We invite you to share your perspective and help us improve the Second Life experience!

[Nick0678]

They simply copy/pasted that silly list from Verywell Mind "inc" (Our mission is to help you prioritize your mental health and find balance.) and that's it.

[Tama Suki]

6 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

They simply copy/pasted that silly list from Verywell Mind "inc" (Our mission is to help you prioritize your mental health and find balance.) and that's it.

I don't quite understand what kind of relationship this company has with Linden Lab, but after this bewildering episode I would personally terminate any contracts if there was one.

[Prokofy Neva]

55 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

Both Hispanic and European are political/geographical designations and have very little to do with culture or ethnicity.  I think you mean well, but you cant just belive that there are so many separate cultures within the US borders, that require so many tags, and then just blurt out "hispanic", wich means spanish speaking.... like people from Spain, in Europe. Not to mention how different the ethnic makeup and cultural background of different latin american countries is.   The same thing happens when people say "asia" or "asian countries", anyone who has worked with chinese and japanese people can tell you that they are NOT culturally similar, start moving west and the differences are even greater.

We can say that the survey is US centered, very specific in the demographic it targets and completely myopic to anything outside their scope. There is no need to defend the survey by twisting definitions so much that they become meaningless.

Well, you're wrong about that. I didn't just "blurt out" Hispanic in some mistaken mischaracterization -- that's only your belief and perception.In fact, I quoted it from these standard surveys because that's the term they use. Yes, it means "Spanish-speaking" as everyone knows. That's the best way here to create a category for everyone who is from the many diverse countries of Latin America, and sure, it captures people from Spain as well.

Here is the form of instructions to physicians in NYC for the COVID vaccine:

https://hca-nys.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/doh-covid-vaccine-form-instructions.pdf

Here's the COVID vaccine patient form for New York State:

https://forms.ny.gov/s3/vaccine

 

Surveys typically cannot get as granulated as you like, to supply the options for "Italian" or "Irish" for "white" or "Japanese" or "Chinese" for Asian. They use broad categories which are good enough for demographic purposes based on past findings. The US is a very large and diverse country and no one here finds these sorts of very standard surveys "myopic". I'm not aware of any group or movement fighting for the way hospital forms and every other form and survey depicts these categories. The battle now is more about gender and sexuality; currently the form to get the COVID vaccine in my hospital has 18 boxes.

I'm sorry, but regardless of whether this offends you and others in this thread, this is the reality in America. It is generally not perceived as racist or offensive. There are other arenas for those battles. In your country, if it is a democratic one, you can do it differently and add all the granulation and sensitivity you need. This is how it is done here, like it or not, and the main focus is delivering as many vaccines as possible to the population, and to overcome disparity in health care provision among populations.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Tama Suki]

12 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, you're wrong about that. I didn't just "blurt out" Hispanic in some mistaken mischaracterization -- that's only your belief and perception. In fact, I quoted it from these standard surveys because that's the term they use. Yes, it means "Spanish-speaking" as everyone knows.

Here is the form of instructions to physicians in NYC for the COVID vaccine:

https://hca-nys.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/doh-covid-vaccine-form-instructions.pdf

Here's the COVID vaccine patient form for New York State:

https://forms.ny.gov/s3/vaccine

 

Surveys typically cannot get as granulated as you like, to supply the options for "Italian" or "Irish" for "white." They use broad categories which are good enough for demographic purposes based on past findings. The US is a very large and diverse country and no one here finds these sorts of very standard surveys "myopic". I'm not aware of any group or movement fighting for the way hospital forms and every other form and survey depicts these categories. The battle now is more about gender and sexuality; currently the form to get the COVID vaccine in my hospital has 18 boxes.

I'm sorry, but regardless of whether this offends you and others in this thread, this is the reality in America. It is generally not perceived as racist or offensive. There are other arenas for those battles. In your country, if it is a democratic one, you can do it differently and add all the granulation and sensitivity you need. This is how it is done here, like it or not, and the main focus is delivering as many vaccines as possible to the population, and to overcome disparity in health care provision among populations.

