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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

It has rather become an unhealthy obsession for some...

it has become an unhealthy obsession for some to try to smear HL reputation 

Edited by Jeny Howlett
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4 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

... long wall of text ...

You simply don't get it. It is not their rallying - more power to them if they rally for a good cause. It is because of the way they rally. They called everything else inferior.

When this was first published I was hoping for HL to stay on the grid - but then they produced so much vitriol that I could not care less if they left the grid and took the agressive part of their supporters with them - I'd actually welcome it.

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1 minute ago, Jeny Howlett said:

it has become an unhealthy obsessesion for some to try to smear HL reputation 

True, but they made him their spokesman none the less ;)

 

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2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

You simply don't get it. It is not their rallying - more power to them if they rally for a good cause. It is because of the way they rally. They called everything else inferior.

When this was first published I was hoping for HL to stay on the grid - but then they produced so much vitriol that I could not care less if they left the grid and took the agressive part of their supporters with them - I'd actually welcome it.

 

I have yet to see anyone call the work of others inferior. What I do see, though, is ppl getting angry (and pretty much jelly, really) for ppl wanting to preserve THIS sim, while the things dear to them apparently didn't get the same attention in the past.

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1 minute ago, kiramanell said:

As for ppl suggesting HL be 'amputated', and just left running with half the sims cut off, yes, I will gladly concede to stating those folks do not exactly 'get' art. :)

That part I bolded? That may "rally the base" but it's the part one does not say out loud when trying to convince somebody of a position rather than generate page after page of pushback.

Personally I'm not much invested one way or another about Hangars. It does make me twitchy, however, when folks claim to be Art Authorities. Except @ArtDecider on Twitter.

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There have been - only in this thread mind you - at most two users responding with the intention to "smear" beging their primary impetus, trolling is more accurate.

Seriously, this "tactic" of overstating/mangling the intent of some responders is unhelpful to the purported cause sme of you have here.

If you are truly serious about presenting a good image and actually saving the place: Stop it, yesterday.

This is a public forum on the Internet, you're going to have a few whose only goal is to troll or stir up trouble - ignore them. Do not treat every user with a question or who questions your motives as a troll either - that will damage your cause.

Mind that is not all that will damage your cause but .... I really do hope some are mature enough to see and understand without the need to call further examples out.

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7 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

That's how some of you sound trying to defend someone that got caught after breaking a well kniw n rule for quite some time. I don't blame LL for not allowing them nonprofit status discount and it is not because it's a badly made region

First of all I am sorry for the sim you loved which was closed. Secondly, that someone got caught in breaking the rules is your assumption and not what's happened. There was a technical issue (not going into more details) by LL which created a misunderstanding between LL and HL. Once that was cleared and solved, HL announced what you have read. Hope that clarifies the situation for you. All the best.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

SL As a whole is big collaborative piece of performance art, every part of it is  ephemeral. That's what makes it special.

That may indeed be a way to look at Sl, a paragon with the finite human life. Thank you

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis
Minor spelling corrections

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1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

It has rather become an unhealthy obsession for some...

I agree, especially for those who continuosly talk it down, making all sorts of false assumptions only to put it under a bad light. This I understand less than what the ones who love it do, but of course I accept it. 

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5 hours ago, Evangeline Arcadia said:

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but would it not be possible for the owner to create some commercial spaces to help with income?I understand it's not-for-profit, but what if the decision was made to become for profit instead? That way there could be some spaces for shops (with perhaps strict covenants that only certain types of items could be sold that are in keeping with the feel of HL) to be rented, and apartments too (again strict covenant that they are maintained to keep with the theme of HL). If there is the fan base that's suggested here would there not be enough support to help generate some of  income this way to keep it open?

I don't know enough about the status of HL, non-profit etc., and I maybe asking a silly question based on ignorance of the matter. Was just a thought:)

I think it's unfortunate when lovely builds have to close, and there have been many over the years. Places like these are what I think contribute to SL being a great place to visit and be. But the reality of the financial aspects can make that hard to maintain. I'd personally love to have a region and make a beautiful place, but the costs make it out of the question. Perhaps however, with LL saying they are moving more towards lower land costs etc. that this may become less the case in the future.

Hello Evangeline and thank you for your suggestion. What you suggest has been of course evaluated and HL has chosen to launch a fundraiser. Thank you, I understand the thread is very long.

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1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

You simply don't get it. It is not their rallying - more power to them if they rally for a good cause. It is because of the way they rally. They called everything else inferior.

When this was first published I was hoping for HL to stay on the grid - but then they produced so much vitriol that I could not care less if they left the grid and took the agressive part of their supporters with them - I'd actually welcome it.

A huge amount of vitriol, the one that has been constantly thrown at HL, (with some episodes of trolling and one user being so abusive that her posts have been deleted by a moderator) compeletely escapes you, and I think it's normal. HL lovers are present to that amount, while you notice something else. It's all good. 

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1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

You simply don't get it. It is not their rallying - more power to them if they rally for a good cause. It is because of the way they rally. They called everything else inferior.

