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User Demographics?


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18 minutes ago, Kantbe Thursday said:

Are there any reasonably current demographics SL users, particularly age distributions?

LL sure doesn't publish any such data. Not sure how accurate it would be even if they did.  Based on postings here in the forums, we already know that many people lie about their birthdate when they sign up.  I have lots of alts, for different purposes, and not all of them have my true birthdate.

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52 minutes ago, Kantbe Thursday said:

Are there any reasonably current demographics SL users, particularly age distributions?

No, but from my own experience and observations, I believe that they are mostly female, being mostly Gen X and older in age. Some of the most known and established are now either entering retirement (or sadly) exiting already and leaving their hard work behind :D They were also the biggest voices AGAINST LL expanding into newer and modern platforms, and they are most likely the toughest to converse with on the forums as well.

Aside: If I could and wanted to make products for women, I'd be killing it! That's the majority of customers here :D

Younger generations from my completely  non-statistic-based and anecdotal reporting are not interested in Second Life. They see it as an outdated (and mostly ugly) platform for old foggies, and instead spend their time on other platforms on the cutting edge.

Sorry but SL's future is either the way of the Sims type marketplace and niche to only 30-40k regulars (like Eve Online) or to continue to try again, re-tool, re-invest into newer technologies as they did Sansar to get the new generation in. The thing with these platforms is, much like the Eve Online community - will make excuses for remaining small and not growing eg "It's not the game/platform it's you and what YOU make of it!" - which is fine and valid, but the masses don't care about that (that's why they're in WoW not Eve Online with MILLIONS of others), or shunning new ideas and technologies and new players = no growth = stagnation = plateau = death. This the basic rule of any business. If it's not growing, its dying.

Yes Second Life has lots more to do and potential, but at some point you can only innovate and improve the horse and cart so much - at some point gotta start building with modern engines, car frames and rubber tires :D

Edited by Codex Alpha
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16 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

but the masses don't care about that

from my perspective as a SL user, I'm cool with it not being full of the masses, young or old. If I wanted to play a game with masses, I would, and actually I do almost daily (though not WoW.. I find it kinda old and ugly). Also, though I am a fogie now, I wasn't when I discovered SL 😉

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8 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

from my perspective as a SL user, I'm cool with it not being full of the masses, young or old. If I wanted to play a game with masses, I would, and actually I do almost daily (though not WoW.. I find it kinda old and ugly). Also, though I am a fogie now, I wasn't when I discovered SL 😉

Sure, I understand, and I've heard that a lot before. I heard it on Sansar too. The community there did a pretty good job ensuring that , that's for sure :/

Not sure how more people would affect you though.. at best you might see more people around to socialize with, more people to buy your stuff, etc I don't understand the  "I like it small" attitude as it's not like people would be forced to share space in an unlimited virtual space that has unlimited growth potential. More people means more opportunity for many things - but that seems to be LL's game. They claim they want to expand, but their ACTIONS show they want only a specific and unspecified group or something.

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50 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

They claim they want to expand, but their ACTIONS show they want only a specific and unspecified group or something.

I don't think that quite captures it.  As I said in my comments to our last conversation about this, one of the major selling points for SL is that it doesn't focus on a specific interest group. We have everything from role playing gamers to furries. A large part of the resident base enjoys owning and decorating homes.  Another large chunk creates and sells things. Many people like the club life.  Others like live events, or sailing, or skill games. Adult activity (yes, sex) is a major draw for many people, and it's totally ignored by many more. It's the diversity and the balance among these communities that is so unique to SL, so efforts to expand can't afford to focus on one part and downplay others.  The challenge that LL's marketing team has to face is not whether to expand but how to do it carefully enough to that we don't start to look like just another MMORPG or whatever.  The age demographics are an interesting part of all this, but I really don't believe they are as much of a driver as you think.

