When Did it Become Acceptable to Bring Politic of Hate into SL?

[Drayke Newall]

3 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

The EUs systems are based on either direct vote or appointments of their respective democratic Parliament's. Words like despotic and comparisons with Naziism seem pretty ridiculous and frankly obnoxious in equal measure, but not so uncommon in English\Welsh politics. This fervent desire for self determination will whether they like it or not ultimately see to the break up of the UK. Scotland and Northern Ireland both have the same rights to self determination, and they are clear that their interests lie within Europe not outside it.

Be that as it may, until Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can support themselves independently from the coat tails of England's wealth any such independence talk or actuality of such notions happening are slim.

Also no one is trying to compare it to Nazism, the map was an interesting reflection on comparing the two at the height of their power showing similarities in territorial claim. One must also keep in mind that the EU originally started as an Economic union solely to allow trade and monies to flow freely across Europe. It has now though, since around 2014, being politicised whereby the union is starting to interfere with each independent democracies sovereign right. The forcing of EU immigration laws relating to Refugee intake are an example of this and was a direct contributor to the UK's response, to leave.

Additionally, given that all imports are controlled and disbursed by the EU, some countries are of the opinion that they are not getting their fair share leading downturns in their economy. This was a primary reason for Greenland as a Territory leaving the EU in 1986 due to issues with fishery laws the EU were trying to impose and successfully did after Greenland left.

Fun fact, all of England's fish in its own territorial waters are fished and then sent to EU for distribution. Australia was a key provider of sugar to England (offering it cheaper than any one could due to Australia being a commonwealth nation) before them joining the EU and yet silos that once were filled with sugar stand empty.

[Ceka Cianci]

20 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I don't see how.

It was just a guess..I mean I didn't get the impression that they were saying everyone is actually white..

I'm actually really curious what they meant to be honest.. hehehehe

It may have just been an example of some kind..who knows really ..hehehe

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Aethelwine]

15 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Wrong. You forgot one thing : My people ( the Dutch ) had a specific referendum ( people' vote ) explicitely  saying "NO!" to the Euro, the EU and us joining in it.

It was simply neglected and referenda have been abolished since then, because they don't want the people to have a voice.

 

What's NOT despotic about that ?

 

If you mean the 2016 vote, Subsequent votes an opinion polls have shown the opposite. It would have been more despotic to act on a poll that was explicitly non-binding in the first place, that had low turn out and lost what support it had later.

[Ted McGregor]

@Aethelwine : Your obsession to leave the UK is not going to fare well when running into the arms of these despots nobody ever voted for. 

OK.. near Godwin .. but this 'guy' really takes the biscuit in coming close.

Edited January 11, 2020 by TDD123

[Drayke Newall]

4 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

If you mean the 2016 vote, Subsequent votes an opinion polls have shown the opposite. It would have been more despotic to act on a poll that was explicitly non-binding in the first place, that had low turn out and lost what support it had later.

But you have to wonder why this was the case. If you look at 2016 approximately 14 countries were looking at leaving with favourable polls indicating public support. The one clause all these countries stated was "lets wait and see what happens when the UK try". Is it any wonder why such polls now show a reverse in secession with the difficulty the EU has imposed on the UK trying to leave? This 'force' applied by the EU on UK and the ramifications of them refusing free trade agreements to continue etc, could be argued as the EU's tactic to ensure these other countries don't leave.

[Aethelwine]

 

5 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

But you have to wonder why this was the case. If you look at 2016 approximately 14 countries were looking at leaving with favourable polls indicating public support. The one clause all these countries stated was "lets wait and see what happens when the UK try". Is it any wonder why such polls now show a reverse in secession with the difficulty the EU has imposed on the UK trying to leave? This 'force' applied by the EU on UK and the ramifications of them refusing free trade agreements to continue etc, could be argued as the EU's tactic to ensure these other countries don't leave.

The EU were never going to roll over and give the UK what the Brexiters wanted. That is not how negotiations work, they represent a wider community. Especially given the lack of realism in the Brexit rhetoric.

[Aethelwine]

29 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Be that as it may, until Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can support themselves independently from the coat tails of England's wealth any such independence talk or actuality of such notions happening are slim.

