Recognizing and refraining from Interpersonal Disputes

[Persephone Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

When people post things like this I'm not sure what point they are trying to make. Call me naive or that things just go over my head but some context would be helpful. Are saying that yes, we do shun people or are you just making a joke? I'm honestly not sure.

I was not making any point. I just thought it was funny, absurd and silly.

If one wants to make a point out of it, Charlie went along with the other unicorns because he gave into peer pressure, but it turned out he was right all along and got his kidney stolen because he did what they told him to do.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Can we agree that "deserved" is a vague and subjective term? 

I'd rather discuss what is or is not considered socially acceptable by the group, what is or is not within the rules, and what is or is not legal. 

I think "whoever" brought up "deserved" was in danger of derailing the thread. So, you're better off just dropping it. Unfortunately, we can't shun them. *is joke!*

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Assuming your pants didn't burst into flame, you should be fine.

Yes, I'm perfectly fine and my pants are intact.  😁

[Luna Bliss]

All this talk about lying caused an oldies song (Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire) to float into my mind, and this woman dancing in front of the band is a hoot:

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Kathlen Onyx]

13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Unless of course it is "deserved".

This sentence right here says it all and that is why people can't refrain from personal disputes on the forum.

[Kathlen Onyx]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think "whoever" brought up "deserved" was in danger of derailing the thread. So, you're better off just dropping it. Unfortunately, we can't shun them. *is joke!*

OH, but you can "shun" them by using the block feature. But it has been said over and over hardly anyone uses it for whatever justified reason they have.  My personal opinion why? Because that would be no fun, though no one will admit that.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Unless of course it is "deserved".

This sentence right here says it all and that is why people can't refrain from personal disputes on the forum.

Context from the original use of this is missing. The ire is deserving when they have been behaving badly YET claiming they have not been, instead insisting they are a victim.

[Silent Mistwalker]

18 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Can we agree that "deserved" is a vague and subjective term? 

I'd rather discuss what is or is not considered socially acceptable by the group, what is or is not within the rules, and what is or is not legal. 

 

What group? I'm not a part of any group on the forum. I've always stood alone.

Are you defining group as all forum members or just those that participate in GD? 

What happens to those of us who have never been considered socially acceptable by any group?

Not looking for answers per se, I'm making a point. 

[Persephone Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

What group? I'm not a part of any group on the forum. I've always stood alone.

Are you defining group as all forum members or just those that participate in GD? 

What happens to those of us who have never been considered socially acceptable by any group?

Not looking for answers per se, I'm making a point. 

The group in this case is everyone who posts on the forums, especially including the moderators. We might not like to consider ourselves part of a group, but socially we're part of whatever larger groups we interact with. Group dynamics determine appropriate social behavior and the consequences for breaking social expectations .

Edited April 24, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Persephone Emerald]

18 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

OH, but you can "shun" them by using the block feature. But it has been said over and over hardly anyone uses it for whatever justified reason they have.  My personal opinion why? Because that would be no fun, though no one will admit that.

I will admit it. I do not use the block feature because that would be no fun. A forum is fun for me because I enjoy the exchange of ideas and the interplay between people. If I were just going to block everyone I disagree with, I might as well not even use internet forums. I might as well just post cute cat videos and uplifting memes on Facebook.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

OH, but you can "shun" them by using the block feature.

Nah, I unblocked you and the others awhile back.

 

[Rolig Loon]

I have a hard time understanding why some people seem to actually enjoy conversations that involve tossing insults and put-down comments back and forth.  I am not talking even in vague terms about anyone here in the forums; just thinking in general about people who treat conversation as a recreational battlefield.  I have the same reaction to standup comedians who look forward to trading zingers with hecklers in the audience. Some people react by tossing the hand grenade back, either because they truly enjoy the game or because somebody has stepped over a red line while lobbing it.  In either case, it seems to me like a recipe for disaster, and definitely not much fun.  My own reaction is to turn around and wander away. 

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I have a hard time understanding why some people seem to actually enjoy conversations that involve tossing insults and put-down comments back and forth.  I am not talking even in vague terms about anyone here in the forums; just thinking in general about people who treat conversation as a recreational battlefield.  I have the same reaction to standup comedians who look forward to trading zingers with hecklers in the audience. Some people react by tossing the hand grenade back, either because they truly enjoy the game or because somebody has stepped over a red line while lobbing it.  In either case, it seems to me like a recipe for disaster, and definitely not much fun.  My own reaction is to turn around and wander away. 

