When you buy add-ons, do you need scripted ones?

[Marianne Little]

I am working on my mesh walls so they don't look too awful, and have the first exterior wall set almost there.

Scripts and me are not friends. Maybe it is because English isn't my #1 language. Anyway, my eyes gloss over and I could as well read instructions in Arabic.

What do you demand of your add-ons and such?

Must it have:

Rez box.

Scripted texture change.

 - and I assume it is important to set script to owner only and/or group, so no others can change it?

Blue pop-up screen.

- or HUD that attach to screen with images on, let us say different panel walls.

I have tried 3 different texture changers from the MP, and I am horrible with it. Even if the come with a NC in technical English, a short instruction, or no instructions.

Maybe I can make this one work:http://www.aliciastella.com/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=24

but I can't figure it out, if it's possible to change between owner/group. How important is that?

Edit: The walls go all around, and have no visible seams. They have a transparent inside. 6 LI.

Edit 2: They hold shape and show correct texture 175 m away on LOD 1 in Firestorm.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Marianne Little

[Wulfie Reanimator]

Personally I feel like scripted functionality is a weird cludge a lot of people use only because they're too paranoid to make their product modifiable.

That, or they think there's an expectation of scripts by the user because the user doesn't know how to edit objects manually.

[PrudenceAnton]

3 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I am working on my mesh walls so they don't look too awful, and have the first exterior wall set almost there.

Scripts and me are not friends. Maybe it is because English isn't my #1 language. Anyway, my eyes gloss over and I could as well read instructions in Arabic.

What do you demand of your add-ons and such?

Must it have:

Rez box.

Scripted texture change.

 - and I assume it is important to set script to owner only and/or group, so no others can change it?

Blue pop-up screen.

- or HUD that attach to screen with images on, let us say different panel walls.

I have tried 3 different texture changers from the MP, and I am horrible with it. Even if the come with a NC in technical English, a short instruction, or no instructions.

Maybe I can make this one work:http://www.aliciastella.com/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=24

but I can't figure it out, if it's possible to change between owner/group. How important is that?

 

 

 

Only owner needs to have controls to change the wall textures.  If you are struggling with figuring the scripts out, there are two solutions. Either use no scripts and make multiple copies, each with a different texture on it.  You can use a prim block as the anchor and line it up in the corner by the front door, so those who purchase it can easily line the wall lay overs on top of the building's walls. Another thing you can do, if scripts are not your strong suit, you can either join an SL scripters group or ask for help in the forums on how to understand your scripts and get them working.

[Marianne Little]

Just now, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Personally I feel like scripted functionality is a weird cludge a lot of people use only because they're too paranoid to make their product modifiable.

That, or they think there's an expectation of scripts by the user because the user doesn't know how to edit objects manually.

Yes, but can people texture these days?

Will they be willing to do it if the price is low?

[PrudenceAnton]

3 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Yes, but can people texture these days?

Will they be willing to do it if the price is low?

Yes, many people can figure out the basic texturing if you want to just include your textures in the pack (copy/mod/no transfer) and they can apply them through using edit linked parts. You can always give a brief explanation how to do this.  Most people love to be able to modify their items if given an option.

Edited August 10, 2019 by PrudenceAnton

[Marianne Little]

1 minute ago, PrudenceAnton said:

Only owner needs to have controls to change the wall textures.  If you are struggling with figuring the scripts out, there are two solutions. Either use no scripts and make multiple copies, each with a different texture on it.  You can use a prim block as the anchor and line it up in the corner by the front door, so those who purchase it can easily line the wall lay overs on top of the building's walls. Another thing you can do, if scripts are not your strong suit, you can either join an SL scripters group or ask for help in the forums on how to understand your scripts and get them working.

I have read a lot.... The problem is that I don't understand the text, even if the notecard is dead on.

Yes, the anchor sound like a good idea. They would have to edit it and unlink it. Another challenge.

[PrudenceAnton]

2 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I have read a lot.... The problem is that I don't understand the text, even if the notecard is dead on.

Yes, the anchor sound like a good idea. They would have to edit it and unlink it. Another challenge.

They can edit and unlink it, or turn the add on phantom and turn the block invisible.  

As for the text, perhaps you could have a friend that understands English or the languages you would like the instructions typed out in?  It doesn't have to be complex instructions, just the basic information, perhaps include a couple of example images?

Edited August 10, 2019 by PrudenceAnton

[Wulfie Reanimator]

6 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Yes, but can people texture these days?

Will they be willing to do it if the price is low?

Do you mean making new textures for the walls? That has always been a pretty niche skill, but maybe the people who would buy a wall addon are more familiar with editing.

Do you mean manually swapping the texture on the walls from a set in their inventory that you've included with the walls?
My cynical answer is no, because it seems like most people are used to scripts and no-modify products and forgot the built-in edit window exists.
My Magic 8-ball says: "There's still hope."

Edited August 10, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Marianne Little]

3 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

Yes, many people can figure out the basic texturing if you want to just include your textures in the pack (copy/mod/no transfer) and they can apply them through using edit linked parts. You can always give a brief explanation how to do this.  Most people love to be able to modify their items if given an option.

This solution would help those who have bought add-ons before. If the add-ons are modify, they can change the textures on all the add-ons they have.

I will have to give out the the textures anyway, because of that. (copy/mod/no transfer)

I would have to write a lot of disclaimers, that I can't help them if their add-ons are no modify. Sigh. Every time the thought of making something for others strike me, it is so complicated. Not so much making it, but all the other things.

[PrudenceAnton]

1 minute ago, Marianne Little said:

This solution would help those who have bought add-ons before. If the add-ons are modify, they can change the textures on all the add-ons they have.

I will have to give out the the textures anyway, because of that. (copy/mod/no transfer)

I would have to write a lot of disclaimers, that I can't help them if their add-ons are no modify. Sigh. Every time the thought of making something for others strike me, it is so complicated. Not so much making it, but all the other things.

Just put a note on the information that, before purchasing this product, read the foot notes:  using these add ons requires some basic editing skills.  I am not responsible for purchases by customers that have not read the information about how this product is delivered. etc etc etc

[Marianne Little]

I am still working on the walls. Trying to get rid of flickering at 200 m distance and LOD 1. It is not so easy, but it is easier to work on that. than on scripts.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

I am still working on the walls. Trying to get rid of flickering at 200 m distance and LOD 1. It is not so easy, but it is easier to work on that. than on scripts.

So my version of the same add-on came in at 6li just like yours (not too surprising).   Aside from my stone work they are pretty much the same.    I just made four versions with four (new) siding styles and put them in a pack.  Honestly, I can't see why they need to be scripted.  That's just another hud to find dig around and find in inventory . 

 

OR you could use the older method with the blue box popup choices. Trompe Loeil still uses those and I do to. No need to dig in inventory to find huds. I have some very accomplished builder friends who had issues with the purchased huds and understanding so it is NOT just a language thing apparently :D. 

 

I am pretty much a low script gal, both in making and in using.  Scripts just add to lag and we don't need more lag.   Not sure why you feel you need to give out textures as that is RARELY done -- but of course that is your choice.  

 

Anyway, great job and congrats on that. 

 

PS. that flicker thing may not be under your control. It might be a "thin plane" viewing problem with the viewer.  The only fix I can think of (in that case) would to make the walls double sided and thicker which "might" add to the land impact.  I haven't seen any flick but across the sim at LOD1 is definitely a test LOL. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[Raevyn Addams]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

What do you demand of your add-ons and such?

Must it have:

Rez box.

Scripted texture change.

 - and I assume it is important to set script to owner only and/or group, so no others can change it?

Blue pop-up screen.

- or HUD that attach to screen with images on, let us say different panel walls.

Must it have a rez box?

No.

Must it be scripted to change textures?

No (so the dialog/blue box question is irrelevant).

As a consumer I prefer things to be mod so I can edit to my liking. But being mod opens up the possibility for someone to abuse it (for example, tint their walls bright red and full bright), though what someone does with your creation is beyond your control. If it were me and I were not taking the script route I would create multiple copies with different textures as @PrudenceAnton suggested (with an anchor prim and instructions).

