Recognizing and refraining from Interpersonal Disputes

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, you do not have to continue attempting to assist them. If you have never worked in a call center, you shouldn't argue about how they work with someone who has worked at them.

 

While I haven't worked in a call center I've had plenty of experience of providing "after sales support" to clients and customers, and was talking in general about being required to provide support to people in a professional manner.

I don't know how many others on this forum have worked in call centers but I'm sure there are some who have been providing excellent customer support in SL for years without ever setting foot inside a call center, and personally I think their opinions on the subject of customer support are just as valid as anyones regardless of their RL career choices.

[Theresa Tennyson]

37 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

Never make customer/tech support personal. It's bad business.

One thing I that I think can happen, especially in technical discussions but not exclusively, is taking comments about things you own/are associated with personally. It can go both ways - saying there's an issue with a customer's hardware or a representative's product isn't a reflection on the customer or the representative. There can be a strong impulse to try to assign fault or blame and to make moral judgements in a situation that is just an unpredictable combination of neutral causes.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There is a difference too between what's expected by members of a forum vs what's expected by an actual customer service representative.

I *think* Theresa was imagining a forum situation

The "hypothetical" scenario is actually SOP for the "hypothetical" poster.  We've ALL seen it.  They don't actually want help, it seems.  Almost every single response is shot down for one reason or another until people just throw up their hands in exasperation.

lol

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

One thing I that I think can happen, especially in technical discussions but not exclusively, is taking comments about things you own/are associated with personally. It can go both ways - saying there's an issue with a customer's hardware or a representative's product isn't a reflection on the customer or the representative. There can be a strong impulse to try to assign fault or blame and to make moral judgements in a situation that is just an unpredictable combination of neutral causes.

As commonly seen in the indignant "But my rig can play all the latest AAA games at 463672 fps, if SL is performing badly it's not my hardware!" posts.

[Rolig Loon]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where did the roasts take an ugly turn? Since Obama's time Trump wouldn't even attend these White House Correspondents' Dinners though he complained about them

Rather than risk making any sort of political statement myself, I will simply point out that the commentary at the 2011 dinner was certainly taken as personal and harmful by Donald Trump, who then went on to become President and boycotted the dinners during his own term in office. Regardless of what you may think of Trump, he took that 2011 roast not as humor but as an ugly incident. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

17 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

While I haven't worked in a call center I've had plenty of experience of providing "after sales support" to clients and customers, and was talking in general about being required to provide support to people in a professional manner.

I don't know how many others on this forum have worked in call centers but I'm sure there are some who have been providing excellent customer support in SL for years without ever setting foot inside a call center, and personally I think their opinions on the subject of customer support are just as valid as anyones regardless of their RL career choices.

Ah, that makes sense.

I've worked several call centers for some big names. Providing inworld support isn't any different than providing support via text (no, not your phone) or email like a lot of customer/tech support services offer. Sometimes those popups in the bottom right hand corner of my screen can be annoying. 😉

Edited April 25, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

One thing I that I think can happen, especially in technical discussions but not exclusively, is taking comments about things you own/are associated with personally. It can go both ways - saying there's an issue with a customer's hardware or a representative's product isn't a reflection on the customer or the representative. There can be a strong impulse to try to assign fault or blame and to make moral judgements in a situation that is just an unpredictable combination of neutral causes.

That's why, when I am the customer, I always try to remember to preface with, "This is not on you, personally" or "Please don't take this personally as it's not meant to be personal" etc. depending on the situation. It can be extremely stressful for both sides.

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where did the roasts take an ugly turn? Since Obama's time Trump wouldn't even attend these White House Correspondents' Dinners though he complained about them

Rather than risk making any sort of political statement myself, I will simply point out that the commentary at the 2011 dinner was certainly taken as personal and harmful by Donald Trump, who then went on to become President and boycotted the dinners during his own term in office. Regardless of what you may think of Trump, he took that 2011 roast not as humor but as an ugly incident. 

