interact with employees of LL, and feel they may have an impact on SL or at least be noticed. Some may also feel more comfortable with the moderation here, and know if things get out of hand an unbiased moderator (as unbiased as possible) will step in and ensure it does not go too far. The other forum, Reddit has never interested me, I don't like nested comments or the format of the site in general. It also has felt impersonal, and it is hard to get a feel for the users (at least for me) I think I just like smaller communities, where I can get a feel of the flow of the site and its inhabitants. Edited August 3, 2022 by Istelathis 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Istelathis said: The other forum, Reddit has never interested me, I don't like nested comments or the format of the site in general. It also has felt impersonal, and it is hard to get a feel for the users (at least for me) I think I just like smaller communities, where I can get a feel of the flow of the site and its inhabitants. As a moderator of said reddit community I couldn't agree more. It's not ideal, it is harder to see a familiar face in the crowd of posters .. something I think reddit themselves recognize with the constant attempts to give everyone dumb little avatars. Old reddit and new reddit are almost entirely different places. .. and there's precious little we can do make it more "forum like", Reddit follows the new social media mantra .. more more more new new new dopamine dopamine dopamine. We're doing our best. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 56 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: But that is exactly what they did in the Discrimination/Tos thread. There was a very quick, something like within 1 hour quick, little volley between 4 people. And many* of them got yanked for "derailing" according the the public post by the mod. I've brushed up on my "official rules" and so can't say a lot more, but I will say my very light-hearted posts were removed, as were a few others. According to the public post by the mod, the mod got slammed with "what??? why????" IMs, and the reason given was "derailing." After the little "volley" was done but BEFORE the moderation and TOS pings, the thread continued on for two more PAGES, on topic. So... there was no derail, not in a meaningful way. So, yes, they are banning banter. Banned Camp will be quite the orchestra. * Many but by no means ALL of them, and since they were all basically the same kind of posts, that also was very opaque and confusing. Just my opinion, but - oops, caught myself just in time! We are not supposed to discuss closed threads. Sorry! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Processing these changes more... Yes lighthearted bantering makes a forum fun. It adds spontaneity and life. Control however, if applied too much, creates deadness. I saw some bantering that contained within the exchange a short derail, where someone who has expressed feeling others were against them a lot was participating. Two people were very successfully facilitating a sense of belonging. I added a short bit too. This was, I think, very beneficial! These types of interactions are likely missed by moderators, but they are a part of all communities where people interact frequently and are connected emotionally to that community. I hate to see such bantering removed, yet I accept this might need to happen sometimes to prevent a major derail. Regarding discussing politics, I'm glad to see it go. What I'm having trouble accepting is the removal of casual references to real life. Too much control here could create a kind of dead, organized wiki for Second Life. Much easier to manage, but like with all control there can be unseen effects which could make matters worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Istelathis said: I take a look there every once in a while, it is pretty dead. I think perhaps one of the things some find appealing about this forum is the ability to interact with employees of LL, and feel they may have an impact on SL or at least be noticed. Some may also feel more comfortable with the moderation here, and know if things get out of hand an unbiased moderator (as unbiased as possible) will step in and ensure it does not go too far. I never thought of your first point but likely this would be true for many. To the second, yes, I'm actually glad the worst is usually moderated away! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said: As a moderator of said reddit community I couldn't agree more. It's not ideal, it is harder to see a familiar face in the crowd of posters .. something I think reddit themselves recognize with the constant attempts to give everyone dumb little avatars. Old reddit and new reddit are almost entirely different places. .. and there's precious little we can do make it more "forum like", Reddit follows the new social media mantra .. more more more new new new dopamine dopamine dopamine. We're doing our best. I tried it but just didn't feel connected. Not from anything you were doing wrong, of course. It's just a stream of people I don't know, is how it feels. Maybe being there longer would help? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 23 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: If it helps, y'all are making me feel better about myself. I am not immune to teh pangs. (" Next time someone says 'Ping', immediately shout 'PONG' "!) How many "pings" are allowed before we get booted? Challenge accepted 😈 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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