 

You do know that the world does not revolve around the United States and that that document you posted is totally out of context with what we are talking about right?
Because I believe that in order to analyze the quality of the Second Life user experience by providing a questionnaire, one should keep in mind that they are not just New York citizens.
I believe that there is always the "common sense" factor to be evaluated thoroughly.

 

[StarlanderGoods]

13 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, you're wrong about that. I didn't just "blurt out" Hispanic in some mistaken mischaracterization -- that's only your belief and perception.In fact, I quoted it from these standard surveys because that's the term they use. Yes, it means "Spanish-speaking" as everyone knows. That's the best way here to create a category for everyone who is from the many diverse countries of Latin America, and sure, it captures people from Spain as well.

Here is the form of instructions to physicians in NYC for the COVID vaccine:

https://hca-nys.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/doh-covid-vaccine-form-instructions.pdf

Here's the COVID vaccine patient form for New York State:

https://forms.ny.gov/s3/vaccine

 

Surveys typically cannot get as granulated as you like, to supply the options for "Italian" or "Irish" for "white" or "Japanese" or "Chinese" for Asian. They use broad categories which are good enough for demographic purposes based on past findings. The US is a very large and diverse country and no one here finds these sorts of very standard surveys "myopic". I'm not aware of any group or movement fighting for the way hospital forms and every other form and survey depicts these categories. The battle now is more about gender and sexuality; currently the form to get the COVID vaccine in my hospital has 18 boxes.

I'm sorry, but regardless of whether this offends you and others in this thread, this is the reality in America. It is generally not perceived as racist or offensive. There are other arenas for those battles. In your country, if it is a democratic one, you can do it differently and add all the granulation and sensitivity you need. This is how it is done here, like it or not, and the main focus is delivering as many vaccines as possible to the population, and to overcome disparity in health care provision among populations.

 

You are missing the point of my post, those terms are only useful within the US borders, that´s why I called the survey US centric, and its fine in that context.

[Prokofy Neva]

44 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

They simply copy/pasted that silly list from Verywell Mind "inc" (Our mission is to help you prioritize your mental health and find balance.) and that's it.

It is the standard list used in any form or survey of any type anywhere. See the hospital forms for the vaccine. I could sit here all day and paste examples for you of this reality. It isn't that this particular survey got it from this particular web page you found; it's that all forms everywhere have this. 

Googling around and trying to find content and search strings that fit your theory is insufficient. Instead, check any government web site at the federal or state level, or even just check a survey that a drugstore might hand out for you to join their discount plan.

Here's the survey results for the public school my son briefly attended, for example:

https://tools.nycenet.edu/guide/2020/#dbn=02M040&report_type=EMS

Notice that it is 80% white -- a decided failure of the efforts to integrate schools in NYC for 50 years. Two other schools he attended, Norman Thomas High School and Bayard Rustin High School, named for a prominent socialist and a civil rights activist, where he was the only white child in his class, were closed down due to gang violence and disciplinary problems. I could tell you a lot of these experiences but I don't wish to discuss it with people on the forums. Let's take another school at random in my area, Asser Levy, mere blocks from P.S. 40 but what a difference a location next to the projects makes.

https://tools.nycenet.edu/guide/2020/#dbn=01M019&report_type=EMS

So the purpose of gathering this basic data which you find a racist and insensitive exercise is in fact to try to end this disparity and to make the schools more equitable through all kinds of efforts, from busing to after-school programs.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Tama Suki]

I give up.
Never thought that the world should revolve around my culture even if we invented the Renaissance and spaghetti with meatballs.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

4 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

You do know that the world does not revolve around the United States and that that document you posted is totally out of context with what we are talking about right?
Because I believe that in order to analyze the quality of the Second Life user experience by providing a questionnaire, one should keep in mind that they are not just New York citizens.
I believe that there is always the "common sense" factor to be evaluated thoroughly.

 

It doesn't matter if the world doesn't revolve around the US, which is decidedly behind other countries in the world these days in economics, education and other indicators. 

What matters is that the people in this thread should become aware that this survey that LL has produced with a hired agency is not an aberration, abnormal, insensitive, crazy, out of line, etc. It is standard. It is how it is done everywhere. First that has to be established because many in this thread don't realize that it *is* standard everywhere in every government office and private company.

