When Did it Become Acceptable to Bring Politic of Hate into SL?

[Mahala Roviana]

Personally, I don't mind when racist bigots proudly display their propaganda and hate speech. Their actions make them easily identifiable to me and makes it much easier to decide who I want to spend my time with. Also, it makes them easy targets when, on occasion, I'm feeling particularly bitchy and feel the need to take it out on someone.

[Storm Clarence]

2 hours ago, SeikariTheMierianShadow said:

 

 

Someone doesn't know what the meaning of well a joke is. Almost everyone who I've ran into their Pixels are white ( Can't be racist against Pixels darlin ) 

Also if while we are going to act super offended you need to take a GOOD HARD look at my profile.  

I am not a HE, I am not  SHE, I'm a THEY which means you've been misgendering me the whole damn time. 

But let me break it down for you since you love to act offended and talk for minorities. 

I'm a Non Binary Trans person - raises brows- who is far from straight- chuckles- and doesn't believe in Sky Daddy sending me to hell. 


Somewhere in this thread someone says the same thing I did that rarely to No body on SL uses brown Avi's. Why? Idk honestly its their choice but I'm not going to blame the 2nd life for it. Reasons people have their avi the way they do has alot to do with the 1st life. 

.......

 

Well, I, for one, thought this post was a joke.   Actually, I had a very hardy laugh.  Thank you.

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Storm Clarence

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, TDD123 said:

If you are able to get the capatilists running my country step aside and not forge electoral outcomes to their own interests instead of that of the people, you will not find me yelling in the wind over fake democracy imposed by despots. Just because we cannot touch any of them, via THEIR court , does not mean they are right all along in passing this horrible federal state upon us, based on ideas of the 3rd Reich ( there I said it ).

I never voted for any of those seated in Brussels. Hardly anyone did in the EU. They all got there, because they concucted this system, abused the national governments to get their way and it was shoved down our throats without asking for it.  I don't care how they , or you, word it. It's individual freedom down the drain, just to get EU multnational companies cheap labour and better economic perspective, so they don't need to go and settle in 3rd world countries anymore.

Don't lecture me on laws. Seriously.

i get the feeling behind what you have said here, and feelings caused by the outcome of the free trade movement on significant sections of the population in what were once relatively wealthy areas of Europe

a thing that you can take some comfort from your perspective on this, is that when you said No to an even tighter binding in 2005, you were heard by 'them the they'. That No resulted in the establishment of a peaceful process where you can leave should, as country, you choose to do so.  Britain can peacefully leave today because you, the Dutch and French people, said No back in 2005

[Ted McGregor]

17 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

Britain can peacefully leave today because you, the Dutch and French people, said No back in 2005

Perhaps. It remains to be seen when the Brexit is completed. It will be observed and followed if succesful. Undoubtedly.

[Mollymews]

2 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Perhaps. It remains to be seen when the Brexit is completed. It will be observed and followed if succesful. Undoubtedly.

what the outcome will be exactly we dunno.  Just have wait and see. Even tho I personally disagree with Britain doing this, now that the choice has been made then I don't want it to go badly for the British people, or badly for the people remaining in the EU

 

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, SeikariTheMierianShadow said:

I am not a HE, I am not  SHE, I'm a THEY which means you've been misgendering me the whole damn time. 
I'm a Non Binary Trans person - raises brows- who is far from straight

if you present yourself as female you shouldn't be surprised people refer to you as "she"

Till my last breath i will REFUSE to refer to someone as THEY.

[edit.. removed few words, to rigid statement]

Edited January 11, 2020 by Alwin Alcott

[Madelaine McMasters]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

Till my last breath i will REFUSE to refer to someone as THEY.

If Snugs and I get into an argument, how will you refer to us?

[Wulfie Reanimator]

Just now, Madelaine McMasters said:

If Snugs and I get into an argument, how will you refer to us?

"Those two." /s

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If Snugs and I get into an argument, how will you refer to us?

Snuggs and Maddy ..
the nice one and the pyromaniac ?