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2 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I don't think that quite captures it.  As I said in my comments to our last conversation about this, one of the major selling points for SL is that it doesn't focus on a specific interest group. We have everything from role playing gamers to furries. A large part of the resident base enjoys owning and decorating homes.  Another large chunk creates and sells things. Many people like the club life.  Others like live events, or sailing, or skill games. Adult activity (yes, sex) is a major draw for many people, and it's totally ignored by many more. It's the diversity and the balance among these communities that is so unique to SL, so efforts to expand can't afford to focus on one part and downplay others.  The challenge that LL's marketing team has to face is not whether to expand but how to do it carefully enough to that we don't start to look like just another MMORPG or whatever.  The age demographics are an interesting part of all this, but I really don't believe they are as much of a driver as you think.

Just my opinion as always, and trying to find my way and understanding why my favourite platforms under LL's leadership always seem stunted. I understand and agree with your points as well, as all factors are considered :D

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I think SL is growing I know a platform I sometimes use most people I have known over the years moved to SL before I did back in 2018. I do believe the majority of this platform are adults at least from what I have seen in my friend circle over the years. Most between 18-50 years of age. But to me its more of an adult platform than for the underage in my mind. 

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2 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Just my opinion as always, and trying to find my way

Yup, that's the game we are all playing. 😉 

If age is a factor in all of this, I think it's because those of us who have been here for 15+ years are all at least middle aged by now. We built SL the way it is today, and we influenced the way that LL shapes its infrastructure and markets SL to the world. Just as in RL, the details of this world will continue to change as the old crew passes on and new ones come in.  Dramatic shifts in marketing that might upset today's balance quickly are risky, though, because (1) they involve some hefty upfront costs and may still not attract the targeted crowd and (2) they are likely to disturb the current cash-paying base.  

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Just now, Rolig Loon said:

Yup, that's the game we are all playing. 😉 

If age is a factor in all of this, I think it's because those of us who have been here for 15+ years are all at least middle aged by now. We built SL the way it is today, and we influenced the way that LL shapes its infrastructure and markets SL to the world. Just as in RL, the details of this world will continue to change as the old crew passes on and new ones come in.  Dramatic shifts in marketing that might upset today's balance quickly are risky, though, because (1) they involve some hefty upfront costs and may still not attract the targeted crowd and (2) they are likely to disturb the current cash-paying base.  

Sigh, that's why <ahem> there was new digs to grow into, or expand to, or dabble in, to ease the transition from an aging and limited platform to a more modern one... Oh well, I tried, I will find my way to one eventually, and take what I learned and motivated to learn while here in SL (which I can always be thankful for), but I'm in the middle, stuck between old and new and trying to do my best .... :/

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31 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

This right here is the main sticking point IMO.

Yet any new venture, marketing and such losses can be written off as part of doing business.. so :D

42 minutes ago, xxVi3perxx said:

I think SL is growing I know a platform I sometimes use most people I have known over the years moved to SL before I did back in 2018. I do believe the majority of this platform are adults at least from what I have seen in my friend circle over the years. Most between 18-50 years of age. But to me its more of an adult platform than for the underage in my mind. 

We have SOME statistics. Some statistics are always better than NO statistics. From my observations over time, if SL is 'growing' we can't see it by these metrics, as it appears SL continues to hang around the 40,000 mark.

They will be definitely facing some challenges and competition as other platforms rise, and attract people to them. Hopefully SL can update enough with the platform, core, graphics and other to be able to remain relevant.

Edited by Codex Alpha
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I don't think SL was a big draw even in it's heyday. Gamers knew it wasn't a game and stayed away. Roblox and Minecraft did introduce a lot of kids to creative building as a form of gameplay though. That's something SL didn't have before.

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5 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

so efforts to expand can't afford to focus on one part and downplay others.  The challenge that LL's marketing team has to face is not whether to expand but how to do it carefully enough to that we don't start to look like just another MMORPG or whatever

It's not that complex, I think. You're right that SL has too many different traits to focus on just one.

Personally I think they need to get with the times (server hosting prices aren't remotely competitive, SL doesn't take advantage of any modern hardware) and then advertise that.

"We're still here, and we support RTX GPUs" or "We're still here, and getting your own space is cheaper than ever" will get people in the door. Most will leave because SL is terrible, but some will stay. That's all we need.

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9 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

at best you might see more people around to socialize with, more people to buy your stuff,

nah, I'm good for both actually. The community is large enough for my needs.