Once you accept that "Hispanic" on a form here isn't some gross, awkward misstep but normal and accepted, including by Hispanic people in the US who lobbied for it, THEN you can have a discussion about whether this is appropriate for *this* purpose of polling the SL demographics, which are international. We don't know anymore *how* international as LL does not publish these figures any more. In the past, the user population had a majority of North Americans, but significant populations from Latin America, Europe, Asia. LL prided itself that they could show 4 people who logged on from Iran. I have had customers from Uzbekistan. 

Norms develop out of common sense -- but common sense can differ from country to country. Not by a whole lot, however; I tend to think that once we get beyond the forums and find any Asians and Europeans inworld who aren't on the forums, we would dispel some of this exaggerated outrage. 

It has nothing to do with me being from New York or the Lindens being from San Francisco or their consulting agency from wherever it is. This is how it is everywhere across the 50 United States. Yes, certain people in the tiny percentage of the user base that is the forums are howling in rage, as they are wont to do. This can sometimes be enough for the Lindens to stop in their tracks and change things -- look how they rolled back the Marketplace changes and look how they fixed the Newbrooke houses with only a tiny percent of their customers raging! But on this, they can't change it; it is already in progress. That would throw off the data already gathered. So your goal might be to get the Lindens to do a European-centric survey or an Asian-centric survey, and if there isn't a standardized culture of these forms already in these countries, this could be a battlefield. So go on that battlefield if you like, but again, what's more important for LL and any other private company surveying customers isn't so much location or race but income and purchasing power.

Most of all, like so many other things in SL that the very people raging on this subject instruct others to accept (gatcha policy), LL does such things because they can. It's their company; they are not publicly traded and they do not have public shareholders. They are not a democratic institution; they are a corporation.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

4 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I give up.
Never thought that the world should revolve around my culture even if we invented the Renaissance and spaghetti with meatballs.

 

I'm sure you'll be back in some other thread to battle people on other subjects. 

Explaining how something is standard and accepted, and explaining why it was therefore used (it is not the insanity of merely one company) isn't the same thing as demanding that the world should revolve around American culture. It doesn't. The world is in flames in many places. You can neither explain such crises as are now in Kazakhstan by US culture or involvement, nor could you fix such a situation with US culture or involvement. And I could go on to cite 100 other situations. Explaining the reality of something like this survey isn't a demand that it be replicated across the globe. As I mentioned to Scylla, make your own survey. Run it with free survey tools like Survey Monkey or something. Present the data to LL. Good luck.

[Tama Suki]

13 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It doesn't matter if the world doesn't revolve around the US, which is decidedly behind other countries in the world these days in economics, education and other indicators. 

What matters is that the people in this thread should become aware that this survey that LL has produced with a hired agency is not an aberration, abnormal, insensitive, crazy, out of line, etc. It is standard. It is how it is done everywhere. First that has to be established because many in this thread don't realize that it *is* standard everywhere in every government office and private company.

Once you accept that "Hispanic" on a form here isn't some gross, awkward misstep but normal and accepted, including by Hispanic people in the US who lobbied for it, THEN you can have a discussion about whether this is appropriate for *this* purpose of polling the SL demographics, which are international. We don't know anymore *how* international as LL does not publish these figures any more. In the past, the user population had a majority of North Americans, but significant populations from Latin America, Europe, Asia. LL prided itself that they could show 4 people who logged on from Iran. I have had customers from Uzbekistan. 

Norms develop out of common sense -- but common sense can differ from country to country. Not by a whole lot, however; I tend to think that once we get beyond the forums and find any Asians and Europeans inworld who aren't on the forums, we would dispel some of this exaggerated outrage. 

It has nothing to do with me being from New York or the Lindens being from San Francisco or their consulting agency from wherever it is. This is how it is everywhere across the 50 United States. Yes, certain people in the tiny percentage of the user base that is the forums are howling in rage, as they are wont to do. This can sometimes be enough for the Lindens to stop in their tracks and change things -- look how they rolled back the Marketplace changes and look how they fixed the Newbrooke houses with only a tiny percent of their customers raging! But on this, they can't change it; it is already in progress. That would throw off the data already gathered. So your goal might be to get the Lindens to do a European-centric survey or an Asian-centric survey, and if there isn't a standardized culture of these forms already in these countries, this could be a battlefield. So go on that battlefield if you like, but again, what's more important for LL and any other private company surveying customers isn't so much location or race but income and purchasing power.