[Ceka Cianci]

40 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If Snugs and I get into an argument, how will you refer to us?

Y'all.

Y'all just settle down now,ya hear?

hehehe

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Scylla Rhiadra]

50 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Till my last breath i will REFUSE to refer to someone as THEY.

For real, Alwin?

I'm genuinely saddened to hear you say so. You've shown some generosity here in the past: I'd have thought it would also extend to those who ask for nothing more than an acknowledgement of who they are, and how they wish to identify.

It doesn't seem so very much to ask, does it?

[Selene Gregoire]

42 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

For real, Alwin?

I'm genuinely saddened to hear you say so. You've shown some generosity here in the past: I'd have thought it would also extend to those who ask for nothing more than an acknowledgement of who they are, and how they wish to identify.

It doesn't seem so very much to ask, does it?

Personally, I do my best to use people's preferred pronouns out of respect for them as human beings. Being human myself, I sometimes forget or simply make a mistake. 

What bothers me is when someone who doesn't know me or really know anything about me, bites my head off for making a mistake. Hell I even went back and edited my post twice to fix it this morning. Next time someone bites my head for a simple mistake I may not bother.

There isn't a whole lot of difference in the letters in he, she and they. All it takes is one or two keys not depressing all the way and you have a typo. I don't see that as something worth getting all bent out of shape over. Just say "hey, I prefer <insert appropriate pronoun here>, please correct it" and consider it done if the time limit on edit hasn't expired when I see it and I'll apologize for my mistake as I have done twice.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Selene Gregoire
left out I'll (apologize)

[Ted McGregor]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It doesn't seem so very much to ask, does it?

OK I'll bite.

You are asking him or imposing a bill on him ?

[Qie Niangao]

If religion and politics didn't kill the thread, let's try PRONOUN PREFERENCES. That's always worked before!

But just in case it's worth saving, before anybody gets all high and mighty one way or another about pronouns, they should be REQUIRED to listen to this entire episode of Lexicon Valley about the simplification of English pronouns over the centuries. (That's not a punishment; it's kinda fascinating.)

[Ted McGregor]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

they should be REQUIRED to listen to this entire episode of Lexicon Valley

I listened.

Still can't figure out who sound more drunk : ye olde English or the current day speaking ones.

you .. you .. or .. You .. same sound .. yeah ok

Edited January 12, 2020 by TDD123

[Zephyr Starchild]

8 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

It did not appear to be a joke to me.

I haven't logged in world in a while due to my health so I can't see your profile. I don't use the web profiles.

It was not intentional. My apologies.

My avatar is not white and never has been white in 16 years. Nor am I white in RL. I am Lakota.

I speak AS a minority because I am one. In more ways the one, being neither white nor male.

Never heard of Brad Williams and frankly don't care.

I never said one word stating I want to limit language on SL.

I have to deal with racists and bigots in RL on a daily basis, have done so for 60 years and will have to do so for the rest of my life.

Next.

Then why are you even picking my posts apart calling me of all people a racist and commenting at all the topic at hand  that is about is limiting language on SL and banning certain topics. SL is not RL at all two are different. 


Seems friend you need to know when to tell the difference. 

Also I am also speaking as a Minority that when folks try to limit what can be talked about on secondlife and make topics like this that complain that is how it sounds like to us 


ALSO Brad Williams is a Comedian who has a disability as a little person but the joke does count for so many reasons its basically this 


you are _____________ and you are too stupid to know that _______________ is making fun of you so I'm going to take care of it because as a _______________ Insert privilege here I Know more than you do when something is offensive to you. 

Banning political talk doesn't help those of us who are Minorities it hurts us. It hides the thing that needs to be fixed. It gives those people that both of us will have to deal with forever and a day a means to hide and I don't think that is a good idea. 

SL is SL you don't like something on someone's card you can block them and or leave the club/shop/store/sim/ whatever Nothing on this computer should effect your RL and if it does that is Your problem.  Means something inside of you is allowing something on the internet to hurt you and you need to figure that out. Its not on SL or Linden labs to do so. 