Fiona can you point to the text where they called everything else inferior?

Also, Lawrence, can you describe again what happened? It was discovered that rentals existed and so this violated the non-profit status and price reduction, thereby making the sims unaffordable?

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Fiona can you point to the text where they called everything else inferior?

 

On 7/17/2019 at 11:12 PM, TDD123 said:

No. The mudslinging is this incessant "No, this sim is just doomed like any other, because our own junk needs to be equal." .

That' s just plain cold and dirty towards this sim to me.

Be 'right'  all you want. I care not.

with pleasure, emphasis mine

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8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Also, Lawrence, can you describe again what happened? It was discovered that rentals existed and so this violated the non-profit status and price reduction, thereby making the sims unaffordable?

Hello Luna, no, that is not what happened. There was a technical issue by LL that generated a misunderstanding which lasted some time. Once that was solved, we came to the current situation. I am not diclosing more not to make either LL or HL the bad guys (given the passionate interpretations you may encounter in previous posts), since it was really only a technical issue, and that can happen. 

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19 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

Hello Luna, no, that is not what happened. There was a technical issue by LL that generated a misunderstanding which lasted some time. Once that was solved, we came to the current situation. I am not diclosing more not to make either LL or HL the bad guys (given the passionate interpretations you may encounter in previous posts), since it was really only a technical issue, and that can happen. 

this is not helpful Lawrence

what is technical about applying for non-profit tier discount, having this granted, and then putting parcels out to rent. When the conditions for non-profit tier discount clearly state that we can't do this

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Education_and_Non-Profit_Discount_Terms_and_Conditions

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

Also, Lawrence, can you describe again what happened? It was discovered that rentals existed and so this violated the non-profit status and price reduction, thereby making the sim unaffordable?

Also Luna, I would like to add that LL have been very collaborative in spotting the technical issue and solve it, and we at HL do appreciate the customer service which has been timely.

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7 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

what is technical about applying for non-profit tier discount, having this granted, and then putting parcels out to rent. When the conditions for non-profit tier discount clearly state that we can't do this

That was not what happened. The technical issue generated a change in the above mentioned conditions, which lasted some time. Then it was spotted, discussed and solved. I would like to point out once again that HL has never broken any Tos rules. It's not how the non profit is conducted. And we do not deem LL responsible when they have been very resourceful in solving the issue. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

 And we do not deem LL responsible when they have been very resourceful in solving the issue. 

By disguising prepayed rentals as indigogo 'donations'? I'll take we can all do this now?

Edited by Fionalein

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1 minute ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

The technical issue generated a change in the above mentioned conditions, which lasted some time. Then it was spotted, discussed and solved

the wiki entry giving the requirements for non-profit discounts was last edited in 2014. 5 years ago

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there's a load of bs in this thread that you don't even need to fertilize the parcels for ten years..

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2 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

the wiki entry giving the requirements for non-profit discounts was last edited in 2014. 5 years ago

Thank you for pointing that out, we are aware. That doesn't change what I stated above. 

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6 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

By disguising prepayed rentals as indigogo 'donations'? I'll take we can all do this now?

The non profit is acting within its right in order to fund its mission. Many people are donating for the sake of it. One person donated 1000 dollars, and I am sure it's not for a yearly rental, because no rental in HL would ever be that expensive. These people want to save HL, not reside in it, and I don't know why you have a problem with that. With no offense meant, I find your statements rather distorting and calumnious. 

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59 minutes ago, Fionalein said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Fiona can you point to the text where they called everything else inferior?

 

On 7/17/2019 at 4:12 PM, TDD123 said:

No. The mudslinging is this incessant "No, this sim is just doomed like any other, because our own junk needs to be equal." .

That' s just plain cold and dirty towards this sim to me.

Be 'right'  all you want. I care not.

with pleasure, emphasis mine

While I don't agree with calling other people's creations "junk", I think there's a kernel of truth he/she points to regarding the motivation in some who feel the need to trash HL -- jealousy/anger over their own creations or favorite sims not receiving recognition.

I doubt TDD123 actually believes all other creations in SL are junk, and I see his/her statement as a way to insult others work because he feels they've already insulted the sim he/she is championing -- it's definitely not the best way to achieve his/her goals, but I can forgive it as it's said in anger after feeling insulted. But most importantly, we have no proof that the creator of LH, or Lawrence, or any of the others that champion HL believes all other creations in SL apart from their project are "junk". From what I can see, they simply believe it's a good project they hope can be saved.
Regarding other comments, if someone is accusing you/your project of not being worthy isn't the normal response an attempt to prove that you are 'good' -- this is what I see happening with some who attempted to praise HL here (via calling it "art", or revealing "big name" supporters of the project).

I can understand why you'd feel inclined to withdraw support for someone/some project that believes they are better than everyone else, but I just don't see the evidence they believe this.

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1 minute ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

Thank you for pointing that out, we are aware. That doesn't change what I stated above. 

unless you guys give a clear explanation of what you are now not talking about, then you are going to start losing public support

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