Jump to content
You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 85 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Walelu Summerwind said:

I'm white and live in the South. Most of my life has been lived in varying degrees of poverty. When I was younger, I was homeless for a long time. If I wanted to eat, I had to raid a McDonald's dumpter right after closing time. I was always on the verge of starvation. Not all white people experience the bliss of "white privilege".. Life has been hard for so many of us.

These things have been your story, but they have NOT been BECAUSE you were White.

And that is what privilege is about.

Many suffer, sure.

Your race did not cause your injuries. It is not WHY other people forced you to be poor or took away the wealth you and your kin once had. Your race is not today making your situation worse or keeping your issues from being addressed.

Other factors might be - but you being white is not WHY your situation is what it is.

And that is the Privilege of your race - that it does not normally define boundaries, limits, or violence upon you. You may have been held down, even by others acting against you. But you were not held down, held back, or made poor BECAUSE you were white.

You may fear for your children when they go out of your house, or even when they are in your house... but you are unlikely to fear that BECAUSE they are white they might lose their lives, and for ONLY that reason. That is privilege.

 

Privilege is being able to not have to think about how race will be weaponized against you. Privilege is being able to see a conversation like this one in this thread and have no personal idea what these people are talking about.

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

Posted Images

On 7/23/2020 at 12:05 PM, Janet Voxel said:

No, it's been like that for a while, it's just that very few people stand up to it here, so there's a weird comfort level with certain things being said. When I first started posting here, there was a right wing troll here posting regularly and a lot of regulars were agreeing with them. They got banned briefly and went over to another SL forum and promptly got rolled up like a carpet and sent packing. That should tell you something right there. A little jab here, a little poke there....its fiiiine, it was a little flip comment.  I used to think some people were just unaware of certain things and if you just took time to explain them, that would help. Then I started to realize most of the time, that's not what it is. Then I thought maybe its a generational thing, nah...that's not it either. There's just a certain level of comfort that exist because the rules are arbitrarily enforced and people are able to exploit them.

 

I used to have a very full friends list.  This George Floyd thing has cut that list down to 12.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have spent hours reading this thread.

The people on the left.. all three of them... are debating, and trying desperately to educate, while continually re-examining their own beliefs.  The people on the right are moving onto more whataboutism every time their last point is shot down by objective facts.

Funny be that, says I.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2020 at 7:05 PM, Janet Voxel said:

. They got banned briefly and went over to another SL forum and promptly got rolled up like a carpet and sent packing. That should tell you something right there.

 

comes from your wishlist i think ... nobody got banned, people simply stopped replying to this. It's not worth the energy to talk to people without sense of reality.

Edited by Alwin Alcott
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Your race did not cause your injuries. It is not WHY other people forced you to be poor or took away the wealth you and your kin once had. 

Who's taking away money from black people? If you're talking about slavery, that's irrelevant because no one today is a slave.

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Now local cops are getting into the act of behaving like East German Secret Police:

- Flagrant Constitutional violations right there.

 

Legally speaking... the public here could lawfully have shot at those men under 'defense of others' - as it looks like a kidnapping, not an arrest.

No reading of rights, no identifying as police, no probable cause.

 

She was a he and had criminally damaged 5 police cameras. The police bullet proof vests were a dead giveaway they were police aside from the bike cops with plainly marked Police uniforms that arrived on the scene right away. Probably had his rights read in the car when safely inside which seems rational considering its the middle of a protest that could have turned riotous given the right trigger.

I suspect you would have a tough time winning a case for any constitutional violations but hey, it sounds good.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

She was a he and had criminally damaged 5 police cameras. The police bullet proof vests were a dead giveaway they were police aside from the bike cops with plainly marked Police uniforms that arrived on the scene right away. Probably had his rights read in the car when safely inside which seems rational considering its the middle of a protest that could have turned riotous given the right trigger.

I suspect you would have a tough time winning a case for any constitutional violations but hey, it sounds good.

If a police officer see's you commit a crime or they feel they have enough evidence that proof is found, they don't have to read you your rights..

Only if they are investigating  and questioning the person do they have to read you your rights..

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

It is not WHY other people forced you to be poor or took away the wealth you and your kin once had.

This has happened to countless people for millennia and while it might not have been because they were white, it was for other reasons, however.  In the 20th Century, it was the Blacks in this country, and the Jews, The Poles, the disabled, the gypsies, the homosexuals in Europe with Germania, Lutheranism and the Nazi's.  And, then the Irish troubles.  There are a lot of "troubles".  

And, just look back over centuries, it was a lot of people who lost their lands for thousands of years by the conquerors.

The white privilege was definitely in far greater existence pre Civil Rights than it is now.  And, it was those white privileged (the ones in power) that took away the Black people's lands.

It's always the ones with the power.  

Is the WASP culture still prevalent today in America as it was in the 1960's?  Not so much so, but it still exists.  

I don't know if anyone will give me and my family the property that was stolen in Poland from my Grandmother.  My grandmother came to America with one steamer truck which later became mine.  

I even think Blacks were not as favored nor wanted because they were not Anglo Saxon and thus would not be an ally to further the WASP culture.  The preferred ones in this country have been the Anglo Protestants and they are quite wealthy and often times the ones in power.  Look up the heritage of every single America president and you will find they ALL have a United Kingdom or Anglo Saxon heritage.   Even President Obama's mother was British.  And then, look at the Polish and Irish, they were not wanted by the Anglo Protestants in this country either.   Why they took us in, I sometimes don't even know why it's so schizophrenic.  

Even Trump and Biden have a U.K. heritage.  I'm not so sure it is because you are Black.  Not Anglo Saxon perhaps.  

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

And that is the Privilege of your race - that it does not normally define boundaries, limits, or violence upon you. You may have been held down, even by others acting against you. But you were not held down, held back, or made poor BECAUSE you were white.

This might have been true years ago but nowadays it really is no longer a valid assumption. 2 cases in point-

Earlier this month, a good friend of mine who is a card carrying native went a bit ballistic on his landlord after watching too much BLM stuff. Landlord served him an eviction notice and my friend called the welfare agency, leaving a message about his eviction and need for help. In less than 24 hours he was in a conference call with the welfare worker, her supervisor, the agencies lawyer, a rep of the Indian affairs and a representative of the local township all trying to get him sorted with a place asap. He quickly received a cheque for some funds, offer from the lawyer to fight the eviction notice for free, an offer to be given a place on any of the local reservations, an increase of welfare funds because his wife had passed away a number of years back, etc. etc. All these government officials bending over backwards to get him sorted as quickly as possible. A white friend on the other hand, a few months before, was basically told "sucks to be you."

Case 2. A few years ago when i was doing some contract work at a hospital, I was asked to supervise a small crew of workers from both the housekeeping and maintenance departments to prepare a new wing. Work got underway but after 15 minutes or so one of the Black housekeeping guys walked off the job. I waited a while for him to return and when he didn't, I tracked him down and asked what was up and that I needed him to return to help out. He refused and stated he would complain of racism if I made an issue of it. I went to the housekeeping supervisor and mentioned the problem and he just shook his head and said to leave it as they could not be bothered with the headache of dealing with a race card, legit or not, each time he didn't want to do a particular job. Us whities don't have a race card to pull out when something doesn't suit us. We lack that privilege.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If a police officer see's you commit a crime or they feel they have enough evidence that proof is found, they don't have to read you your rights..

Only if they are investigating  and questioning the person do they have to read you your rights..

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

They must read you your Miranda Rights (5th Amendment) before questioning and allow your lawyer to be present during questioning.

In depth explanation: http://www.mirandawarning.org/whatareyourmirandarights.html

Even today many believe if you aren't Miranda'd when arrested, the case will be thrown out of court. That has never been true. It's only when you are questioned that they must read you your rights and they must allow your lawyer/attorney to be present during all questioning sessions.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

These things have been your story, but they have NOT been BECAUSE you were White.

Have you even considered it is not because you are Black but because you are considered to be of non Anglo Saxon heritage?

The Poles were declared not German in WWI and WWII and are considered The Slavics.  The Irish have been declared The Celts.  Both Polish people and Irish people are not considered Anglo Saxon and both have been "the outcasts" and not because they are Polish or Irish.

Even Susan Rice, one of the proposed candidates for Vice President is of Jamaican heritage.  Jamaica is part of the commonwealth of England and the Queen of England still the head of state of Jamaica.  All the presidents of the United States have been either Anglo Saxon or of U.K. heritage, and all except Kennedy, Protestant.  

I think this Anglo Saxon "thing" is discriminatory and it's seen it's day.  It's archaic.    

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

They must read you your Miranda Rights (5th Amendment) before questioning and allow your lawyer to be present during questioning.

In depth explanation: http://www.mirandawarning.org/whatareyourmirandarights.html

Even today many believe if you aren't Miranda'd when arrested, the case will be thrown out of court. That has never been true. It's only when you are questioned that they must read you your rights and they must allow your lawyer/attorney to be present during all questioning sessions.

That was what I was getting at..

When they read you your rights, they are  looking for more evidence..

This is why just about any lawyer  will advise clients that  if in any time in the future you get pulled over for suspicion of drinking and driving..

First thing is to ask is, if you are under arrest..If they say yes.. Then just keep quiet and don't tell them anything other than you want your attorney..

 

ETA: Also, I just made some of the best stir fry in my life and just have to say it somewhere... so I'm saying it here..it's that good!! \o/

hehehehe

 

Edited by Ceka Cianci
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:
8 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

These things have been your story, but they have NOT been BECAUSE you were White.

Have you even considered it is not because you are Black but because you are considered to be of non Anglo Saxon heritage?

Whiteness and Blackness in human beings weren't defined until early slavery times in the US. It was easier for slavers to keep track of their property if "it" had distinguishing characteristics which set "it" apart, and darker-colored skin conveniently achieved this goal. White slaves and indentured servants were freed over a period of time as laws changed while Blacks increasingly were never allowed freedom after working off their time as indentured servants (some Blacks were in this type of contract early on).  Captured slaves were already seen as savage and unlike Westerners, but the slavers further justified enslaving and abusing Blacks by going to great lengths describing their darker-skinned property as inferior, without morals, savage, and in some cases not even truly human.

Once society has a scapegoat and believes someone or something is bad it's very difficult for attitudes to change. It really hasn't been that long ago since Jim Crow times -- these kinds of deeply held attitudes take generations to resolve. Social Science tests demonstrate many still believe Blacks are criminal and incompetent.

So anyway, it's not really Black skin per se that people are prejudiced against...it's the meaning we've assigned through the years to this skin color that's the culprit.

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

These things have been your story, but they have NOT been BECAUSE you were White.

And that is what privilege is about.

Many suffer, sure.

Your race did not cause your injuries. It is not WHY other people forced you to be poor or took away the wealth you and your kin once had. Your race is not today making your situation worse or keeping your issues from being addressed.

Other factors might be - but you being white is not WHY your situation is what it is.

And that is the Privilege of your race - that it does not normally define boundaries, limits, or violence upon you. You may have been held down, even by others acting against you. But you were not held down, held back, or made poor BECAUSE you were white.

You may fear for your children when they go out of your house, or even when they are in your house... but you are unlikely to fear that BECAUSE they are white they might lose their lives, and for ONLY that reason. That is privilege.

 

Privilege is being able to not have to think about how race will be weaponized against you. Privilege is being able to see a conversation like this one in this thread and have no personal idea what these people are talking about.

This is so clear I just had to quote it!

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I have seen many black people speaking out about BLM.  And just cos some say it doesn't exist doesn't mean it does.  It goes both ways ya know.

I shall wait here for your replies about Uncles Toms, the evils of conservative black people denying their race blah blah blah.

This post is directed to both you and @Arielle Popstar because she's frequently been involved in this particular topic.

It's true there are Blacks who don't believe their 'race' is oppressed in the US -- you've asserted that I must think they are Uncle Toms or traitors to their race. Some may be traitors to their race, denying the struggles of their own 'kind' as they suck up to Whites to gain status or material goods, but I don't think all are. Instead, as conservatives I think many are focusing on the supremacy of the individual as the solution to conflicts in society and so they minimize the importance of the community which surrounds an individual (the focusing of community in conflict solutions being more the liberal perspective). With others, I think they deny the reality of community and its effects on individuals to such a degree they are almost delusional, or at the very least lack Psychological knowledge which applies to how humans develop and what they need to function optimally. 

In any society there is always a tension between the individual and the rest of the community surrounding that individual. Care must be taken to both strengthen and limit the importance of each side so that one side does not impose on the other -- balancing the needs of the individual with the needs of the community creates an optimally functioning society. This is the core conflict between liberals and conservatives -- individual rights vs community rights and how to make sure one side does not infringe on the other. Focusing ONLY on the community for solutions and neglecting the rights of an individual would be a type of Communism where the individual had no agency whatsoever. And focusing ONLY on the individual would be utter selfishness and a total denial of reality since no person exists alone without the influence of the community which surrounds them. So we don't want these extremist positions, but rather a balance between the two.

And so, we have to take each Black individual you've alluded to and dive into their philosophy to understand their reasons for not believing Blacks are oppressed. Just as an extreme liberal can become unbalanced and only see the validity of community in solving conflicts, so the extreme conservative can become unbalanced and only see the supremacy of the individual in all matters. It is really the middle ground, appraising both sides and seeing the value of both, or the harm that comes when only one side is considered, which can provide the correct solution to societal problems.

I admire most the conservative Blacks who believe in individual responsibility and do not want Blacks to feel they are victims or be treated as such, and yet realize there still are some disadvantages in society which make it more difficult for some Blacks to succeed. They can both fight to strengthen the individual Black person along with fighting for society to change prejudiced attitudes toward that Black individual, and believe in removing barriers to success in the community as well as barriers to success within any individual.

So which Black conservative do you like and why? We can discuss them and see if we think they're balanced.

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

She was a he and had criminally damaged 5 police cameras.

She is a trans woman, and so is a woman.

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Whiteness and Blackness in human beings weren't defined until early slavery times in the US. It was easier for slavers to keep track of their property if "it" had distinguishing characteristics which set "it" apart, and darker-colored skin conveniently achieved this goal. White slaves and indentured servants were freed over a period of time as laws changed while Blacks increasingly were never allowed freedom after working off their time as indentured servants (some Blacks were in this type of contract early on).  Captured slaves were already seen as savage and unlike Westerners, but the slavers further justified enslaving and abusing Blacks by going to great lengths describing their darker-skinned property as inferior, without morals, savage, and in some cases not even truly human.

Do you have a source that says the words "whiteness" and "blackness" were used during Colonial times?  I think they used the archaic word "Negro" and/or to mean those from "Negroland" which is also archaic.  I'm not even sure where this term "white" came from?  Are you sure that was a term used in Colonial times?

However, I don't think one can completely dismiss that all the presidents of The United States have been of Anglo Saxon and/or U.K. descent.  

I think the people of Negro and/or Negroland descent were not seen as useful for the commonwealth and shouldn't be something that is just swept under the rug as governments use whatever labor is cheapest and/or most beneficial to it's existing governmental systems.  

Plus, the Negro was not part of the nepotism that was a large part of the Colonial WASP culture.  

I'm not so convinced this is just skin color related.  Yes, religiously they may have been seen as savage and immoral because, for one thing, to the conquerors, they most certainly did not wear appropriate clothing and were considered inappropriately clothed, among other things but their way of not being "dressed" was most certainly pointed out, even in Christopher Columbus' writings as his writings said "they were naked, as was their custom".   To the early religious people, this would have been considered insane, most likely.  

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

White favoritism is part of America, but it leans more towards the wealthy.  None of us can compete with that kind of money no matter what kind of skin color we are.

And, the businessman always looking for the cheapest labor.  The white man actually became too expensive, so more women were being hired than men and even black women or POC women rather a man who is "too expensive" to hire.  It's business crap; we are all expendable in the working class as there is always someone or something to do the job for less than us.  We have no more unions, no more health care for most.   

Yeah, I believe money as much as race is the root of it all.