In my view unless it is a Pick calling for the death of POC and or LBTGQIA+ folks or of Women then it should be allowed and getting upset that Linden Labs won't do ***** about it is well stupid.

Even if its about how "Awesome" Trump is. Life is too goddamned short to be pissed off over a pick on a virtual chat site and this is me saying this after all the ***** he's done to Trans folk 

So yes now we are done because honestly this is getting rather tedious. 

I would rather have SL be a place where one can say whatever the hell they want and allow us the users to decide what should happen rather than have a company decide what we can talk about and get banned or censored for talking about it ( good example is Youtube. ) 

[Seicher Rae]

Some people are way more patient than I am. Just sayin'. And I think this deserves revisiting...

 

[Tolya Ugajin]

7 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If Snugs and I get into an argument, how will you refer to us?

"y'all"

[Seicher Rae]

I subscribe to a Dutch magazine, called SAAR, which was referred to me by a SL Dutch friend. I don't speak or read Dutch. Untranslated I can pick out a word here and there. I will run it through Google Translate and I will get something that I can sometimes, but not always, follow. Translators are getting better, but they are still pretty wonky. It also wasn't that long ago I tried to make a joke to someone in Dutch by using the translator, and it turns out I said something rather horrible to my Dutch friend. These examples just happen to be Dutch<-->English. They could be about any other language. If you think you are making sense by using something like Google translate for more than one or two words, you're going to be sadly mistaken.

I don't know if that is what is involved in some of this thread or not. I'm usually pretty good at picking through things, but I could only make out one of thirty sentences in some of these. I am in awe of anyone who can speak two languages, but there needs to be some self-awareness on limitations. Just sayin.

As to pronouns: 

1. Universal pronoun has defaulted to "dude" in American English
2. People get offended if you walk up to them and ask them their pronoun preference. I know I would be (mildly, but still).
3. Most people (I think, totally don't have the science) don't wish to insult anyone and do the best they can with the information they have. If a mistake is made, assume innocence, correct the mistake and don't have a hissy fit.
4. If you are told by someone that they have a preference, what's the big deal about using it?
5. If someone slips up, there shouldn't be hissy fits.

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Tolya Ugajin]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

For real, Alwin?

I'm genuinely saddened to hear you say so. You've shown some generosity here in the past: I'd have thought it would also extend to those who ask for nothing more than an acknowledgement of who they are, and how they wish to identify.

It doesn't seem so very much to ask, does it?

That depends on how many different people demand their own sets of pronouns, and how they react when you inadvertently use the wrong one.  I have a hard enough time remembering names in RL.  If I knew 10 different people with 5 different preferred sets of pronouns, it becomes a bit much.  And if someone who looks like a guy and sounds like a guy and has a 5 o'clock shadow at 1:00 PM goes off on me because the first time I meet that person my psychic powers fail me and I call that person "sir" and (insert that person's pronoun here) goes off total diva (insert word for female dog here) on me, it's not going to go well.

My soon to be stepson was born female and is beginning to transition, and if you met him on the street you'd assume he was a fairly small guy.  His own family occasionally screws up and refers to him as "she" because, well, they've know "him" as "her" since he was born.  He doesn't bat an eye, they may correct themselves or apologize or just move on, no drama at all.  Of course, he's Canadian, and Canadians don't get all self righteously offended at inadvertent mistakes.  Just another reason I prefer the company of Canadians in general to that of my fellow Americans.

I also understand Alwin's point of view.  "They" is plural.  Those of us with stern taskmasters/taskmistresses for English classes growing up were strongly conditioned not to use "they" to refer to a single person.   Demanding to be called "they" isn't quite the same as asking to be called "he or she".

We should come up with a new, completely non-gendered set of pronouns.  Rather than "sir" or "ma'am" or whatever, everyone is "bub", for instance.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, SeikariTheMierianShadow said:

Then why are you even picking my posts apart calling me of all people a racist and commenting at all the topic at hand  that is about is limiting language on SL and banning certain topics. SL is not RL at all two are different. 

