Second Life Group Chat to Discord Integration?

[Ember Ember]

Because Discord increasingly seems to be the communication platform of choice for outside of Second Life "instant" comms, I am curious to know if Linden Lab would consider implementing an official way to use a webhook to relay an SL Group Chat to Discord. Maybe this is an idea more for 3rd party viewer developers and/or LSL scripters? (Firestorm does have Discord integration where Discord will display your avatar's location if you choose to connect. *nods approvingly*) But it would be awesome to see an option in the official SL Viewer's Group Profile UI where a group owner/officer could input a webhook URL so that Group Chat messages can be sent to Discord. It would be even cooler if this somehow worked both directions (for a Discord channel's messages to be sent back into an SL Group Chat!) I know this kind of integration would have it's caveats and potential security risks and I won't even pretend to understand the code required to achieve this, but I think the positive benefits could enrich Group Chats in SL by making them a lot more accessible and in a lot of cases more active.

Also of note, there's a really great SL to Discord Relay on the marketplace by @Peter Stindberg. (I am not affiliated with or paid to promo this resident's products, I'm just a big fan. I highly recommend them and wanted to include this plug because it is relevant to my topic for those who may also be interested in SL/Discord integration.) If anyone else has any successes and even failures that they want to share about any and all attempts at SL to Discord integration, I'd love to hear about it. 😄

[Henri Beauchamp]

Ouch !

Discord and Second Life do not share the same rules about users privacy !!!

Also, group chats do not have an history that anyone (including non-residents of SL) can see !

I am seeing this as a can of worms, with HUGE privacy concerns (not everyone wants to see their prose shared out of SL and visible by anyone on Internet !). As for any scripted relay, it would also cause privacy violations, especially if SLers in a group chat do not even know in the first place that their prose will be relayed to a discord group !

[Ember Ember]

2 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

especially if SLers in a group chat do not even know in the first place that their prose will be relayed to a discord group

The SL local chat to Discord relay that I use is fully compliant with SL's TOS and privacy agreements because it announces and directly messages avatars within it's range that it is relaying their messages. And it does so after the very first message a user chats within it's range and then continues to so do on either a timer or every certain # of messages so that users are fully aware.

[Coffee Pancake]

The sad state of affairs when SL group chat is now routinely conducted outside of SL.

[Ember Ember]

24 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The sad state of affairs when SL group chat is now routinely conducted outside of SL.

Maybe I'm just naïve or too optimistic, but I only see this as a potential way of getting more users interested (and old users re-interested) in Second Life. If SL was available on mobile devices, it would be a lot easier to keep in touch with SL groups, but as it stands with no official mobile app, I'm just looking for ways to keep those users that cannot login to SL 24/7 connected to SL in some desirable way.

[Sammy Huntsman]

24 minutes ago, Ember Ember said:

Maybe I'm just naïve or too optimistic, but I only see this as a potential way of getting more users interested (and old users re-interested) in Second Life. If SL was available on mobile devices, it would be a lot easier to keep in touch with SL groups, but as it stands with no official mobile app, I'm just looking for ways to keep those users that cannot login to SL 24/7 connected to SL in some desirable way.

I mean if group chats worked more and there wasn't so many issues with it. Maybe people would use group chats more often. I mean I get a lot of my messages dropping, and yeah I would rather Discord over SL group chat.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The sad state of affairs when SL group chat is now routinely conducted outside of SL.

Not really, if LL would actually take the time and fix chat. Then maybe more people would use the the inworld chat. The amount of times things have been dropped for me. SL chat is so unreliable.

[Solar Legion]

17 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Not really, if LL would actually take the time and fix chat. Then maybe more people would use the the inworld chat. The amount of times things have been dropped for me. SL chat is so unreliable.

Here's how they "fix" Group Chat: They don't. They make a separate system, not tied at all to the Land System.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Here's how they "fix" Group Chat: They don't. They make a separate system, not tied at all to the Land System.

Not tied to regions either.

[Nick0678]

6 hours ago, Ember Ember said:

Maybe I'm just naïve or too optimistic, but I only see this as a potential way of getting more users interested (and old users re-interested) in Second Life. If SL was available on mobile devices, it would be a lot easier to keep in touch with SL groups, but as it stands with no official mobile app, I'm just looking for ways to keep those users that cannot login to SL 24/7 connected to SL in some desirable way.

Personally i never use group chat, keep them All disabled because i already know i am not interested in it and also find it annoying getting notifications about nonsense so i wouldn't care if it was relayed to Discord or anywhere else. I would say they should do it though cause it's good for people who use it to have options.

Of course when it comes to communications with most of my SL friends we already use skype/phone/viber etc..