You need to send them this gif, Rolig:

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I have a hard time understanding why some people seem to actually enjoy conversations that involve tossing insults and put-down comments back and forth.  I am not talking even in vague terms about anyone here in the forums; just thinking in general about people who treat conversation as a recreational battlefield.  I have the same reaction to standup comedians who look forward to trading zingers with hecklers in the audience. Some people react by tossing the hand grenade back, either because they truly enjoy the game or because somebody has stepped over a red line while lobbing it.  In either case, it seems to me like a recipe for disaster, and definitely not much fun.  My own reaction is to turn around and wander away. 

I had a reaction to someone using the word "stupid" earlier in a post,  but could not articulate my thoughts. You nailed it.

[Rolig Loon]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

You nailed it.

Thank you. I have wondered whether my own reaction is because of a cultural gap between me and the argumentative crowd or whether I am fundamentally naive. (Or, maybe, choosing a chicken as my Muppet avatar last week was more telling than I thought.)  The fact remains that although I can engage with people saying disagreeable things -- and with disagreeable people too -- I really don't enjoy it as some other people do.  The scary thing in these polarized times is that I no longer know whether I am "normal" or an oddball in the crowd.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The group in this case is everyone who posts on the forums, especially including the moderators. We might not like to consider ourselves part of a group, but socially we're part of whatever larger groups we interact with. Group dynamics determine appropriate social behavior and the consequences for breaking social expectations .

That doesn't answer my question about those who are not part of any socially acceptable (your words) group. We're treated as if we do not exist. 

Social expectations? Socially I was expected to grow up, get married and have kids just like everyone else. That never happened. I don't think you really want to know just what the consequences of that are, let alone the other social expectations I refused to meet because they were either wrong for me or just wrong.

Expecting people to conform to social expectations that are completely wrong for the different groups (First Nations*) within the main group (US*) is a pretty narrow way of looking at things.

 

*for example

Edited April 24, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Silent Mistwalker]

27 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I have a hard time understanding why some people seem to actually enjoy conversations that involve tossing insults and put-down comments back and forth.  I am not talking even in vague terms about anyone here in the forums; just thinking in general about people who treat conversation as a recreational battlefield.  I have the same reaction to standup comedians who look forward to trading zingers with hecklers in the audience. Some people react by tossing the hand grenade back, either because they truly enjoy the game or because somebody has stepped over a red line while lobbing it.  In either case, it seems to me like a recipe for disaster, and definitely not much fun.  My own reaction is to turn around and wander away. 

Mine, too.

[Persephone Emerald]

20 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I have a hard time understanding why some people seem to actually enjoy conversations that involve tossing insults and put-down comments back and forth.  I am not talking even in vague terms about anyone here in the forums; just thinking in general about people who treat conversation as a recreational battlefield.  I have the same reaction to standup comedians who look forward to trading zingers with hecklers in the audience. Some people react by tossing the hand grenade back, either because they truly enjoy the game or because somebody has stepped over a red line while lobbing it.  In either case, it seems to me like a recipe for disaster, and definitely not much fun.  My own reaction is to turn around and wander away. 

For me it's part of enjoying language as an art form. A roast is one example of language being used to insult someone in a playfully comedic way. Yo' Mamma jokes are another. Satire is similar, but uses humor to expose hypocrisy or other faults in society and individuals.  The way language can be used to evoke so many diverse associations, feelings and thoughts is really wonderful to me. Good writing is like being able to create gourmet meals with ideas instead of with food and spices.  A good short come-back is like yummy fast-food when you were really craving it.

[Rolig Loon]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

For me it's part of enjoying language as an art form. A roast is one example of language being used to insult someone in a playfully comedic way. Yo' Mamma jokes are another. Satire is similar, but uses humor to expose hypocrisy or other faults in society and individuals.  The way language can be used to evoke so many diverse associations, feelings and thoughts is really wonderful to me. Good writing is like being able to create gourmet meals with ideas instead of with food and spices.  A good short come-back is like yummy fast-food when you were really craving it.

Yes, I can certainly appreciate that aspect of it. I play with words all the time.  I enjoy double entendres and puns that can twist a phrase to reveal an unexpected -- and totally unintended -- meaning in a conversational phrase. Language is a delightful playground. Good satire and irony are fun tools for making light of absurdity.  I relish your gourmet metaphor. For me, though, the fun stops when words take on a biting edge. I do not enjoy a roast or a Yo Mama joke.  They make me squirm uncomfortably. The wit in them is spoiled by the delivery.  I feel a sting even when I know they are all in jest and I imagine others who, like me, would rather be somewhere else.