Seems friend you need to know when to tell the difference. 

Also I am also speaking as a Minority that when folks try to limit what can be talked about on secondlife and make topics like this that complain that is how it sounds like to us 

ALSO Brad Williams is a Comedian who has a disability as a little person but the joke does count for so many reasons its basically this 

you are _____________ and you are too stupid to know that _______________ is making fun of you so I'm going to take care of it because as a _______________ Insert privilege here I Know more than you do when something is offensive to you. 

Banning political talk doesn't help those of us who are Minorities it hurts us. It hides the thing that needs to be fixed. It gives those people that both of us will have to deal with forever and a day a means to hide and I don't think that is a good idea. 

SL is SL you don't like something on someone's card you can block them and or leave the club/shop/store/sim/ whatever Nothing on this computer should effect your RL and if it does that is Your problem.  Means something inside of you is allowing something on the internet to hurt you and you need to figure that out. Its not on SL or Linden labs to do so. 

In my view unless it is a Pick calling for the death of POC and or LBTGQIA+ folks or of Women then it should be allowed and getting upset that Linden Labs won't do ***** about it is well stupid.

Even if its about how "Awesome" Trump is. Life is too goddamned short to be pissed off over a pick on a virtual chat site and this is me saying this after all the ***** he's done to Trans folk 

So yes now we are done because honestly this is getting rather tedious. 

I would rather have SL be a place where one can say whatever the hell they want and allow us the users to decide what should happen rather than have a company decide what we can talk about and get banned or censored for talking about it ( good example is Youtube. ) 

I never called you a racist. I said you made what appeared to me to be a racist comment. That is not the same thing as me flat out calling you a racist.

Again, I never said speech on SL should be limited. Find where I said it should be and quote me.

I don't care who Brad Williams is. I don't keep up with celebrities. 

I never said political discussions should be banned from SL.

I've been in SL for 16 years. I know how to use the features we begged LL for many years ago.

I've not said one word about picks. I don't know who or where you got that from.

assTrumpet can kiss my rosey red ass.

Then stop trying to shut me up when I am not guilty of the things you are accusing me. Screaming about freedom of speech and then trying to shut someone else up makes you a hypocrite.

You can bet your sweet bippy we are done.

Nice way to accept a sincere apology. I won't forget. 

Have a nice life.

 

ETA: I am a POC in case you didn't bother to actually read my post and just skimmed it. To be precise I am Oglala Lakota and proud of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oglala

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Selene Gregoire
typo

[Zephyr Starchild]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I never called you a racist. I said you made what appeared to me to be a racist comment. That is not the same thing as me flat out calling you a racist.

Again, I never said speech on Sl should be limited. Find where I said it should be and quote me.

I don't care who Brad Williams is. I don't keep up with celebrities. 

I never said political discussions should be banned from SL.

I've been in SL for 16 years. I know how to use the features we begged LL for many years ago.

I've not said one word about picks. I don't know who or where you got that from.

assTrumpet can kiss my rosey red ass.

Then stop trying to shut me up when I am not guilty of the things you are accusing me. Screaming about freedom of speech and then trying to shut someone else up makes you a hypocrite.

You can bet your sweet bippy we are done.

Nice way to accept a sincere apology. I won't forget. 

Have a nice life.

Um... Yeah you did tho XD and apparently we aren't cause you are still keeping this going and going and going like the energizer bunny on meth.  Also the OP basically made this topic on the suggestion that yes SL should limit speech in world. Seems to me Friend you need to go and do your homework but we both know you won't so you keep this thing going and going and trying to gaslight which is the norm when someone is caught.  


Also Pointing out you are wrong isn't shutting anyone down its how freedom of speech kinda works. 