[Alwin Alcott]

7 hours ago, Ember Ember said:

Maybe I'm just naïve or too optimistic, but I only see this as a potential way of getting more users interested (and old users re-interested) in Second Life. If SL was available on mobile devices, it would be a lot easier to keep in touch with SL groups, but as it stands with no official mobile app, I'm just looking for ways to keep those users that cannot login to SL 24/7 connected to SL in some desirable way.

it won't keep or attrackt more people, there are thousends of discords used already and with your statement that would sky rocket the userbase by now;  it doesn't.

 

[Henri Beauchamp]

11 hours ago, Ember Ember said:

The SL local chat to Discord relay that I use is fully compliant with SL's TOS and privacy agreements because it announces and directly messages avatars within it's range that it is relaying their messages. And it does so after the very first message a user chats within it's range and then continues to so do on either a timer or every certain # of messages so that users are fully aware.

SL's privacy agreement only rules out your privacy with regards to SL services, not what you can or must not do with other residents' private matters...

The chapter 6 of the TOS (conduct by users of the service) makes it however very clear, in 6.1:

Quote

You agree that you will not:

.../...

(iv) Post, display, or transmit Content (including any communication(s) with employees of Linden Lab) that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

Emphasis mine.

The Community standards (which rule out how you shall behave and what you shall not do in-world) also make it very clear:

Quote

Disclosure

Sharing personal information about other users, either directly or indirectly, without their consent—including, but not limited to, gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual orientation, alternate account names (including account statuses, such as whether it is on hold, suspended, or active), and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their user profile—is not allowed. Except for the purpose of reporting abuse or any violation of policies to Linden Lab, the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited.

Emphasis mine again.

Now, giving the excuse that your relay warns the user ”after the very first message a user chats within it's range” is not enough: what about that first message (which, as I understand it, gets transmitted before the resident could see the warning) ?... What if the user wishes to chat freely (chat is not a group that you join after reviewing its charter and agreeing with it) and yet not gives their consent to see their prose transmitted outside SL ?... What if the user cannot see this warning (e.g. on a second visit) or forgot about it, because they muted you for having annoying objects that keep spamming them with object IMs ?... Information of the user and explicit consent given by the user are not the same things !

I am sorry, but the chat (*) relay you are using is against both the TOS and the Community standards. Period.

___________________________________________

(*) It might be OK for a group, as long as the information about the relaying is given in the group charter (by joining the group, the user gives their consent).

Edited November 2, 2021 by Henri Beauchamp

[Galaxy Littlepaws]

You already can sync a group chat you own with a discord channel using a Corrade bot and another program they developed. It's handy for certain things like user support for a product without having to use one of those website embeds for the chat that I have seen some services like what Casper offers with their bot rentals.

You just have to have the technical know-how, and I recommend you run both the bot and the program on the same server (can be your main PC) to make it easiest.

And note that you'll get the standard "You're all by yourself" error message chatting in the discord channel from SL if the bot is the only one in the group chat on SL side.

https://grimore.org/secondlife/scripted_agents/corrade/projects/external_services/synchronize_group_chat_and_discord

 

[TonyStark Aristocrat]

We utilize a service called Lethaladdons, which facilitates a seamless connection between Second Life and Discord through a bot. This tool is a cornerstone of our customer service strategy. It enables us to address queries that may arise during the night when our Customer Service Representatives aren't available.

The strength of this tool lies in its ability to bridge any potential communication gaps. While it does experience occasional downtime and necessitates reboots, its value to our customers far outweighs these minor inconveniences. For those who venture into our group chat only to encounter silence, it's crucial to avoid leaving them feeling neglected or unappreciated. As I can't be online around the clock, this bot has been nothing short of a revelation.

One of the remarkable features of this bot is its ability to aggregate positive and constructive feedback that might otherwise have slipped through the cracks. This heightened visibility is invaluable.

Addressing privacy concerns is pivotal, and I understand the reservations. A potential solution could be for Second Life to implement a webhook, as suggested by the original poster. Users could then be given the choice to 'opt-in' or 'opt-out' of this feature. Empowering customers to decide whether they want their chats to extend beyond Second Life is a more ethical approach.

[Ember Ember]

19 minutes ago, TonyStark Aristocrat said:

 

We utilize a service called Lethaladdons

 

Ah, yes, I’ve been using the same service for over a year now. Never did come back to update this forum post about it. All of the people crying, “But my privacy!” without understanding the TOS scared me away from here. 😂 But yes, Smartbots + Lethaladdons has been an absolute boon for my community and I’m a +1 to recommending it to anyone else who happens upon this thread.

http://lethaladdons.com
https://www.mysmartbots.com

[xDancingStarx]

Abusing group chat in a way by artificially increasing chat volume through whatever chat from outside of SL, and putting more strain on an already struggling system.. yeah I'm sure that's what Linden would love to see broadly used.