Bearing in mind the covenant:

*Residents may decorate the interior of their house to their liking. The exterior should always remain in theme out of consideration for your neighbors.

Which is why I reiterate if you as creator have control over the textures and colour you can stop others from breaking the covenant and any potential blow-back in your direction when someone does (not that I see any but I always try and plan for the worst case scenario when dealing with other people as they are the unknown variable). Then later should feedback warrant it you could provide different texture packs in this same fashion as an added bonus as needed; for example siding with Christmas lights or stencils "painted on", Halloween bats and pumpkin stencils, etc etc. It has great potential for future (and easy) development if nothing else?

And I agree with @Chic Aeon; I don't see the need for more scripts and lag when the same thing can be accomplished without.

Amazing work as always (and I hope you'll be working on the Alderley at some point in the future too! Fingers crossed) *makes grabby hands and just throws my pay check at you* 🤣

[Arquet]

If you go the scripted route, the blue pop up choices thingy (probably not the technical term) is what the Linden Homes use anyway, so it'll be familiar to most people.

Personally, I prefer anything that's mod, but when it comes to houses exteriors, @RaeLeeH makes a good point about the potential for breaking the covenant - though I certainly don't believe creators should feel responsible if people use your creations in a way that goes against any kind of rules, so I personally wouldn't worry about it too much - YMMV. 

If you're so inclined, maybe you could provide different packs with different functionality (mod vs script or rez box vs no rez box), and see what's more popular, and then you can decide further down the road what works best... 

What would be great, though, is if it could include shadow/ AO maps, if there are any. Included as part of the package, not a something you have to pay for extra. That would be brilliant!

[Emma Krokus]

I would only buy mod.

If textures are supplied with the walls, I am quite capable of applying them. Learning skills such as texturing makes SL so much more.

If there were no textures but a basic texturing map was supplied, I would have a go at making my own.

OR slap on the textures I got (can do this happily for hours!) until something looks just right.

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Emma Krokus

[Marianne Little]

I will have it mod, no matter what. It can show as no mod if the script is no mod.

Giving out textures was because what is the point in changing the house panel, if you bought amazing add-ons? We have our own creators here, and thankfully they sell mod.

Let us say you bought a large room addition and were forced to use only LH textures on it? If I bought a panel add-on and could not change exsisting add-ons, I would be annoyed and frustrated.

[LittleMe Jewell]

A rez box is not needed or required, but helpful in getting large items rezzed correctly and actually on your parcel - so you don't keep getting that error message because too much of the object is trying to rez outside the parcel. With manual rezzing, if you are standing in front of your house, or possible to the side, and drag a large object from inventory to the ground, depending on the orientation of it and the property, you might have to try the rezzing a few times to get it to actually rez.  Newbies might not understand what is going on and can thus get frustrated.  Easier to just place a rez box in the designated area and it properly places the item(s).  There are a few freebies/cheapies on MP that are super easy to use.

Including textures that you've purchased full perm will require you checking the licensing agreement of the textures and at the very least you'll likely need to reset the permissions to not be full perm.  If all of the textures would align the same, the including them would be nice, but if someone has to play with the offsets & such, it might be better (especially for new people) if you just included a copy with each texture on it.  Then, with it also copy/mod, folks could play around with applying textures themselves.

ETA:  IMO, either including some textures or including multiple copies textured differently is preferable to scripting it with a texture changer, simply to keep the number of scripts in things down.

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[Marianne Little]

It is very simple to texture it. It is only one face, no adjustment.

I fixed a seam and connected the gables, so there is no need to click more than once. Before, the gables was separate.

[Marianne Little]

I need paint names. It is annoying to read Panel 1, Panel 2, Panel 3.

Sage, Sea Glass and Driftwood would identify them as two shades of green and one grey?

[Blush Bravin]

I can share my experience. I make all my architectural products mod/copy. At one time I didn't include huds because I thought people could just drop their own textures on the product but I got complaints because there are a lot of consumers out there who do not want to have to touch the build menu at all. So, I try to accommodate by adding HUDs for texture change. Honestly, sometimes I wish I could just drop the finished mesh into a package and name it .. please texture anyway you like.  