Looking at previous elections you'll see that Republicans always bring out some racial issue during elections -- it's always the dark people invading and trying to steal something from us Whites, painting darker-skinned people as bad in the process. During Reagan's campaign it was the 'welfare queen', during Bush it was the dog-whistle politics and claiming to be tough on crime with the Black man, Willie Horton, in 2018 it was the supposed caravan of immigrants ready to attack us on our southern border.  'Us & Them politics' used to divide us so the wealthy can get us fighting each other while they run off with most of the money. So you can't really divide the racial issues from the wealth and class ones, as POC are used as pawns within both.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Do you have a source that says the words "whiteness" and "blackness" were used during Colonial times?  I think they used the archaic word "Negro" and/or to mean those from "Negroland" which is also archaic.  I'm not even sure where this term "white" came from?  Are you sure that was a term used in Colonial times?

However, I don't think one can completely dismiss that all the presidents of The United States have been of Anglo Saxon and/or U.K. descent.  

I think the people of Negro and/or Negroland descent were not seen as useful for the commonwealth and shouldn't be something that is just swept under the rug as governments use whatever labor is cheapest and/or most beneficial to it's existing governmental systems.  

Plus, the Negro was not part of the nepotism that was a large part of the WASP culture.  

I'm not so convinced this is just skin color related.

I believe this definition of white vs black and when it came into being was described in a documentary I posted to you long ago.  It's not so much the words though that are important, it's how words were used to designate a population for their financial gain. The important point was that there was no definition in the world of 'whiteness' until then, set against darker skin tones.

It was not skin color per se that was the issue...it's the meaning the early slavers gave to skin color....it was convenient for them to have an easily identifiable population that was different from themselves...easier to keep track of.

This is all documented in early laws of that time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

it's how words were used to designate a population for their financial gain. The important point was that there was no definition in the world of 'whiteness' until then, set against darker skin tones.

Yes, in the archaic word "Negroland" this was used to describe the natives as well.  It was a term used to describe all those of darker skin tones as though they came from "somewhere else".  

The whites were the ones with the big money that came onto this land.

So, yes, we cannot deny it's been about money too.  

I hope we do get past this Anglo Saxon "thing" though as it has been a source of discrimination and is archaic and not for the modern world.  People have changed.  

Edited by FairreLilette
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, in the archaic word "Negroland" this was used to describe the natives as well.  It was a term used to describe all those of darker skin tones as though they came from "somewhere else".  

The whites were the ones with the big money that came onto this land.

So, yes, we cannot deny it's been about money too.  

I hope we do get past this Anglo Saxon "thing" though as it has been a source of discrimination and is archaic and not for the modern world.  People have changed. 

Many weren't wealthy when they first arrived. But through stealing the Native's land and using free labor via slavery to produce goods many of them became wealthy. So slavery was always about money, just like keeping a huge amount of Black men in prison and feeding the prison industrial complex is about money, and making sure groups of low-wage earners at the bottom levels of society keep funneling money to the wealthiest is a system to benefit the wealthy few at the top.   They want to keep POC and Whites fighting each other so they can keep their privileged position, hence all this race-baiting through the years, only increasing with Trump.

It is very weird that such a strange setup long ago still affects Blacks so negatively. That's why I say the Blacks have been the latrine of America.

Part of their tactics early on were designed to separate the poorer Whites from the Blacks. They gave small favors to the Whites and made them believe the Blacks were the source of so many of their troubles. And it continues.

You should research the early years of the colonies. It was very enlightening for me. Definitely nothing I learned in school. Some is online, and I have this book Stamped From The Beginning I've yet to finish.

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It is very weird that such a strange setup long ago still affects Blacks so negatively. That's why I say the Blacks have been the latrine of America.

Yeah, I know...that's why I've been wondering if there was more to it.  

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Many weren't wealthy when they first arrived. But through stealing the Native's land and using free labor via slavery to produce goods many of them became wealthy. So slavery was always about money

I didn't know that.  I thought they came over here with money.  

 

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

just like keeping a huge amount of Black men in prison and feeding the prison industrial complex is about money

Yep.  This ^^^^^^^^ needs to change.  

But, like I wrote in another post, men were pushed aside for quite some time and women were the most hired because it was thought a woman could be paid less of a salary.

It's just sad.  Just sad, all of it.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's just sad.  Just sad, all of it.

It is. All we can do is fight power abuses when we see them. Learn, educate, vote, join groups fighting for change, phone our representatives both locally and nationally and make our voices heard. Quite a few changes have actually happened by flooding them with our voices.

We are never powerless!

Edited by Luna Bliss
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 85 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...