Most of all, like so many other things in SL that the very people raging on this subject instruct others to accept (gatcha policy), LL does such things because they can. It's their company; they are not publicly traded and they do not have public shareholders. They are not a democratic institution; they are a corporation.

 

Now imagine if FB did a poll like that asking people "hey you! Are you Hispanic, Asian, African or white? We're doing an American poll, please don't get pissed off and answer!"
LOL!
I have nothing to complain to anyone.
If the people at Linden think that doing a survey like this and proposing it to the world in this way is none of my business. Perhaps from the niche position they have earned they will be able to reach the Olympus of the metaverse in this way.

[Prokofy Neva]

19 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

You are missing the point of my post, those terms are only useful within the US borders, that´s why I called the survey US centric, and its fine in that context.

I think you're back-tracking now, since I've pointed out that you are wrong in your belief that I have "blurted out" some made-up characterization, and show you that it is in fact standard and on forums everywhere. Again, there are two discussions. The first consists of people in this thread being shocked and angered that there are even such categories and forms, and not realizing and acknowledging that these are standard everywhere and people here generally do not perceive them as racist or insensitive. In fact, they are used to overcome racial disparities in health, education, and welfare -- and much more. So that has to be established first, and people are still arguing that it is the norm; and you were yourself five minutes ago claiming I had "blurted out" something "inappropriate" which in fact is on every single US form now.

The second discussion to be had is one of whether this US form, accepted as the norm, is inappropriate for the rest of the world. Then you would have to drill down and decide whether for the purposes of improving SL, you would really gain anything by having the granularity of "Japanese" and "Chinese" and "Filipino". Chin Rey has expressed the opinion that the houses and continents and such that LL has generated that are supposed to be "Asian" aren't really that. I haven't observed them enough to tell, but given that there are real Japanese people making real Japanese sims, you can go to those, for example. What is the data that a non-US centric form would generate such that relevant changes would be made? We all get it that much of the world hates American culture and hates Americans. But then what is going to be in its place? Russian or Chinese culture? I think the faster you get down to the specifics of the culture and its demands rather than panning this particular survey, the better. And make your own survey to capture those nuances. 

Whether too US-centric or not, it's already in progress and capturing what it captures. Those finding it too invasive or too insensitive won't reply and fill it out, and it will get what it gets, which will be partial but likely good enough for LL's purpose of determining how many premium accounts they might sell in 2022. My own sense is: not much more, the market is saturated and likely the non-North American demographic and wealthier parts of Europe such as Germany cannot afford the $11.99/mo or $99/annualized. So that's why they are rolling out "Premium Plus" this year to try to take that same well-worked user base of people buying 7 or 50 Bellisserian homes, and adding more square meters, higher stipends, lower cost uploads, etc. 

Long ago, in a more generous and philanthropic mode, LL introduced free basic accounts (they didn't always exist; the standard was the subscription mode common to every single game in the universe such as World of Warcraft). Some oldbies objected that this would cause more griefing or unemployment or crowding or whatever earth-based old prejudice they could muster. It didn't. Some of the greatest creators and most successful businesses have been created by people with only a basic account who can't even cash out their Lindens in their country. Some of the most beloved people have No Payment Information On File. Basics are most of my customers so I certain value it. LL is unlikely now to remove basic accounts, which was progress for the whole world.

So what specific non-American-centric change would you like to see in the virtual world of SL? I personally would guess on behalf of my tenants: cheaper tier, cheaper subscriptions, more stability. 

[Prokofy Neva]

2 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

Now imagine if FB did a poll like that asking people "hey you! Are you Hispanic, Asian, African or white? We're doing an American poll, please don't get pissed off and answer!"
LOL!
I have nothing to complain to anyone.
If the people at Linden think that doing a survey like this and proposing it to the world in this way is none of my business. Perhaps from the niche position they have earned they will be able to reach the Olympus of the metaverse in this way.