Also fact your getting offended proves it wasn't sincere and honestly if you wanted to end this you wouldn't even bother to reply only reason I am is cause you are trying to make yourself out as a victim and well.... your not. No one in this conversation is a victim either ( While I am finding it entertaining the talk about pronouns in here. ) Also I know my In world Profile is view able outside of in world but - holds up a hand- that isnot here nor there. What your upset about is you thought that I was just someone who fit the norm that you thought it would be wise to take a jab at and you didn't count on being wrong and now you are wrong so now your getting mad and that friend is cool.  But Obviously you were the only one offended by the comment of " Everyone in SL is white" Refering to the fact that many POC use White Avi's just like many people like me use Femboi and Male avi's on occasion but - shrugs- that is not my issue nor is it on me to do the labor to explain it to you. 


you phrased what you said to make it sound like I was racist which was calling me so and now your upset that its pretty obvious I am not. 

So Yes we are done I'm not replying to anymore of your replies. Cause again this is tedious and unlike the energizer bunny I can't keep going and going like a hooker strung out on Meth. 


Have a good night.  :3 

 

[Drayke Newall]

6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

If religion and politics didn't kill the thread, let's try PRONOUN PREFERENCES. That's always worked before!

But just in case it's worth saving, before anybody gets all high and mighty one way or another about pronouns, they should be REQUIRED to listen to this entire episode of Lexicon Valley about the simplification of English pronouns over the centuries. (That's not a punishment; it's kinda fascinating.)

The conversion or as you imply it 'simplification' over time of English is indeed fascinating especially relating to the written styles as it evolved. That said, the implication in the episode you linked that English no longer uses gender as part of its spoken or written language is not the case at all. The masculine gender and feminine gender are still there, however, in many cases we removed the awkwardness and the convolution of the language and simply made 'the' to encompass both genders of he and she. This is why we simply say 'the woman' or 'the man' as opposed to German (for comparison as it is easier to show than old English) whereby they would say 'der Mann' or 'die Frau'. Both ways mean the same, however 'the' in English is the simplification of the gender pronoun into a single all encompassing word.

Whilst 'the' become all encompassing, we still do very much so use the gender neuter 'it' to imply an object that specifically doesn't have a gender in itself or in other special situations where it does. This is why we would call a chair 'it' and in all technicalities is why a dog is also 'it' even though usually we would just say 'the dog' with the being all encompassing or refer to its specific gender (notice I used its and not their in relation to the dog). To further show this and how gender is still used in modern English there are unique examples where the gender follows a different path. For instance it is never correct to refer to a ship or machine (both not having a gender) as 'it' despite them both being an object. You would say "she's a beautiful ship" not "its a beautiful ship" this implies that, whilst in some cases has been simplified for the better, gender itself is still very much alive in modern English.

As to current trends in wanting gender neutrality. This is not the same as gender in English or Old English at all. That is to say, gender neuter (or the feminine and masculine genders in language) does not mean gender neutral even though they are often confused and used by those wanting gender neutrality as evidence to support their cause. Both are distinct and separate areas entirely not related to each other just like in other languages such as German.

That is to say, whilst in Old English generally words referencing a female would have the female gender imposed on them, there were also vast swathes of words that didn't despite being related to female and this is the same with modern languages that still use gender in the language such as German. To show this, as an example, in old English the word 'hiredwifmon' which means a female member of a household is masculine and therefore would adopt in Old English the masculine gender pronoun and not the feminine. Likewise the word for woman 'wifmann' was in fact a gender neuter meaning it had no gender associated. This is the same in German where it would be 'das weib' and not the feminine 'die weib'. To put it another way using German as an example, 'der hund' meaning 'the dog' uses the masculine pronoun even when referencing a female dog.

Tl:dr:

Gender in English ≠ gender neutrality and for those wishing for gender neutrality pronouns, English already has one 'the' so why make up more. English is already one of the most complicated languages adopting words from almost every language back to the B.C. era so why are we trying to make it even more complicated by finding new pronouns that isn't just one new word but all their related connotations such as when referencing them in past, present and future etc.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Ted McGregor]

 

[Beth Macbain]

OMFG.