 

Northern Ireland has been left outside Brexit, with customs checks between them and the mainland under the current position. They have effectively been sacrificed against there will. Unionists are shocked and disgusted that centuries of struggle has been overriden by Conservatives unable to see further than their own constituencies, realistically their only economic choice now is to strengthen ties outside the UK in Europe. Economically Scotland has no problem outside the UK either. It is England and Wales that will struggle, especially once the impact begin to be felt on the City of London.

[Drayke Newall]

9 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

The EU were never going to roll over and give the UK what the Brexiters wanted. That is not how negotiations work, they represent a wider community. Especially given the lack of realism in the Brexit rhetoric.

True, and agree. That said, steps could have been taken for it to be an easier process and would have allowed both UK and EU to proceed without to much impact on both sides economically. As it stands now, both are possibly set to see a downturn in their economy as one finds independence again and the other looses its 2nd highest contributor to its economy.

Also, don't get me wrong, about the UK I believe independence should be sought and gained by Wales, Scotland and Ireland. I just wish those respective countries could find a method to support themselves independently without outside help so as these things can happen.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Ted McGregor]

3 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

 That is not how negotiations work, they represent a wider community.

The question to ask is which ? I'm grateful those in favour for a Brexit at least understand this is a powerhouse of a few opposing them instead of the majority of the people living in the EU.

We don't need another White House in Brussels. It was established and created by those who don't give anything about democracy or rights.

[Aethelwine]

Just now, Drayke Newall said:

True, and agree. That said, steps could have been taken for it to be an easier process and would have allowed both UK and EU to proceed without to much impact on both sides economically. As it stands now, both are possibly set to see a downturn in their economy as one finds independence again and the other looses its 2nd highest contributor to its economy.

Also, don't get me wrong, about the UK I believe independence should be sought and gained by Wales, Scotland and Ireland. I just wish those respective countries could find a method to support themselves independently so as these things can happen.

I don't see Wales leaving. I don't see a problem for Scotland and for Northern Ireland the current agreement has pretty much pushed them out anyway, their economic interests will be within the EU not outside it.

[Aethelwine]

3 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

The question to ask is which ? I'm grateful those in favour for a Brexit at least understand this is a powerhouse of a few opposing them instead of the majority of the people living in the EU.

We don't need another White House in Brussels. It was established and created by those who don't give anything about democracy or rights.

Personally I wish Uk Govts had a similar role for the TUC that the EU does for the ETUC. No system is perfect, but the UK have been on the wrong side of the debates on Workers rights for as long as I have paid any attention.

[Drayke Newall]

1 minute ago, Aethelwine said:

I don't see Wales leaving. I don't see a problem for Scotland and for Northern Ireland the current agreement has pretty much pushed them out anyway, their economic interests will be within the EU not outside it.

Sorry, I edited my post before you posted, I clarified without help from other countries. That said I do agree that they have been pushed out. Though with Northern Ireland relying so heavily on being a tax haven for companies, once laws are passed to restrict offshore tax processing from major companies like google, I would worry about how that would impact on their economy which is only just recovering.

Shame about Wales. I'm sure my grandmother would stand by you in wanting it independent.

[Ted McGregor]

7 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

Workers rights for as long as I have paid any attention.

Do come work where I work and you'll find out how much more 'rights' you get here and how much influence ETUC has there.

You'll be gravely disappointed.

Edited January 11, 2020 by TDD123
unions

[Aethelwine]

15 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Do come work where I work and you'll find out how much more 'rights' you get here and how much influence ETUC has there.

You'll be gravely disappointed.

I am far from saying workers have all the rights they should.

But I remember improvements to paid holidays, rights for part-time workers, time off for working mums and dads, equal pay for women, limits on working hours and rights to access of personal information and how these all brought improvements for UK workers. In some cases I was involved as a Trade Union Rep in getting legal advice and threatening legal action to improve the conditions  in particular for our cleaners. All these improvements came from Europe above what we had in the UK before, and all now at risk again.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Aethelwine

[Ted McGregor]

9 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

I am far from saying workers have all the rights they should.

 All these improvements came from Europe above what we had in the UK before, and all now at risk again.

Only proves to me you had it worse while everything we had as workers here was torn down. Don't get false hopes : within years the state of affairs of workers in the EU (will) have balanced to yours. Wages are no longer rising, ending contracts became easier and let's not start about the overtime and the rights to refuse it. Unions are numb and no longer effective on any level since years.

Everything we had and you consider positive, is dwindling away fast to become the very state your workers seem to be in according to you.

