Unpopular Opinion. Redo the mainland from scratch?

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

I'm happy with my little plots, and there are certainly great spots on the mainland but generally its a mess. Sooo much abandoned land without road access or water views that no one wants.

What would you guys think of a complete redo if you were offered some nice space in exchange for what you currently own on the mainland?

Ten bucks says Linden employees would never have time for this but I'm throwing it out there anyway.

[Racheal Rexen]

Maybe update some of the terrain textures and have trees, flowers, stones rez automatically when land is abandon 

[ChinRey]

You're right, it's not going to happen.

But it's an interesting thought experiment. How could such an upgrade be done? Perhaps most important are the questions how to avoid neighboring builds clashing with each other and what to do with the unavoidable stretches of empty land.

 

5 minutes ago, Racheal Rexen said:

Maybe update some of the terrain textures and have trees, flowers, stones rez automatically when land is abandon 

That's not going to work unfortunately. The amount of vegetation you'd end up with would require highly optimized plants that use the minimum of resources and still look good enough to work in a modern virtual world. They also would need to have perfect LoD since they would be supposed to be visible from a long distance by people with the minimum hardware supported by SL. Even the best low lag plant makers still active in SL - people like Theresa Matfield, Alex Bader, Jubjub Forder and Reid Parkins - are not anywhere near that level of optimization. Not to brag but as far as I know I am the only one who makes that kind of plants but apart from a few trees and shrubs I've never bothered to upload them to SL and I can't imagine I ever will.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

48 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

You're right, it's not going to happen.

But it's an interesting thought experiment. How could such an upgrade be done? Perhaps most important are the questions how to avoid neighboring builds clashing with each other and what to do with the unavoidable stretches of empty land.

I don't know but we can figure this out together.

[Feorie Frimon]

GASP!!!! But...but... we'd loose all these gems! *sobs 

*

[Mollymews]

4 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

What would you guys think of a complete redo if you were offered some nice space in exchange for what you currently own on the mainland?

Ten bucks says Linden employees would never have time for this but I'm throwing it out there anyway.

LDPW will have the time one day after they finish Belli

and I think the LDPW approach would/could be to create more themed areas. When areas are themed then it tends to attract people who are into that theme.  Themes also attract people who are into equity, parcel values rise in themed areas

a area doesn't have to be more than one region or even a whole region. There are lots of interior back block regions where most of the land is abandoned and is dull and uninviting. Chop out some LDPW parcel, build some structure like a temple/church on a empty rocky hill. A park on a otherwise indifferent greenishy region. Drop the land under the water level where possible, build a pond. And so on

LDPW have done some of this in regions adjacent to public right-of-ways (roads and waterways) which is cool, but I think these builds just add further ambience to an already more desirable area

is the back blocks (as you mention) that need ambience enhancing builds I think

 

 

[Rabid Cheetah]

Everything the human species has ever built has started with someone daring to say "What if".  Never give up on ideas, whether in real life or a virtual world.

 

#StrenghFinder #Ideation

Edited June 18, 2021 by Rabid Cheetah

[ChinRey]

6 hours ago, Feorie Frimon said:

GASP!!!! But...but... we'd loose all these gems! *sobs *

That would be a shame. Seriously, it would.

There should be room in SL for everything that is technically possible to have there. Personally I think that build looks really cool but taste differs and it's beside the point anyway. An eyesore isn't something that is ugly, it's something that clashes with the surroundings. So the question should never be what people are allowed to build but where.

 

5 hours ago, Mollymews said:

LDPW will have the time one day after they finish Belli

Yes but they can't. I don't mean that they are poor builders or anything like that (that's a completely different discussion), they don't have the capacity and ability to cover all bases. When I look at recent Mole build what strikes me the most is the sameness and there's no way to avoid that. Every builder, big or small, have their style. I have mine, you have yours and the Moles have theirs. It's the variety created by thousands of contributors, each with their own cultural background, ideas and perception, that makes SL interesting to so many people. The question is, how do we maintain that variety and make the sum greater, not lesser, than the parts?