[Persephone Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

That doesn't answer my question about those who are not part of any socially acceptable (your words) group. We're treated as if we do not exist. 

Social expectations? Socially I was expected to grow up, get married and have kids just like everyone else. That never happened. I don't think you really want to know just what the consequences of that are, let alone the other social expectations I refused to meet because they were either wrong for me or just wrong.

Expecting people to conform to social expectations that are completely wrong for the different groups (First Nations*) within the main group (US*) is a pretty narrow way of look at things.

 

*for example

I'm not describing whether a group is socially acceptable or not. I'm talking about group dynamics and how society functions on a larger scale.

I would bet most of us feel socially unaccepted sometimes. One way that people deal with this feeling is to find sub-groups or sub-cultures in which they feel more accepted. Another way might be to focus on one's skills and positive traits that are more valued by society. Another way might be to take a philosophical approach in which the perceptions of other people are not given much weight. 

I'm not saying people have to conform to social expectations. I'm saying that people in groups impose social expectations, both by showing support for behavior the group (on average) believes is good and showing disapproval for behavior the group (on average) believes is bad. These group-defined definitions of "good" and "bad" behavior will usually change over time, often because some part of the group believes they need to change and speaks out for change. Of course the first people to speak out for change take some damage when they stand up against the social norms of the larger group, but if people don't risk this damage, there is no force on the larger group to change its status quo.

"Society" doesn't just mean the larger society btw. It's doesn't just mean the US culture for example. It can refer to a small town, a tribe, a school, a social group, or an internet forum.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Luna Bliss]

28 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

A roast is one example of language being used to insult someone in a playfully comedic way.

Roasts are actually affirming that everyone has faults, aren't they?  I loved a roast I saw where Obama was the focus -- that yearly dinner in DC. It was fun to see Obama smile and take it all in stride, maybe a tinge of embarrassment here and there but he was a good sport. And the anticipation...the suspense...hoping the comedian doesn't go over the line...wherever that line might be as it is often different for different people.

[Persephone Emerald]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Roasts are actually affirming that everyone has faults, aren't they?  I loved a roast I saw where Obama was the focus -- that yearly dinner in DC. It was fun to see Obama smile and take it all in stride, maybe a tinge of embarrassment here and there but he was a good sport. And the anticipation...the suspense...hoping the comedian doesn't go over the line...wherever that line might be as it is often different for different people.

Yup. The satirist or comedian takes a risk by poking at people who might be able to have him "canceled" or jailed or might even walk up on stage and punch him in the face. 

[Kathlen Onyx]

[Love Zhaoying]

This lyric from the last part of the song "Cygnet Committee" comes to mind, vis-à-vi the "good vs. bad" discussion:

And I close my eyes and tighten up my brain
For I once read a book in which the lovers were slain
For they knew not the words of the Free States' refrain
It said:
"I believe in the power of good
I believe in the state of love
I will fight for the right to be right
I will kill for the good of the fight for the right to be right"

And I open my eyes to look around
And I see a child laid slain
On the ground
As a love machine lumbers through desolation rows
Plowing down man, woman, listening to its command
But not hearing anymore
Not hearing anymore
Just the shrieks from the old rich

 

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'Now'
And I want to believe
That a light's shining through
Somehow

 

And I want to believe
And you want to believe
And we want to believe
And we want to live
Oh, we want to live

 

We want to live
We want to live
We want to live
We want to live
We want to live

 

I want to live
I want to live
I want to live

I want to live
I want to live
I want to live

 

Live
Live
Live

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

Thank you. I have wondered whether my own reaction is because of a cultural gap between me and the argumentative crowd or whether I am fundamentally naive. (Or, maybe, choosing a chicken as my Muppet avatar last week was more telling than I thought.)  The fact remains that although I can engage with people saying disagreeable things -- and with disagreeable people too -- I really don't enjoy it as some other people do.  The scary thing in these polarized times is that I no longer know whether I am "normal" or an oddball in the crowd.

I grew up in a family that loved rapid, seemingly pr*ckly banter. Once, after watching (hearing, really, his cussing was glorious) Dad really screw something up during construction of one of his many prototype gizmos, I said "Do clients really pay you to do dumb stuff like that?" His immediate and enthusiastic response was "Oh yes!' Only your mother gets it for free."

And there's that time Mom went to McDonalds...

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters
I’d love to kick that naughty word filter’s ass.