Facebook -- I'm going to go on calling it that at the suggestion of Philip Rosedale, creator of Second Life -- do such polls exactly in that way because they are a US-based company and this is standard here. 

LL is already better at the metaverse than any other company, large or small. And it got that way by having a more diverse staff and more diverse user base than any other company in Silicon Valley. Naturally they can do better as anyone can. But I think it is worth appreciating the facts of what they are. 

[Prokofy Neva]

18 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Do we, in fact, know who received this survey?   

The categories looked odd to me, as Brit, in that they're not not much like I'm used to seeing in surveys, official or otherwise, over here,  and I imagine they're not much like the ones German or Brazilian or Russian or Japanese or Israeli residents of SL are used to, either,  but if the survey was sent only to members of a particular demographic, based on our IP addresses or payment details or whatever, that maybe isn't so surprising.

It would be helpful if you produced samples of such typical surveys you see in your country.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

Now imagine if FB did a poll like that asking people "hey you! Are you Hispanic, Asian, African or white? We're doing an American poll, please don't get pissed off and answer!"
LOL!
I have nothing to complain to anyone.
If the people at Linden think that doing a survey like this and proposing it to the world in this way is none of my business. Perhaps from the niche position they have earned they will be able to reach the Olympus of the metaverse in this way.

I'm pretty sure FB has done such a survey including asking for the demographic information.  The fact that there is no "I prefer not to answer" is concerning and so many people won't even complete the survey because that is missing. I'm pretty sure they could correct this on their end if they wanted to.

[Tama Suki]

28 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm sure you'll be back in some other thread to battle people on other subjects. 

Generally the exact opposite happens, I think you noticed that mostly I mind my own business in the threads I create and the crowd of my fans come to compliment me filling my poster with very authoritative opinions.
This is one of the rare cases where my attention has been drawn to something that I felt an overwhelming need to respond to.
But I see that you have a much stronger personality than mine and I don't think I will be able to draw your attention to my point even if I spend the evening having a lovely long discussion. So I respectfully step aside.
Have a good evening.

[Tama Suki]

10 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I'm pretty sure FB has done such a survey including asking for the demographic information.  The fact that there is no "I prefer not to answer" is concerning and so many people won't even complete the survey because that is missing. I'm pretty sure they could correct this on their end if they wanted to.

Instead I think that in such a survey it would not even be very useful to do in the context of a social network since they can analyze the origin of users without having to ask if they are Asian, African or white.

[Kathlen Onyx]

4 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

Instead I think that in such a survey it would not even be very useful to do in the context of a social network since they can analyze the origin of users without having to ask if they are Asian, African or white.

Are you trying to make a passive aggressive statement by bolding the word White? What's your point Tama?

Edited January 13, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Tama Suki]

9 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

What's your point Tama?

I prefer to pass the baton to someone smarter than me and I will come back to read later, maybe with a little luck someone will decide to explain it with words that I at the moment may not be able to find because I see that I cannot make myself understood.

[StarlanderGoods]

40 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 

So what specific non-American-centric change would you like to see in the virtual world of SL? I personally would guess on behalf of my tenants: cheaper tier, cheaper subscriptions, more stability. 

The whole part about what "culture" would replace north american culture is not on topic, and the real question would be, do we even need the global homogenization of culture? (I would say we dont).

Regarding the quoted part, wich is on topic, expanding their service to consider payment from banks outside US territory would allow a lot of non-US people to spend more money in SL. But they cannot see or measure the impact with surveys that are only directed at taking more money from the already paying userbase from just the US.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by StarlanderGoods
homogenization instead of hegemonization

[Prokofy Neva]

6 minutes ago, StarlanderGoods said:

The whole part about what "culture" would replace north american culture is not on topic, and the real question would be, do we even need the global homogenization of culture? (I would say we dont).

Regarding the quoted part, wich is on topic, expanding their service to consider payment from banks outside US territory would allow a lot of non-US people to spend more money in SL. But they cannot see or measure the impact with surveys that are only directed at taking more money from the already paying userbase from just the US.