Edited June 18, 2021 by ChinRey

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Yes but they can't. I don't mean that they are poor builders or anything like that (that's a completely different discussion), they don't have the capacity and ability to cover all bases. When I look at recent Mole build what strikes me the most is the sameness and there's no way to avoid that. Every builder, big or small, have their style. I have mine, you have yours and the Moles have theirs. It's the variety created by thousands of contributors, each with their own cultural background, ideas and perception, that makes SL interesting to so many people. The question is, how do we maintain that variety and make the sum greater, not lesser, than the parts?

i don't disagree that the Belli project has a sameyness look to it. The Zindra project resulted in a sameyness, same with Horizons, Bay City, etc

when we look at the Mole spot builds tho on mainland then the individuality of the respective mole builders does tend to come thru.  A quite wide variety of bridges, road pavings, roadside builds, dams, waterways, island builds, welcome areas, etc

[Marianne Little]

The only eyesores in Mainland, or private estates as well, is enormous privacy walls and low hanging skyboxes. That could be a ban, and should be a ban.

The rest is really the problem of no public space between people. I think that would take away 90% of the issues. As it is now, you can have houses literally up to the border and people should not give up their own land they paid for, just to get distance.

The land should have corridors of public space and set parcel sizes that people can't divide and abandon.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Marianne Little

[Extrude Ragu]

I don't advocate for destroying what's already there, but it would be good to see improvements in future development.

I think it would be interesting if Linden Labs next Mainland development was a more European approach to land development as an alternative life style for SecondLife residents

What I mean is, SecondLife takes this largely American approach where there are these square parcels of land, everyone has a big lawn, everything is so spaced apart that there is no motivation to leave your parcel as everything is too far away to walk. In fact, for a game where walking is the primary way of movement, Linden Lab does not even build sidewalks on their roads let alone independent pathways. They expect you to own a car to get around SecondLife, which seems to be a uniquely American way of doing things.

Having some mainland based around European cities would be an interesting experiment. When things are closer together, things are in walking distance,  people are more likely to wander and run into their neighbors. Big shared open spaces such as parks within the community etc. There is little need to accommodate cars in a game where people can lift off the ground and fly.

[Marianne Little]

I would not see old Mainland removed, but what about all the abandoned land? it is only sitting there. And while I am not technical, it must cost something to have it on the servers. Could the abandoned land be removed and be used for a new continent? I do not like that either, it would ruin the heritage continents.

But what to do with all the abandoned land, and how much land can LL hold when they expand and no one want the abandoned land that's a barren wasteland?

But is it even possible... for LL to have lower tier to make sure it stays in use? Land is so expensive, and the cost is the same for waterfront as for inland. I would need an incentive to take inland instead.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Marianne Little

[Feorie Frimon]

5 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I would not see old Mainland removed, but what about all the abandoned land? it is only sitting there. And while I am not technical, it must cost something to have it on the servers. Could the abandoned land be removed and be used for a new continent? I do not like that either, it would ruin the heritage continents.

But what to do with all the abandoned land, and how much land can LL hold when they expand and no one want the abandoned land that's a barren wasteland?

But is it even possible... for LL to have lower tier to make sure it stays in use? Land is so expensive, and the cost is the same for waterfront as for inland. I would need an incentive to take inland instead.

Shameless plug here - I'm actually doing a YouTube series right now where I go around the mainland, find abandoned land, submit a ticket to Linden Labs to claim it, then build it out in the theme with wherever it is. Then resell it for a nominal fee (around$2500L) for residents to purchase and maintain on their own. It gives me a little profit so I can do it again and helps with the goal to make the mainland grid look less desolate.

I've got mix emotions about this though - so far, almost all of the plots I've sold have been bulldozed and rebuilt out and relisted for sale for $8k or more  (they are all still for sale right now too). So, that part sucks.

But the good news is, the plot has been rehabbed - even if they didn't like what I built, I've gotten a chance to make videos for residents on -how- I built the plot out (so they can learn for themselves), and now the plot has -something- on it and it's not a barren sad empty space. That part is a win and ultimately helps with the overall goal - to make the mainland full of life and hopefully beautiful and 'lived in' again. 

If Linden Labs can't take the time to revamp the mainland, then I say we do it as residents! Maintaining a little mainland plot and making it look used is a great way to help turn the grid into a really cool collab of different cultures, spaces, and minds. And for residents that have a little extra $$ and space, make a pretty public spot, then send me a LM and I'll add it to the list of 'cool places to go on the mainland' for any resident that wants to visit and has a heart for it like I do.

[Feorie Frimon]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

The only eyesores in Mainland, or private estates as well, is enormous privacy walls and low hanging skyboxes. That could be a ban, and should be a ban.

I actually agree with this. It's so easy to put a skybox at 2000 or 2500 feet, and now even if a resident has their graphics/draw distance maxed out, they can't see it from the ground. This would go a long way to not only beautifying the mainland, but giving space for flyers/planes too. 

Privacy walls make me so sad. I wish residents that did this would pan back and see what happens to the land around them when they put these privacy walls up. You can usually see a big 'bald spot' of abandoned land near these parcels and it totally sucks. Sure, you can 'derender it', but the number of residents that learn they can actually do this is very small.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

10 hours ago, Mollymews said:

LDPW will have the time one day after they finish Belli

Drop the land under the water level where possible, build a pond. And so on

I'm not sure Belli is ever going to be finished! I think they'll keep that ball rolling because it brings in $$$

Dropping the land to make regions more watery is a great idea.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

The only eyesores in Mainland, or private estates as well, is enormous privacy walls and low hanging skyboxes. That could be a ban, and should be a ban.

I don't agree that's its the only eyesore but I'm totally with you about the privacy walls and low sky boxes.

[Feorie Frimon]

I think less G rated sims, too! I find most of the abandoned land on my journeys there. I wonder how hard it would be to just bump the rating up from G to Moderate?

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

2 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

There is little need to accommodate cars in a game where people can lift off the ground and fly.

But people love land beside a road. They also love virtual cars. 

[Sid Nagy]

It all depends on how long you estimate that SL will still be around.
Building Bellisseria will take a few more years I guess.
Then they could start to tear down the first linden homes projects and turn these sims in a new kind of mainland.
Then it will be most likely close to 2025-2030. Somewhere around SLB25. 

Anyone thinking SL has that many years left?

 

 

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I don't agree that's its the only eyesore but I'm totally with you about the privacy walls and low sky boxes.

No, it is many more eyesores. But if we start, where do we end? It must also be easy to report and police. It can not be a matter of doubt. Measure the wall, check the skybox height. It has to be allowed some walls, but a max height much under 64 m.

Over in the Bellisseria part of the forum... I have seen complaints of helicopters on the houseboats and palms. This is a taste question and I think that's too far. If people demand themes like ban on palms, they can find the estates that do so.

I am a firm believer of communal land to separate private land. Much of what one dislike, feels worse because it is in our face. A distance between would help a lot.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Marianne Little

[Coffee Pancake]

As land design goes, mainland is pretty good. Some higher resolution terrain textures and filling in voids and coastlines wouldn't go amiss, neither would updating roads and scenic furniture with mesh content.

The issue with mainland is fractional land ownership, legacy accounts, sentimentality and land barrons.

I would really like to see an end to commercial sub letting on mainland, that will clear out a ton of ugly 'prospecting' junk, and reworking of parcel / linden land balance to covert all parcels over to double prim ones.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

There's just sooo sooo much empty, unpaid for virtual land in SL. That HAS to be costing them something to maintain. Regions and regions of abandoned land at the center of the continents.

That land has no water, and no roads. People want water and good looking infrastructure. Otherwise it'll sit empty.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

There's just sooo sooo much empty, unpaid for virtual land in SL. That HAS to be costing them something to maintain. Regions and regions of abandoned land at the center of the continents.

That land has no water, and no roads. People want water and good looking infrastructure. Otherwise it'll sit empty.

If LL own the entire region, they can reparcel it up and make the land "double prim" by putting an empty Linden owned border around parcels and blocking subdivision.

That land will go from worthless to premium in about 5 seconds flat.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

yeah even just empty Linden owned borders around parcels with a few GOOD trees and bushes would go a long way. Double prim even better. 

[ChinRey]

50 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I would really like to see an end to commercial sub letting on mainland, that will clear out a ton of ugly 'prospecting' junk

Unfortunately it would also clear out the few attempts to create larger consistent and eyesore free landscapes that currently exist.