Edited January 11, 2020 by TDD123
again . unions

[Aethelwine]

1 minute ago, TDD123 said:

Only proves to me you had it worse while everything we had as workers here was torn down. Don't get false hopes : within years the state of affairs of workers in the EU (will) have balanced to yours. Wages are no longer rising, ending contracts became easier and let's not start about the overtime and the rights to refuse it. It's dwindling aways fast to become the very state your workers seem to be in according to you.

Without the UK to argue against improvements worker's rights you might be surprised.

[Ted McGregor]

@Aethelwine : Well .. that's capitalism at work here. Not politics.

[Theresa Tennyson]

6 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Be that as it may, until Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can support themselves independently from the coat tails of England's wealth any such independence talk or actuality of such notions happening are slim.

You might want to take a look on a map and see where the North Sea oil fields are...

[Drayke Newall]

Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:

You might want to take a look on a map and see where the North Sea oil fields are...

If they stay in the EU like they want or re-apply might want to see where that oil goes.

[Talligurl]

On January 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM, Samie Bagley said:

I am deeply disappointed with the LL's inaction toward the infusion of politics of hate in SL.

I am disappointed that so many today want to ban certain types of speech. Freedom of speech as long as I like what you are saying is not freedom of speech. The truth will prevail when all ideas are given free expression, even the one's that are horrible. 

[Mollymews]

7 hours ago, TDD123 said:

Wrong. You forgot one thing : My people ( the Dutch ) had a specific referendum ( people' vote ) explicitely  saying "NO!" to the Euro, the EU and us joining in it.

It was simply neglected and referenda have been abolished since then, because they don't want the people to have a voice.

What's NOT despotic about that ?

 

it can make things difficult when we don't know our own history, and conflate events to form a view of a history that never happened

in the Netherlands the referendum law that was abolished in 2018 was first passed in 2015. The law lasted 3 years

prior to 2015 there was never any referendum law in the Netherlands since its inception as a State. The EU ratification referendum held in 2005 was granted to the people by the then government, because it was in the government's gift to give. There was no existing law or constitutional right of the people to have a referendum. The government conducted the referendum because it thought that its people should have a direct say in the matter

what happened afterwards ?  

the Dutch referenda vote in 2005 (like the French vote a few days before) was a No against ratification of the proposed European Constitutional Treaty - a treaty which would have effectively established the United States of Europe

document here: https://europa.eu/european-union/sites/europaeu/files/docs/body/treaty_establishing_a_constitution_for_europe_en.pdf

the key clause of the document is Title III Section 2. (page 20):

"2. Under the principle of conferral, the Union shall act within the limits of the competences conferred upon it by the Member States in the Constitution to attain the objectives set out in the Constitution. Competences not conferred upon the Union in the Constitution remain with the Member States."

following the rejection of this Constitution by the French and Dutch electorate thru referendum - the idea of the United States of Europe was over

what happened next was that the european countries went back and renegotiated the then existing treaties. The two main things to come out of the re-negotiations were in 2009:

a) transfer of some authority from the Council of Ministers (a plenipotentiary body) to the European Parliament. A parliament elected by the people in direct elections by the citizens of the countries in the Union. A parliament which up until then had only been an advisory body to the Council of Ministers
b) the establishment of a formal withdrawal process from the European Union. Which there wasn't up until that time

- a thing

the biggest sticking point today for those opposed to being in the European Union, is how the law is interpreted by the Court of Justice of the European Union. The Court upholds that laws passed by the European parliament elected by the people, ratified by the Council of Ministers on behalf of their respective countries, and which are consistent with the articles of existing treaty to which the countries are party, override national laws

this sticking point has led to Britain withdrawing from the Union. Basically the British do not want to be bound by the rulings of the Court of Justice of the European Union. And so the British have now elected a government which will withdraw their country from the Union

TDD13, if this is what you want for the Netherlands also, then work toward electing a government that will do the same. Until you do this then you are pretty much yelling into the wind

[Ted McGregor]

23 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

TDD13, if this is what you want for the Netherlands also, then work toward electing a government that will do the same. Until you do this then you are pretty much yelling into the wind

If you are able to get the capatilists running my country step aside and not forge electoral outcomes to their own interests instead of that of the people, you will not find me yelling in the wind over fake democracy imposed by despots. Just because we cannot touch any of them, via THEIR court , does not mean they are right all along in passing this horrible federal state upon us, based on ideas of the 3rd Reich ( there I said it ).