 

It is, in fact, on topic, as you can't merely express negative attitudes towards what you dislike, you have to propose alternatives. The reality is not what you wish -- beautifully modulated and granulated settings of widely diverse cultures thriving -- but countries are affected by one or another big superpower imposing its culture. So you have to pick. The reason there is so much terrorism around the world, at home and abroad, is because people don't like having their culture homogenized. But now the homogenized culture is terrorism. So you have to pick.

I agree that the Lab should facilitate payments. Tilia has an office in Great Britain as can readily be seen and they likely do all they can in this regard short of turning SL into a money-laundering operation which they simply cannot allow or they won't be able to exist. LL/Tilia used to allow checks to be mailed to them from other countries, which takes forever especially now with poor mail service in the US and COVID. We should check if that policy persists. They do allow PayPal, which can be accessed by many people in the world. I'm not sure they allow Skrillex anymore but you could check. Obviously they are interested in allowing the most accessibility they can, without sacrificing security against fraud and theft. I know that people in Turkey lobbied the Lindens strenuously for them to create solutions, and they tried to do so.

I suspect if the survey takers display the origin of the survey takers who agreed to participate in their project, you will be surprised that people from your part of the world did take part. They just aren't like you or me (as I noted, I'm likely not to be invited to participate due to low income). So again, I would urge you and others here to develop an alternative survey which I think could potentially be very educational and useful.

[Rowan Amore]

How about this instead...

 

Which category best describes you?

White (Eg: German, Irish, English, Italian, Polish, French, etc)

Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin (Eg: Mexican or Mexican American, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Salvadoran, Dominican, Colombian, etc)

Black or African American (Eg: African American, Jamaican, Haitian, Nigerian, Ethiopian, Somalian, etc)

Asian (Eg: Chinese, Filipino, Asian Indian, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, etc)

American Indian or Alaska Native(Eg: Navajo nation, Blackfeet tribe, Mayan, Aztec, Native Village or Barrow Inupiat Traditional Government, Nome Eskimo Community, etc)

Middle Eastern or North African (Eg: Lebanese, Iranian, Egyptian, Syrian, Moroccan, Algerian, etc)

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander (Eg: Native Hawaiian, Samoan, Chamorro, Tongan, Fijian, etc)

Some other race, ethnicity or origin

[Silent Mistwalker]

16 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

How about this instead...

 

Which category best describes you?

White (Eg: German, Irish, English, Italian, Polish, French, etc)

Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin (Eg: Mexican or Mexican American, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Salvadoran, Dominican, Colombian, etc)

Black or African American (Eg: African American, Jamaican, Haitian, Nigerian, Ethiopian, Somalian, etc)

Asian (Eg: Chinese, Filipino, Asian Indian, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, etc)

American Indian or Alaska Native(Eg: Navajo nation, Blackfeet tribe, Mayan, Aztec, Native Village or Barrow Inupiat Traditional Government, Nome Eskimo Community, etc)

Middle Eastern or North African (Eg: Lebanese, Iranian, Egyptian, Syrian, Moroccan, Algerian, etc)

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander (Eg: Native Hawaiian, Samoan, Chamorro, Tongan, Fijian, etc)

Some other race, ethnicity or origin

 

You might want to read this: Why You Probably Shouldn't Say 'Eskimo'

[Nika Talaj]

Out of curiosity, I did the survey.  For those who might be wondering, there actually are questions OTHER than race/ethnicity and income.  Oh, and as others have mentioned, the purpose of this brief questionnaire is to find subjects for inworld interviews.

Let me point out that if one walks away from a company survey on the basis that it does not address identity/nationality well, one misses the opportunity to directly register any feedback about how that company approaches identity/nationality.

Damn betcha LL market researchers are not reading this thread.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Nika Talaj

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

You might want to read this: Why You Probably Shouldn't Say 'Eskimo'

My point being, even when it's More inclusive of variety, it still won't be ok for everyone.  

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

My point being, even when it's More inclusive of variety, it still won't be ok for everyone.  

Now isn't that an odd coincidence. It was my point, too! 😇

Edited January 13, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker