Mesh Head vs. System

[Ajay McDowwll]

Okay, I'm still working on this whole mesh head thing.  I finally gave up on my Lelutka head, because I was having a dickens of a time trying to make her look a bit less ticked off, and went with the Genus classic.  I've been tweaking the sliders since about 1 AM SLT (4 AM my time, because my very RL puppies were yapping their heads off -- they're napping now, naturally, four hours later), and the attached is where I currently am.  I took a screenshot with a picture of my system head in it. 

I still prefer my system head?  I mean, the mesh head looks okay, but it's still not "me".  Is this just something we adapt to, or can anyone find some settings/ parameters I should look into tweaking to make me look more like "me"?

Suggestions/ comments are more than welcome.  I'm just glad I managed to work out the whole appliers thing.

[Skell Dagger]

I've never worked with Genus, so I have no idea how responsive it is to the sliders, but my suggestions would be as follows:

• increase the lip cleft depth, then reduce the lip width a bit (to get the deeper, narrower cupid's bow)
• increase the mouth corner a little (although the slight smile should also be achievable by using the head's built-in animations)

Your system eyes are much wider than the Genus eyes. You can try tweaking Eye Size and Eye Opening just a little, but - as before - I'm not sure how Genus responds to those settings.

You may also be seeing differences that are not there - especially around the nose - due to the fact that in your system head image you're wearing a bright facelight, which will change how the shadows around your nose work. When taking your reference snapshot and working on the mesh head shape it's preferable to use a neutral, bright Windlight setting so that shadows don't affect how you perceive each look. If you're using Firestorm, scroll down the Windlight list in the Quick Prefs menu, look for the [TOR] presets near the bottom, then scroll up a bit to find [NB] Alpine Skinlight RGB (quick video of where it is). That's the one I always use, and it's great for shape-making and skin-matching.

Assuming that Genus is now Bakes on Mesh compatible (most major brands now are) then you could use that option to put your old system skin onto the mesh head. It might look good or it might not (skins mapped to the system head won't always map perfectly to the 3D shape of a mesh head, so things like lipline and eye creases may not sit correctly on the mesh) but it might help you feel more like yourself with a mesh head.

I would also shorten your neck considerably, as it's incredibly long with the mesh head look. Quite often with mesh heads you need to make what seem like very odd adjustments in order for them to look right (and if you take off the head and alpha once your shape is finalised you'll probably laugh at what your system head looks like underneath it!)

Lastly, one thing I always say about updating to a mesh head while trying to keep as much of your old system look as possible is this:

Quote

While you won't be able to replicate your system face exactly it might be possible to replicate it close enough that it will pass your own critical inspection. Just how close you'll be able to get depends on a number of factors, not least of which is what your system head actually looks like. If you have specific features that cannot be replicated by a mesh head, then you may get close but not quite close enough for your liking. Only you can decide whether that's worth the work, but it is worth a try.

I look at moving from a system head to a mesh head as akin to growing older in real life. My reflection in the bathroom mirror these days isn't the same as it was back when I was 20. I've matured, and - while my general features are still recogniseable - I don't look the same. In turn, Skell has just evolved and grown older in Second Life. I now use mesh heads of all brands and shapes as fashion accessories, and change my look all the time.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Skell Dagger

[Ajay McDowwll]

Thank you so much, Skell -- this is all fantastic.  I'm going to drink another jeroboam of coffee and get to work with the sliders again.  Also, good call on the neck.  I can't believe I missed that, but I look quite like a giraffe.

A special thanks on the mouth -- I would like it to be a bit more of a cupid's bow.  The uptilt at the corners is a no-go as far as I can tell -- the Genus head doesn't have a lot of response in that area.

[Ajay McDowwll]

Okay, here's the latest iteration.  I think I need to shorten my neck a little more, now that I see it in a static print rather than dynamic.  But it's getting closer

Also, Skell, what you said about the mesh heads being a bit like aging is spot-on.  Even when we do things with our faces RL to help alter the aging process (I totally admit to fillers and botox), the effects of aging are still there.  We can direct them somewhat, but they're not possible to erase.

[Skell Dagger]

That's looking much closer! I'd just recommend reducing the lip ratio for a bit less lower lip (the mesh lower lip is quite deep and rounded, whereas your system lower lip is thinner and smoother). You can also edit your system hairbase, go into the eyebrows tab, and play around with the settings in there to see if you can lift up the downward curve of the outer brow just a little and bring the inner corner down a tad. Certain brow sliders in the system hairbase will also change the eyes on a mesh head ever so slightly, so those are an additional way to change your eyes.

All you need to do after that - assuming the system look always had the same makeup - is to find a darker lip applier and some eye makeup with a strong under-eye shadow, and you'll be as close as you can get to your old system look. (Oh, and yes, reduce the neck length a bit more )

Great job!

[Ajay McDowwll]

1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

That's looking much closer! I'd just recommend reducing the lip ratio for a bit less lower lip (the mesh lower lip is quite deep and rounded, whereas your system lower lip is thinner and smoother). You can also edit your system hairbase, go into the eyebrows tab, and play around with the settings in there to see if you can lift up the downward curve of the outer brow just a little and bring the inner corner down a tad. Certain brow sliders in the system hairbase will also change the eyes on a mesh head ever so slightly, so those are an additional way to change your eyes.

All you need to do after that - assuming the system look always had the same makeup - is to find a darker lip applier and some eye makeup with a strong under-eye shadow, and you'll be as close as you can get to your old system look. (Oh, and yes, reduce the neck length a bit more )

Great job!

Okay, final edits are up, along with different hair since that particular one wasn't playing nicely with the mesh head (and looked a bit like a helmet):

I just need to find some eye makeup that matches my former look, or adapt to a bit more natural face   Thank you, Skell!

Signed,

Ajay, who is no longer a giraffe

[Skell Dagger]

You're very welcome.

[BelindaN]

That's a great job. Never easy but you've got very close. @Ajay McDowwll

Well done!

[Nalates Urriah]

6 hours ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

Okay, final edits are up, along with different hair since that particular one wasn't playing nicely with the mesh head (and looked a bit like a helmet):

I just need to find some eye makeup that matches my former look, or adapt to a bit more natural face   Thank you, Skell!

Signed,

Ajay, who is no longer a giraffe

You have done amazingly well replicating your Classic look.

When I started trying to replicate my classic look with mesh heads I spent a lot of time trying to get my look with my first pick, finally giving up moving to another and trying again. I went through 3 or 4 heads before realizing not all heads can be adjusted to a particular look. Then I went through a dozen plus heads trying to find something close to my classic look. Finally found something I could adjust to the look I wanted.

So... you did it well and quickly.

[Ajay McDowwll]

14 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

You have done amazingly well replicating your Classic look.

When I started trying to replicate my classic look with mesh heads I spent a lot of time trying to get my look with my first pick, finally giving up moving to another and trying again. I went through 3 or 4 heads before realizing not all heads can be adjusted to a particular look. Then I went through a dozen plus heads trying to find something close to my classic look. Finally found something I could adjust to the look I wanted.

So... you did it well and quickly.

Thank you   Although I will say that the "quickly" is a bit subjective.  I've spent the past few weekends working on this with at least five Lelutka demo heads, an actual purchased Lelutka head (Greer), and finally decided to go with Genus instead... so there was definitely a lot of practice going into this last effort.

[Ajay McDowwll]

14 hours ago, BelindaN said:

That's a great job. Never easy but you've got very close. @Ajay McDowwll

Well done!

Thank you!

[Pussycat Catnap]

This actually makes me understand some of the popularity of the Genus brand - I've never seen any mesh head that was able to look like it was "nothing more than a higher rez version of the system head with some flaws removed" before this.

Mayreal comes close - but not this close.

You've achieved an amazingly good reproduction of your old look, but with some of the 'low-polygon flaws' removed.

 

[Ajay McDowwll]

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

This actually makes me understand some of the popularity of the Genus brand - I've never seen any mesh head that was able to look like it was "nothing more than a higher rez version of the system head with some flaws removed" before this.

Mayreal comes close - but not this close.

You've achieved an amazingly good reproduction of your old look, but with some of the 'low-polygon flaws' removed.

Thanks   This is the result of endless demo heads, and much poor language on my part.  Fortunately my offspring are relatively ancient, so they weren't scarred for life.

Now my husband has entered the World of Mesh Heads, and we've entered another round of headbanging, in part because he hopes I know everything since I managed to get my head worked out.  Sadly, the differences in HUDs between Genus and Catwa are pretty high so I've not been as much help as he'd hoped... but he's bright; he'll get it

[Maitimo]

On 10/26/2019 at 3:47 PM, Ajay McDowwll said:

Okay, final edits are up, along with different hair since that particular one wasn't playing nicely with the mesh head (and looked a bit like a helmet):

I just need to find some eye makeup that matches my former look, or adapt to a bit more natural face   Thank you, Skell!

Signed,

Ajay, who is no longer a giraffe

You've done a great job here. That looks great!

[Skell Dagger]

7 hours ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

Now my husband has entered the World of Mesh Heads, and we've entered another round of headbanging, in part because he hopes I know everything since I managed to get my head worked out.  Sadly, the differences in HUDs between Genus and Catwa are pretty high so I've not been as much help as he'd hoped... but he's bright; he'll get it

If he needs any guidance, advice, or tips then I can help him with that. I'm a CSR for Catwa Assuming that he's bought one of her Bento heads (Daniel, Stanley, Shaheen, Dino, Victor, Skell, Dude, or Gac) then get him to have a read of my Beginners' Guide to Catwa Bento Heads to begin with, and I can then help him with any other queries he has.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Skell Dagger

[Ajay McDowwll]

1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

If he needs any guidance, advice, or tips then I can help him with that. I'm a CSR for Catwa Assuming that he's bought one of her Bento heads (Daniel, Stanley, Shaheen, Dino, Victor, Skell, Dude, or Gac) then get him to have a read of my Beginners' Guide to Catwa Bento Heads to begin with, and I can then help him with any other queries he has.

He did -- he got the Daniel   I actually sent him that link yesterday -- I found your blog sometime last week and it's been an absolute goldmine of helpful information.  Thank you for taking all that time to do it!  I will also point him in your direction; he's off work today, so he may be tweaking his avatar obsessively. 

Erm... not that I'd do that myself.  Nope!   Not me...

[FairreLilette]

Wow!  You look amazing!  

[Maitimo]

21 hours ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

He did -- he got the Daniel   I actually sent him that link yesterday -- I found your blog sometime last week and it's been an absolute goldmine of helpful information.  Thank you for taking all that time to do it!  I will also point him in your direction; he's off work today, so he may be tweaking his avatar obsessively. 

Erm... not that I'd do that myself.  Nope!   Not me...

I hope you will post pics of him too, when he's happy with his makeover.

[Lindal Kidd]

"headbanging"...hahahaha! 😂

You managed to switch to a mesh head and still look like "yourself"...well done indeed!

And, you look great in both versions.

[Ajay McDowwll]

58 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

I hope you will post pics of him too, when he's happy with his makeover.

I will   He's still grousing about himself, and last night he was randomly standing in the family room in SL while glaring at Blender tutorials in RL (he doesn't like the hairbase options available for his mesh head -- he had just found one he liked that was a hairbase-type for his system avatar after over 12 years inworld, so he figures he'll make his own), so I think it will be a bit, but he's made good progress!

36 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

"headbanging"...hahahaha! 😂

You managed to switch to a mesh head and still look like "yourself"...well done indeed!

And, you look great in both versions.

Thank you!  That whole looking like "myself" thing was pretty vital for me feeling okay making the switch, and thanks to Skell's suggestions and lots of slider tweaks, it worked out

[Maitimo]

32 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

I will   He's still grousing about himself, and last night he was randomly standing in the family room in SL while glaring at Blender tutorials in RL (he doesn't like the hairbase options available for his mesh head -- he had just found one he liked that was a hairbase-type for his system avatar after over 12 years inworld, so he figures he'll make his own), so I think it will be a bit, but he's made good progress!

Hairbases are just textures, not mesh, so he won't need Blender to make one. Photoshop or Gimp, or some other texture editor.

Or he could just get a bakes-on-mesh installer for his head, and use the system one.

Unless you mean actual mesh hair? In which case it should already fit the mesh head just fine.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Matty Luminos

[Ajay McDowwll]

He's considering real hair; hence Blender.

I'll recommend the BOM option; although at this point that may be more than either of us could manage.  We're both still baffled by it, despite reading and watching multiple tutorials.  I have faith we'll eventually figure it out (it's not rocket science), but there's something that's not clicking for us yet.

We're both a bit impatient with ourselves when it comes to being able to modify our avatars.  We need to work on that

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

 he doesn't like the hairbase options available for his mesh head

perhaps have a look at Not Found or 'l Etre, those hairbases are for sure workin on Daniel. ( and there are many other creators)
Dura has (or had? been so long i been there) also a afforable pack, but those are/were quite basic and best working for full hairpieces

Edited October 29, 2019 by Alwin Alcott

[Ajay McDowwll]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

perhaps have a look at Not Found or 'l Etre, those hairbases are for sure workin on Daniel. ( and there are many other creators)
Dura has (or had? been so long i been there) also a afforable pack, but those are/were quite basic and best working for full hairpieces

Thank you for the suggestion -- I'll have a look myself in the Marketplace and mention it to him when we get home

[Alwin Alcott]

26 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

Thank you for the suggestion -- I'll have a look myself in the Marketplace and mention it to him when we get home

possibly those are only available inworld