[Chic Aeon]

Just a general note on the subject.  While people can certainly change the textures on the outside of any mod add-ons, they will likely need SOME building skills (and perhaps a bit more) in order to get any horizontal siding lines to match the other add-ons from other makers. Some makers haven't done a great job with the scale of the textures so that adds to the confusion for new to building folks.  

 

Textures that are NOT full perm can be problematic to use (I can remember a lot of error messages on no transfer textures in my youth) so again, difficult for new folks. IF they are your own textures, then selling them in a texture pack just for the folks that want them might be a good option.

IF they are purchased textures then there really is an issue as those cannot remain full perm (from any vendor that I have seen anyway).  In THAT case then going with the UUID  hud method may be the only real choice.

 

And I can't see how Linden Lab would hold any add-on creator responsible for what someone does with their MOD creation.  That makes no sense at all to me. It is up to the purchaser to keep a product (any product - not just a house add on) IN THEME.  And "in theme" seems pretty broad, but it seems like any siding that was used in the mid century in the US would be OK.  

[Raevyn Addams]

19 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

And I can't see how Linden Lab would hold any add-on creator responsible for what someone does with their MOD creation.  That makes no sense at all to me. It is up to the purchaser to keep a product (any product - not just a house add on) IN THEME.  And "in theme" seems pretty broad, but it seems like any siding that was used in the mid century in the US would be OK.  

I agree, and would sincerely hope that remains the case. The reason I mentioned it was basically this: after months of listening to people gripe about all the things their neighbours have done wrong and all the rules being broken, giving them something else they will no doubt abuse and for others to complain about seems like a self-perpetuating drama.

The flip-side of this is of course there are add-ons that are mod being used right now and for now so far I haven't seen anyone abuse those.

People will do what they will do. Can't really do anything to stop someone if they're determined. 😟

[Nika Talaj]

8 hours ago, PrudenceAnton said:

Only owner needs to have controls to change the wall textures.

Nonono.  This needs to be group as well.  Many typists have 'land ownership' groups with a few alts in them.  Or are partnered, and domestic bliss may be impaired if both cannot change textures.

Wrt textures, someone gave me a set of walls and I was amazed to see it had a retexturing HUD, with many options.  For ME, I played with the HUD a little, found myself irritated with the fact that it used UUIDs and the textures weren't included so I couldn't juggle them on the faces how I wanted, and never looked at the HUD again.  My personal ideal wall set would have:

Copy/mod textures with shadow maps etc., so I could put a decoration on the wall in GIMP if I want.

Many faces, with repeats already set so they're utterly seamless if I use your textures as a base to modify.

If you're providing very different looks, like shingles vs. siding (incidentally, I LOVE shingles on this style of house!), it would be great to either provide a HUD to make that global change in one click, or to give separate versions of the build.

I don't have time to take on a scripting project, but adding an access menu for owner/group/everyone is pretty easy if you want me to take a look.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Nika Talaj

[Quartz Mole]

10 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Maybe I can make this one work:http://www.aliciastella.com/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=24

but I can't figure it out, if it's possible to change between owner/group. How important is that?

The way that script is written, anyone can use it, which probably isn't what you want.

To make it so only the owner can use it, then you need to change the touch_start event to something like this:

	touch_start(integer total_number)
	{
		user = llDetectedKey(0);
		if(user == llGetOwner(){
			menu(user,"Please select one below.",texture_list);
		}
	}

To make it so the owner or someone has the appropriate group  as their active group can use it, then this should do it

	touch_start(integer total_number)
	{
		user = llDetectedKey(0);
		if(user == llGetOwner() || llSameGroup(user)){
			menu(user,"Please select one below.",texture_list);
		}
	}

 

[Eliza Wrigglesworth]

The only thing I need is copy/mod perms. I mod everything no matter how perfect. There's always a little change I want.

Your problem with that, is that not everyone can, or wants to learn modify something by hand. Even if you have the simplest HUDs and scripts, you'll get a lot of IMs for help. 

If it were me, I'd soft link a prim with instructions on where to place it, then delete it. Most people learn that copy perms means that they can mess up over and over and over, and they can always get a brand new copy.

I'm looking forward to your release! I love to shop 🥰