He did, but he has always taken any criticism of him as an ugly incident, instead of examining the situation and entertaining the idea that he might have done something wrong.

People like this, of this persuasion, simply cannot compromise with others, and they're impossible to work with. You can never point out they might be anything but perfect.

Look at this thread....for some even to suggest that anger might be justified because someone did something wrong here causes them to flip out and even label 'anger' itself as bad.

Really, we all need to accept that nobody is perfect, that we have faults. No interpersonal dispute can be resolved without this acceptance.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

Ah, that makes sense.

I've worked several call centers for some big names. Providing inworld support isn't any different than providing support via text (no, not your phone) like a lot of customer/tech support services offer. Sometimes those popups in the bottom right hand corner of my screen can be annoying. 😉

Yeah sorry I should have made it more clear I was speaking generally.

My own experience with customer support is more along the lines of providing continuing support for specific clients after the completion of a project, so I don't have to deal with the sheer volume of people that a call center has to process.  Obviously when you have so many customers to deal with then weeding out the ones that are just being problematic becomes a matter of time-management and cost-effectiveness so the rules are probably quite different.

 

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

He did, but he has always taken any criticism of him as an ugly incident, instead of examining the situation and entertaining the idea that he might have done something wrong.

People like this, of this persuasion, simply cannot compromise with others, and they're impossible to work with. You can never point out they might be anything but perfect.

Look at this thread....for some even to suggest that anger might be justified because someone did something wrong here causes them to flip out and even label 'anger' itself as bad.

Really, we all need to accept that nobody is perfect, that we have faults. No interpersonal dispute can be resolved without this acceptance.

I'm sure that you could sense me biting my tongue and trying not to make a political statement. Yes, I agree with you that the perception of hurt was largely one-sided. As you point out, it's not hard to find people who play the role of victim, overreacting to things that the rest of us might shrug off.  Nevertheless, my own personal reaction to roasts and the sort of humor that is designed to needle someone else is to feel uncomfortable, knowing that at some level the humor is a personal criticism.  It reminds me too much of watching my own kids quietly taunt each other, each hoping to provoke a backlash that would get the other one in trouble.  Indeed, we all have faults. We should recognize, though, that pointing them out publicly is risky business.  Not everyone enjoys being the butt of a joke.

[Silent Mistwalker]

26 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Yeah sorry I should have made it more clear I was speaking generally.

My own experience with customer support is more along the lines of providing continuing support for specific clients after the completion of a project, so I don't have to deal with the sheer volume of people that a call center has to process.  Obviously when you have so many customers to deal with then weeding out the ones that are just being problematic becomes a matter of time-management and cost-effectiveness so the rules are probably quite different.

 

Thanks for making it clearer!

It all depends on the contract between the call center and the client. I've worked customer and tech support for a couple of cellular providers, creative software, bookkeeping software and each one had their own ideas (rightly or wrongly) and policies of how calls should be handled. Most of it is standardized operating procedure (SOP) across the customer/tech support fields.

The root of most escalated calls is AHT. Average Handle Time. The rep has to keep the calls within a certain amount of time so they are under a lot of pressure to get off the phone and move on to the next call. Pushing AHT like all call centers do, is detrimental to getting the customer the help they need because the rep isn't focused on the customer, they're focused on the clock.

Customer service is a landmine waiting for some poor sod to step on it and blow up in your face. But it is up to the rep to remain in control of the call. That is the secret to it. Whoever is providing the support must remain in control of the call. That doesn't mean bullying the customer.

https://www.mojohelpdesk.com/blog/2012/03/how-to-take-control-of-a-customer-service-call/

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

9 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I'm sure that you could sense me biting my tongue and trying not to make a political statement. Yes, I agree with you that the perception of hurt was largely one-sided. As you point out, it's not hard to find people who play the role of victim, overreacting to things that the rest of us might shrug off.  Nevertheless, my own personal reaction to roasts and the sort of humor that is designed to needle someone else is to feel uncomfortable, knowing that at some level the humor is a personal criticism.  It reminds me too much of watching my own kids quietly taunt each other, each hoping to provoke a backlash that would get the other one in trouble.  Indeed, we all have faults. We should recognize, though, that pointing them out publicly is risky business.  Not everyone enjoys being the butt of a joke.