9 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

I don't understand the  "I like it small" attitude

oh that's easy - if we become massive like fb or other social media monstrosities, we'll be inundated with advertisers and scammers. 

btw, most developed countries have aging populations, so nothing wrong with aiming for the oldies crowd as a business plan.

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12 hours ago, Kantbe Thursday said:

Are there any reasonably current demographics SL users, particularly age distributions?

So this innocent question turned into YAET (yet another existential thread) by the second comment, which is fine as it shows what is on people's mind. To me, SL is in its golden age and I will keep riding this ride as long as it is there. SL's demise is like earthquakes in California... you KNOW it's coming, just not when. The best we can hope for is that the knowledge and wisdom that it fostered, much of which appears in this forum, is not lost. There will be another virtual world where “there is no manufactured conflict, no set objective” and hopefully we will make our way there.

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6 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I don't think SL was a big draw even in it's heyday. Gamers knew it wasn't a game and stayed away. Roblox and Minecraft did introduce a lot of kids to creative building as a form of gameplay though. That's something SL didn't have before.

If SL isn't a game then Garry's Mod isn't either as far as I'm concerned.

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I think we will be able to see from more posting on this subject about the attitudes involved and one will be able to glean the demographic from this metric.

Although not always, older age usually comes with more rigidity, resistance to change, and a need for 'small, peaceful, safe' settings, while a younger demographic is more apt to explore new things and engage in new experiences.

Not one person is worried about SL turning into an MMORPG. SL is everything that anyone could want - how much more inclusive could it be. What it suffers from is a demographic resistant to change - maybe this comes right from LL itself who always appears to be in conflict of its goals of wanting to be a profitable company - but then in action and practice being very exclusionary or "We don't want that crowd" which works against it.

I believe it will start and end base on SL's current technology and whether people can come and pleasantly 'play' it without lag, with an intuitive interface and movement scheme, and a new UI to accommodate them. There's always a contingent of players who want a platform to 'remain small' because that's how they like it - especially if they're currently a big fish in a small pond - but those attitudes in general are not good for growth, nor the assumed profit aims of a company.

Edited by Codex Alpha
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The population of SL is not resistant to change. Just find any thread where we go on and on about changes needed. I have made so many great suggestions in the past. These include larger avatars for premium, better building tools and the Nexus

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3 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Although not always, older age usually comes with more rigidity, resistance to change, and a need for 'small, peaceful, safe' settings, while a younger demographic is more apt to explore new things and engage in new experiences.

This is a common assumption, but is it actually true in this case? there is a lot of variance within age cohorts, and SL draws a rather unique crowd. None of the people I have met inworld are shy to try new things or experiences. In fact they are more like a bunch of mad scientists.. young and old alike.

3 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

but those attitudes in general are not good for growth, nor the assumed profit aims of a company.

our attitudes don't mean anything as far as profitability goes. No one is holding back change by liking (and spending money on) the product as it is.

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16 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

It's not that complex, I think. You're right that SL has too many different traits to focus on just one.

Personally I think they need to get with the times (server hosting prices aren't remotely competitive, SL doesn't take advantage of any modern hardware) and then advertise that.

"We're still here, and we support RTX GPUs" or "We're still here, and getting your own space is cheaper than ever" will get people in the door. Most will leave because SL is terrible, but some will stay. That's all we need.

The only thing LL is really trying at the moment is maximizing profits with the same old junk.
I don't consider that a good sign. Especially since SL is still their one time wonder.
The only real egg in the basket, since Tilia seems not to be going anywhere spectacular either IMHO.

Edited by Sid Nagy
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29 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

The only thing LL is really trying at the moment is maximizing profits with the same old junk.
I don't consider that a good sign.

 

Seems so. Premium Plus may be the latest financial engineering effort to this end. Premium members who currently pay no tier may be lured into Plus to get 1024 of  additional included tier. Of course they are paying for that extra 1024, thankfully at a low rate. Anyone currently paying tier will see (and pay for) 1024 more headroom. This is not always bad of course and many will appreciate it. Linden Lab likely expects to see an increase in revenue.

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