I never voted for any of those seated in Brussels. Hardly anyone did in the EU. They all got there, because they concucted this system, abused the national governments to get their way and it was shoved down our throats without asking for it.  I don't care how they , or you, word it. It's individual freedom down the drain, just to get EU multnational companies cheap labour and better economic perspective, so they don't need to go and settle in 3rd world countries anymore.

Don't lecture me on laws. Seriously.

[Zephyr Starchild]

8 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I don't see how.

Looks pretty cut and dried to me. IF that is what he meant then why not just say "everyone sees things in black and white on SL" instead of making such a blatant racist statement. Neither statement is true.

 

 

Someone doesn't know what the meaning of well a joke is. Almost everyone who I've ran into their Pixels are white ( Can't be racist against Pixels darlin ) 

Also if while we are going to act super offended you need to take a GOOD HARD look at my profile.  

I am not a HE, I am not  SHE, I'm a THEY which means you've been misgendering me the whole damn time. 

But let me break it down for you since you love to act offended and talk for minorities. 

I'm a Non Binary Trans person - raises brows- who is far from straight- chuckles- and doesn't believe in Sky Daddy sending me to hell. 


Somewhere in this thread someone says the same thing I did that rarely to No body on SL uses brown Avi's. Why? Idk honestly its their choice but I'm not going to blame the 2nd life for it. Reasons people have their avi the way they do has alot to do with the 1st life. 


BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT Keep pretending you speak for a Minority cause here is how that sounds to us. 


" Hm... I know your ( Insert thing here ) but  you are tooo stupid to tell that they are making fun of you so I'm going to take care of it okay? I'm going to make sure that they stop making fun of you.  Fist bump on three 1. 2. 3. Aryan Power!"  Also just incase you don't get where the joke came from  Joke is written and performed by Brad Williams who is a Litter person  who has this ***** happen to him all the time. 


We don't need for  you to scream about limiting language on SL Msg that sends us is that we our prescence makes YOU uncomfortable and rather than deal with the biggots you would rather throw a blanket over it and pretend that the world isn't racist or homophobic or transphobic and its all lolipops and rainbows wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll





ITS NOT. 

[Seicher Rae]

I love me some Sam and Dean...

Edited January 11, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Selene Gregoire]

20 minutes ago, SeikariTheMierianShadow said:

Someone doesn't know what the meaning of well a joke is. Almost everyone who I've ran into their Pixels are white ( Can't be racist against Pixels darlin ) 

Also if while we are going to act super offended you need to take a GOOD HARD look at my profile.  

I am not a HE, I am not  SHE, I'm a THEY which means you've been misgendering me the whole damn time. 

But let me break it down for you since you love to act offended and talk for minorities. 

I'm a Non Binary Trans person - raises brows- who is far from straight- chuckles- and doesn't believe in Sky Daddy sending me to hell. 


Somewhere in this thread someone says the same thing I did that rarely to No body on SL uses brown Avi's. Why? Idk honestly its their choice but I'm not going to blame the 2nd life for it. Reasons people have their avi the way they do has alot to do with the 1st life. 


BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT Keep pretending you speak for a Minority cause here is how that sounds to us. 


" Hm... I know your ( Insert thing here ) but  you are tooo stupid to tell that they are making fun of you so I'm going to take care of it okay? I'm going to make sure that they stop making fun of you.  Fist bump on three 1. 2. 3. Aryan Power!"  Also just incase you don't get where the joke came from  Joke is written and performed by Brad Williams who is a Litter person  who has this ***** happen to him all the time. 


We don't need for  you to scream about limiting language on SL Msg that sends us is that we our prescence makes YOU uncomfortable and rather than deal with the biggots you would rather throw a blanket over it and pretend that the world isn't racist or homophobic or transphobic and its all lolipops and rainbows wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll





ITS NOT. 

It did not appear to be a joke to me.

I haven't logged in world in a while due to my health so I can't see your profile. I don't use the web profiles.

It was not intentional. My apologies.

My avatar is not white and never has been white in 16 years. Nor am I white in RL. I am Lakota.

I speak AS a minority because I am one. In more ways the one, being neither white nor male.

Never heard of Brad Williams and frankly don't care.

I never said one word stating I want to limit language on SL.

I have to deal with racists and bigots in RL on a daily basis, have done so for 60 years and will have to do so for the rest of my life.

Next.