I can't help but feel some sympathy for celebrities (and others who live their lives under public scrutiny) that develop NPD, if you live your life surrounded by cameras and being watched by millions I imagine it's hard not to end up feeling like "it's all about you!".

I also think that sometimes people forget that they're on a public forums and will treat threads as a conversation between friends, which is nice in a way since it makes the forums feel inviting and hospitable, however those conversations can sometimes be open to misinterpretation.

For example, Poster A and Poster B are engaged in friendly banter and are "roasting" each other, everything is funny and all involved can see the humour until one day Poster C happens to read the thread and sees the comments making light hearted-fun of a persons shortcomings but instead of seeing it in the context of humour they view it from the perspective of someone who has endured years of ridicule from others about what they perceive not as a shortcoming but a disability.

Now I'm not saying that humour has no place on a forum, and would hate to see that friendly banter disappear, but at the same time given the public nature of the forum and how poorly humour can sometimes be conveyed via text, the potential for misunderstanding is pretty high so derogatory remarks, even those made in jest, can be a recipe for disaster.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I can't help but feel some sympathy for celebrities (and others who live their lives under public scrutiny) that develop NPD, if you live your life surrounded by cameras and being watched by millions I imagine it's hard not to end up feeling like "it's all about you!".

I have angered others by saying I felt sympathy for Donald Trump, as I've studied Psychology and understand the pain of his disorder (NPD).

But when I think of all the people he hurt, and all the damage he did to the country, my sympathy begins to fade.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The rep has to keep the calls within a certain amount of time so they are under a lot of pressure to get off the phone and move on to the next call.

Oh lord, I wouldn't last a day then.  As some people have probably noticed from how long my posts are I have a tendency to ramble.  Combine that with my rabid curiosity about almost everything and fascination with people in general and the length of an average phone call for me is at least an hour. 😅

[Silent Mistwalker]

Sometimes it's more fun to play the fool than to remain silent and leave everyone wondering.

Wait.

Wut?

🤭

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Oh lord, I wouldn't last a day then.  As some people have probably noticed from how long my posts are I have a tendency to ramble.  Combine that with my rabid curiosity about almost everything and fascination with people in general and the length of an average phone call for me is at least an hour. 😅

Doesn't your ear sweat after that long? Mine does. 🤣

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well I hadn't really analyzed this much, but you're pointing to the most important idea to keep in mind when analyzing this kind of 'roast' -- they are poking fun at someone who has an immense amount of power (the president) compared to the comedian doing the 'roasting'. It evens the score for just a bit by the comedian who has a minimal amount of power bringing to light the faults of someone with great power. This seems like a good thing to me (roasting someone who has that much power) vs if they'd be making fun of those with much less power in our society (for example, minorities or disabled people). That would be in very poor taste and I wouldn't find it funny at all. Nor would I find it funny if they went over the line and joked about, say, the wife of a president with cancer, or his child. 

Plus, these roasts bring to light the truth (just watching a clip where they were roasting Trump and joking about why he is awake and tweeting at 3am, joking that its because those are Russian business hours). He was, after all, far too cozy with Russia for various reasons.

It's an important point to remember in humor that it's socially ok to make fun of people who have more power than you do, but not of people who have less power than you do.  On the other hand, in some circumstances it can also be dangerous to make fun of people who have more power than you do, for instance making fun of one's boss or of a political dictator. There's a sweet spot a comedian has to find where they're saying something others would like to be able to say, but not beating up on those who are already down-trodden or risking their own safety by picking a fight with the big, mean bear.