Edited October 19, 2023 by xDancingStarx

[Wulfie Reanimator]

9 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

Abusing group chat in a way by artificially increasing chat volume through whatever chat from outside of SL, and putting more strain on an already struggling system.. yeah I'm sure that's what Linden would love to see broadly used.

There's really not a "strain" added to the group chat system from having one bot sit in a group and reading/sending messages on behalf of a bunch of people. If anything it can reduce the number of avatars that has to be sent a message by LL's system and alleviates the "struggle."

Builder's Brewery is one really good example of a large group starting to use Discord for things like classes/homework and getting more help from people who just aren't in-world at the time when somebody asks a question. The group has a bunch of really knowledgeable people who mostly respond from Discord. That help would be missed.

[belindacarson]

I'd love to see how this tool is GDPR compliant

[PixelBerry]

If anything they should create a official secondlife discord group.

[Henri Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, PixelBerry said:

If anything they should create a official secondlife discord group.

There is one. Not using it myself (I hate Discord), but exhuming a chat log taken during Open Source meeting, here is the info about it:

Channel: https://discord.gg/gP7H7XVAP3

Invite request form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1I0jtI2N_od9MxkECctnjpFa-W8Vc5Qke41gJcf0v5Yg/

It was setup to discuss contents creation and stuff, but there are likely other ”rooms” (or whatever they call it in Discord) for other stuff...

Edited October 20, 2023 by Henri Beauchamp

[Ember Ember]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:24 AM, belindacarson said:

I'd love to see how this tool is GDPR compliant

No personal data about the user is transmitted without the user’s knowledge because it’s all public information the user already consented to sharing by agreeing to Linden Lab’s TOS. Your statement is the same as if someone were to say, “I’d love to see someone prove that the this tool is not GDPR compliant.” These tools abide by LL’s TOS, and I’m assuming that’s GDPR compliant, right?

All I know is, I’ve been using these tools for about a year now in my community and we’ve had no complaints, and activity in both SL and Discord has just kept growing. I’m sure if it was breaking the law, LL would have shut it down long ago.

[Henri Beauchamp]

4 hours ago, Ember Ember said:

No personal data about the user is transmitted without the user’s knowledge because it’s all public information the user already consented to sharing by agreeing to Linden Lab’s TOS.

Re-read my message above . The SL TOS is not the Discord TOS !... A SL Resident obviously agreed to the SL TOS, but who tells you they also agreed to Discord's one (I certainly did not, and thus why I am not using Discord) ?

As as per the SL TOS and Community Standards, you are not allowed to retransmit out of SL in any way the chat you get with someone in SL, unless all the chatting persons have explicitly and beforehand agreed to this.

Now, if you are using your chat relaying tools for specific purposes, in a place (e.g. a shop, a private sim, etc) where any entering residents would be forewarned that you are retransmitting their chat, this is acceptable (if they are not happy about it, they can move on to another place)... Same thing for a group for which you would relay the IMs, on the condition this is clearly specified in the charter of the said group (if they joined the group, they agreed to its charter).

Edited October 22, 2023 by Henri Beauchamp

[Ember Ember]

35 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Now, if you are using your chat relaying tools for specific purposes, in a place (e.g. a shop, a private sim, etc) where any entering residents would be forewarned that you are retransmitting their chat, this is acceptable

This is exactly the case with these tools. In our group description, right at the top, we warn members that group chat and Discord is a two-way transmission, and it’s very clear all around our sim that discord is an integral part of my community’s form of communication. And the relay we use is in a public chat area that warns users directly, every few minutes that they are transmitted to Discord and they can leave the are if they don’t wish to participate. Telling me to reread your message when you appear to have not read any of mine where I stated most of these factors already is extremely rude.

[belindacarson]

12 hours ago, Ember Ember said:

No personal data about the user is transmitted without the user’s knowledge because it’s all public information the user already consented to sharing by agreeing to Linden Lab’s TOS. Your statement is the same as if someone were to say, “I’d love to see someone prove that the this tool is not GDPR compliant.” These tools abide by LL’s TOS, and I’m assuming that’s GDPR compliant, right?

All I know is, I’ve been using these tools for about a year now in my community and we’ve had no complaints, and activity in both SL and Discord has just kept growing. I’m sure if it was breaking the law, LL would have shut it down long ago.

 GDPR says I'm supposed to be told my private information, such as messages, is being transferred to another service.

 

I have never consented to such data transfered and even if i had, the GDPR nullifies any such agreement.  It's a wonderful tool.

 

So, who is the operator of this tool you imply is exempt from the GDPR?

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by belindacarson

[Galaxy Littlepaws]

Smartbots has been logging and bridging group chats for many years as part of the Group Chat section of their services. With WebTalk for example, they allow you to put the group chat anywhere, even a public website for messaging back and forth and viewing. If you think chat bridging between Second Life group chat and elsewhere is a concern, you may want to look at that as well.