Hangars Liquides is closing!

[Fionalein]

1 minute ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

@Fionalein I would like to publicly thank you for contributing to the salvation of Hangars Liquides on New World Notes too! You're unstoppable and I am sure the joy of contributing to others must be so very fulfilling!

You're welcome

[Kyrah Abattoir]

I'm also not sure how this goes with their status as a French non-profit organisation (W642000508). I'm reading that it's a common "approach" for music groups to register as a non profit and then pay their expenses, without the tax burden of running a normal company.

On 7/17/2019 at 3:27 PM, kiramanell said:

 

That, among other things, is where the 'petty' would come in.  LL can, at their sole discretion, decide to preserve anything they want, whenever they want.

Oh absolutely! However, asking for special treatment after you broke the rules is not the best way to go about it.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Kyrah Abattoir

[Ted McGregor]

Serioiusly ?

All the wanna-be lawyers insim want to have the sim terminated on real life non-profit status and are pleading here to have it revoked , because of a few rentals inworld ?  And the petty inworld landbarons behind hit ? And if it has to it kills off all art inworld if needed ?

What idiocy is this ?

And it doesn't matter. The sim sitll belongs to a non-profit orginazation, I will donate, gladly, expect nothing for it back and that's my own business.

And if Djehan gives me a lil' sanbox to play with some prims is no one's business anymore at all.  I'm certain we find, hopefully soon, minds alike.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

13 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Serioiusly ?

All the wanna-be lawyers insim want to have the sim terminated on real life non-profit status and are pleading here to have it revoked , because of a few rentals inworld ?  And the petty inworld landbarons behind hit ? And if it has to it kills off all art inworld if needed ?

What idiocy is this ?

And it doesn't matter. The sim sitll belongs to a non-profit orginazation, I will donate, gladly, expect nothing for it back and that's my own business.

And if Djehan gives me a lil' sanbox to play with some prims is no one's business anymore at all.  I'm certain we find, hopefully soon, minds alike.

TD, I wouldn't waste my time in discussing. You are focused in saving an artwork which inspires you, other people have other ideas, and they are free to express them. Just focus on your commitment, let people do what they do, and say what they say. 

[Ted McGregor]

Sorry, Lawrence, but i just don't care anymore.

The day this sim is gone, I cancel my SL subscription permanently.

 

I'm out of this thread and these forums.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

13 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Serioiusly ?

All the wanna-be lawyers insim want to have the sim terminated on real life non-profit status and are pleading here to have it revoked , because of a few rentals inworld ?  And the petty inworld landbarons behind hit ? And if it has to it kills off all art inworld if needed ?

What idiocy is this ?

And it doesn't matter. The sim sitll belongs to a non-profit orginazation, I will donate, gladly, expect nothing for it back and that's my own business.

And if Djehan gives me a lil' sanbox to play with some prims is no one's business anymore at all.  I'm certain we find, hopefully soon, minds alike.

No one is terminating anything, the region owner is free to keep paying for the regions, that's what everyone running a region in SL does. This is not my fault, your fault or Linden Labs fault, everyone knew in advance what was involved.

But that's the thing, when you are under the umbrella of a non profit org, there are rules to follow, this is not the same as private funding or running a for-profit company. There are very real considerations there.

[KylaVixen]

Well Im apologise i haven`t thoroughly followed all the thread. As far as i remember (maybe wrong) most mesh content in the sim was made by one designer. If them are generous enough in sharing their art, can the place make a new appearance on OpenSIm worlds, such as the OSGrid? Sorry if that idea was already discussed/

[Lawrence Celestalis]

3 minutes ago, KylaVixen said:

Well Im apologise i haven`t thoroughly followed all the thread. As far as i remember (maybe wrong) most mesh content in the sim was made by one designer. If them are generous enough in sharing their art, can the place make a new appearance on OpenSIm worlds, such as the OSGrid? Sorry if that idea was already discussed/

We discussed that with Djehan and she has no interest in exporting Hangars Liquides to OpenSim. If the city survives, she will keep updating it on Second Life. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis

[Lawrence Celestalis]

39 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Sorry, Lawrence, but i just don't care anymore.

The day this sim is gone, I cancel my SL subscription permanently.

 

I'm out of this thread and these forums.

I have had a surprising high amount of inworld messages by people telling me their sole reason for logging into Second Life was Hangars Liquides. I think it honours Djehan's efforts. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis

[KylaVixen]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

I have had a surprising high amount of inworld messages by people telling me their sole reason for logging into Second Life was Hangars Liquides. I think it honours Djehan's efforts. 