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, you do not have to continue attempting to assist them. If you have never worked in a call center, you shouldn't argue about how they work with someone who has worked at them.

 

Do you know that Fluffy (or people among her friends and family) have never worked at a call center? Also, the work environment of call centers can vary. Some are pretty strict toward and even abusive of their employees.

p.s.

Ooops. I should have read the rest of the thread before responding. Looks like you guys worked out the misunderstanding already. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Persephone Emerald
to add p.s.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where did the roasts take an ugly turn? Since Obama's time Trump wouldn't even attend these White House Correspondents' Dinners though he complained about them, and Covid eliminated the last two dinners.

We don't have to take this thread into dangerous political waters. The focus should be on interpersonal disputes, not on political ones. People are naturally going to take up an "us vs. them" mentality if we start mentioning specific political parties or persons.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Intention was and is to draw attention to the idea that interpersonal disputes are the predominant reason for the closing of many threads. Not only the reason for the closing but not even being able to start discussions for many topics because of the likelihood they will result in flame wars. This for a Forum mostly populated by an older, more mature crowd, many of whom are above average educated and professionals in their respective fields. To me, every closed thread is a fail in our collective ability to hold rational discussions about whatever the current issues might be.

I had no idea on what to expect but overall I think it has gone well with a number of posters making some good points about potential pitfalls and techniques for avoiding personal disputes in future.

Thank you, Arielle for starting this thread. I also think it's been generally civil and productive.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Do you know that Fluffy (or people among her friends and family) have never worked at a call center? Also, the work environment of call centers can vary. Some are pretty strict toward and even abusive of their employees.

I'll let you finish reading the thread. 😊

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

I'm sure that you could sense me biting my tongue and trying not to make a political statement. Yes, I agree with you that the perception of hurt was largely one-sided. As you point out, it's not hard to find people who play the role of victim, overreacting to things that the rest of us might shrug off.  Nevertheless, my own personal reaction to roasts and the sort of humor that is designed to needle someone else is to feel uncomfortable, knowing that at some level the humor is a personal criticism.  It reminds me too much of watching my own kids quietly taunt each other, each hoping to provoke a backlash that would get the other one in trouble.  Indeed, we all have faults. We should recognize, though, that pointing them out publicly is risky business.  Not everyone enjoys being the butt of a joke.

So many interesting things to consider...

I don't like to see kids fight and hurt each other either, and can understand how current experiences can remind one of similar type experiences from the past.

But for me the fighting of children who have equal power doesn't translate to what I feel when we roast a powerful person. As long as the comedian doesn't go too far, that is. Someone in office has, in some ways, become more than an individual -- they have become a symbol --  they have chosen to become a representative of more than their individual self. 

Those seeking power in society, these officials, need to understand the feelings of those they govern over, and be able to accept some ribbing from those they have power over, because it's very uncomfortable for one person to have power over another due to those with less power being more vulnerable to being hurt.

 So these roasts, and even cartoons and parodies, are a way to hold them accountable and a way for us to equalize the power difference for a moment in time, even in jest. The absolute worst type of society would be one where we were not allowed to do so.
*shudders when thinking about the upcoming elections and where we're headed*

[Solar Legion]

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Thank you, Arielle for starting this thread. I also think it's been generally civil and productive.

It's been falsely civil and only "productive" on a superficial level (where many things are concerned) because we are not really allowed to talk about the corporate elephant in the room.

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where did the roasts take an ugly turn? Since Obama's time Trump wouldn't even attend these White House Correspondents' Dinners though he complained about them, and Covid eliminated the last two dinners.

We don't have to take this thread into dangerous political waters. The focus should be on interpersonal disputes, not on political ones. People are naturally going to take up an "us vs. them" mentality if we start mentioning specific political parties or persons.

Rolig started it!!!!!    LOL

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

37 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Doesn't your ear sweat after that long? Mine does. 🤣

No, but wearing certain headsets for more than an hour or two tends to make my head feel like it's been trapped in a vice sometimes. 😅