Oh that`s such a pity. But i can understand why. Thank you, Lawrence ...

At least i hope they know the way to save this mesh to restore this easily if the rent is collected too late.

PS

Where the donation box btw?

Edited July 18, 2019 by KylaVixen

[Lawrence Celestalis]

4 minutes ago, KylaVixen said:

Oh that`s such a pity. But i can understand why. Thank you, Lawrence ...

At least i hope they know the way to save this mesh to restore this easily if the rent is collected too late.

PS

Where the donation box btw?

Thank you Kyla, donation box is at landing zone of Hangars Liquides, you can message me inworld and I will send you a Landmark, otherwise you can read this New World Notes article: https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2019/07/hangars-liquides-second-life-djehan-kidd-indiegogo.html

[Lawrence Celestalis]

3 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I'm reading that it's a common "approach" for music groups to register as a non profit and then pay their expenses, without the tax burden of running a normal company.

Your assumptions about HL breaking the rules are assumptions by a non informed person. I won't go into details as it wouldn't make any difference but lead to further off topic delicacies. Similarly, what you hear about music groups tricking the laws is not what Hangars Liquides does. HL will either be preserved or survive thanks to donations, or be gone. The fact LL has been blind to art in the past and that has coincided with an increasing amount of residents leaving doesn't mean that they need to keep repeating the same mistakes, they may well improve their strategies. What HL is requesting LL to do is not to allow them to cheat, it is to start making things possible for artists to operate within Sl, not only for HL, but for all artists. That you see artistic talent and technical prowess as arrogance and self entitlement is completely acceptable: you may have no background at all in art, or you may be be offended by the aforementioned artistic talent and technical ability. Hoping to have answered all your very pleasant  and engaging posts, I will proceed to focus my attention once again to the topic of this thread, and ignore all further off topic posts. 

[Miranda Umino]

1 hour ago, KylaVixen said:

Well Im apologise i haven`t thoroughly followed all the thread. As far as i remember (maybe wrong) most mesh content in the sim was made by one designer. If them are generous enough in sharing their art, can the place make a new appearance on OpenSIm worlds, such as the OSGrid? Sorry if that idea was already discussed/

Oh ... you mean opensim as Inworldz ( Islandz ) who has shut down  for "financial issues" ?    Not a good idea

Edited July 18, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Kyrah Abattoir]

34 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

Your assumptions about HL breaking the rules are assumptions by a non informed person. I won't go into details as it wouldn't make any difference but lead to further off topic delicacies.

And I assume we are supposed to blindly trust your judgement... because?

41 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

The fact LL has been blind to art in the past and that has coincided with an increasing amount of residents leaving doesn't mean that they need to keep repeating the same mistakes, they may well improve their strategies.

I'm not sure what is the point of blaming Linden Lab here, from day 1 all region owners are fully aware that the day they stop paying for their region is the day they go kaput.

Hangars Liquides decided that it was worth renting their first full region and an extra homestead in 2008 and then added two more homesteads in early 2010.

1 hour ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

We discussed that with Djehan and she has no interest in exporting Hangars Liquides to OpenSim. If the city survives, she will keep updating it on Second Life. 

They don't sound like they care that much about saving their work if they won't even bother making a backup.

[Fionalein]

2 hours ago, Miranda Umino said:

 Oh ... you mean opensim as Inworldz ( Islandz ) who has shut down  for "financial issues" ?    Not a good idea

Opensimulator is a technology, Inworldz just was one company using it.

Djehan could easily conserve the Hangars Liquides cluster on a private Opensimulator  'server'* but apparently doesn't want to. Maybe running it on a grid that is owned by a company that will not hesitate to shut it down once money stops flowing just adds to the angst of the dystopian concept...

Many contemporary art is doomed to expire - it's part of the concept - for a famous example see here.

*which can be any halfway up to date desktop PC, hence the parantheses

Edited July 18, 2019 by Fionalein

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

Djehan could easily conserve the Hangars Liquides cluster on a private Opensimulator  'server'* but apparently doesn't want to. Maybe running it on a grid that is owned by a company that will not hesitate to shut it down once money stops flowing just adds to the angst of the dystopian concept...

Many contemporary art is doomed to expire - it's part of the concept - for a famous example see here. 

I like it, it's way better than my theory.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

4 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

And I assume we are supposed to blindly trust your judgement... because?

I was there and you were not. That you trust me or not makes no difference. What counts is I don't trust you, so I won't disclose details you would distort to talk down HL. 

 

4 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I'm not sure what is the point of blaming Linden Lab here, from day 1 all region owners are fully aware that the day they stop paying for their region is the day they go kaput.

Hangars Liquides decided that it was worth renting their first full region and an extra homestead in 2008 and then added two more homesteads in early 2010.

Not blaming LL, they are shooting themselves in the foot and losing all artists and their communities since 2010, and of course they are fully entitled and free to do so. They will ultimately find themselves with pixel pimps and curvy whores in a porn world. Not completely bad, and still very dystopian. 

 

4 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

They don't sound like they care that much about saving their work if they won't even bother making a backup.

You know nothing and assume everything just to belittle DK. City has been backed up as to the point it was possible to. 

 

3 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Djehan could easily conserve the Hangars Liquides cluster on a private Opensimulator  'server'* but apparently doesn't want to. Maybe running it on a grid that is owned by a company that will not hesitate to shut it down once money stops flowing just adds to the angst of the dystopian concept...

Nowhere near reality. If the city disappears, she will simply move on to more advanced systems and to AR. Makes complete sense. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis

[Lawrence Celestalis]

William Gibson, the godfather of cyberpunk, just retweeted New World Notes regarding the saving of Hangars Liquides! That's not the first time he supports us, and it's certainly a honour to have such real life outstanding people supporting Djehan Kidd and Hangars Liquides. Thank you for making a difference!

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis

[Jeny Howlett]

20 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

William Gibson, the godfather of cyberpunk, just retweeted New World Notes regarding the saving of Hangars Liquides! That's not the first time he supports us, and it's certainly a honour to have such real life outstanding people supporting Djehan Kidd and Hangars Liquides. Thank you for making a difference!

 

 

 

Amazing! I pray HL get saved in time. knowing the deadline is August 1st

[Jeny Howlett]

All these smart comments about whether Hangars Liquides should be saved or not. I don't think there should be a question about it, period. Thank you Lawrence for keeping it civil and not falling into the trap. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Jeny Howlett

[Lawrence Celestalis]

10 minutes ago, Jeny Howlett said:

All these smart comments about whether Hangars Liquides should be saved or not. I don't think there should be a question about it, period. Thank you Lawrence for keeping it civil and not falling into the trap. 

I know, right?  "Just because William Gibson, Venice Art Biennale, New World Notes, The Guardian and Oprah Winfrey support you, should we think you are worth?" LOL! Thank you for your support and appreciation!

[Fionalein]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

 I know, right?  "Just because William Gibson, Venice Art Biennale, New World Notes, The Guardian and Oprah Winfrey support you, should we think you are worth?" LOL! Thank you for your support and appreciation!

Those together sure have enough Dollars to save the Hangar Liquides sims ... where is your problem then?

[Alwin Alcott]

14 minutes ago, Jeny Howlett said:

All these smart comments about whether Hangars Liquides should be saved or not. I don't think there should be a question about it, period. Thank you Lawrence for keeping it civil and not falling into the trap. 

your "period"  says you'r above all others ... And why should your opinion be leading? .. It's completely legitime to have questions about the way it's held, and how they try to keep it up.
I won't have any problem with it being preserved, but in that case... out with the previous owner and groups, just preserve it.
At the other side i won't have one more sleepless night added when it's poofing next week.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

6 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

I won't have any problem with it being preserved, but in that case... out with the previous owner and groups, just preserve it.
At the other side i won't have one more sleepless night added when it's poofing next week.

Nor shall we about your opinions  

[Miranda Umino]

8 hours ago, Jeny Howlett said:

 All these smart comments about whether Hangars Liquides should be saved or not. I don't think there should be a question about it, period. Thank you Lawrence for keeping it civil and not falling into the trap. 

I think that , indeed , the question doesn t need to basaked : when hangar liquides makes a crowdfunding of 6000 dollars ,  how can you tell this "not commercial activity" ?

And why in 2000 , hangar liquides was registered as SARL [Moderator Edit: Real World information removed]

It proves that hangar liquides had real intentions to make profit , and , as ofen in France , has maked gis activities in claiming "non orhanisation" to escape the french fees . And now ., they want to escape the USA fees

Edited July 19, 2019 by Dakota Linden
[Moderator Edit: Real World information removed]