Hangars Liquides is closing!

[Luna Bliss]

53 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

There was a technical issue by LL that generated a misunderstanding which lasted some time. Once that was solved, we came to the current situation. I am not diclosing more not to make either LL or HL the bad guys (given the passionate interpretations you may encounter in previous posts)

It's unfortunate you can't reveal the details, because it appears so many assume the worst and use it to justify their lack of support.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

Just now, Mollymews said:

unless you guys give a clear explanation of what you are now not talking about, then you are going to start losing public support

We have no interest in painting LL in a bad light given the level of "passion" that has been shown in this thread, when in fact they have been collaborative and helpful. 

[Mollymews]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

It's unfortunate you can't reveal the details, because it appears so many assume the worst and use it to justify their lack of support.

the danger is that without clear explanation the project can lose people who are supportive at this time

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

By disguising prepayed rentals as indigogo 'donations'? I'll take we can all do this now?

What would be wrong with a project that allowed others to live on their sim if they contributed to the project financially via other methods?

[Fionalein]

22 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

One person donated 1000 dollars, and I am sure it's not for a yearly rental, because no rental in HL would ever be that expensive.

Oh yeah?

Oh look here at the your own indiegogo campaign:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/save-hangars-liquides#/

Platinum Rooftop Lofts

€1.000 EUR €2.000 (50% OFF)

Exclusive access to one of the top 4 private rooftops & homes, 500LI & breathtaking views. These environments have been built especially to experiment a one of a kind immersion,I will personally assist you in this experience & I can also arrange it taylor made for you. You will get all my previously released environments and the ones to come.

 

PS: If you look cloesly at the crowdfunding website you will notice one of the 1000 dollar rewards was claimed...

 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Fionalein

[Lawrence Celestalis]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's unfortunate you can't reveal the details, because it appears so many assume the worst and use it to justify their lack of support.

I understand that, and if you scroll back you will understand how me disclosing further details would end up in either smearing LL or HL, just because of a technical issue that has already been spotted and solved without LL finding any Tos infringement. LL and HL are completely satisfied with the collaboration and also the eventual ending of the city will happen by respecting LL rules, as it has always happened.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

I understand that, and if you scroll back you will understand how me disclosing further details would end up in either smearing LL or HL, just because of a technical issue that has already been spotted and solved without LL finding any Tos infringement.

If it's just a technical issue though how would this smear anyone?

[Lawrence Celestalis]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If it's just a technical issue though how would this smear anyone?

A technical issue in this overheated thread would put LL in a bad light. We don't want that. You can ask them, and they will reply how they see fit. 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis
Minor spelling corrections

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

If it's just a technical issue though how would this smear anyone?

if i understand right ( form page 1) the whole issue is they had rentals at  discounted educational sims but got caught and now have the choice to pay full price or lock down.
and if your opinion is different than supporting keeping it up, or LL taking over, you dont have right to speak because you ( the poster) has no clue what art is.

[Fionalein]

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What would be wrong with a project that allowed others to live on their sim if they contributed to the project financially via other methods?

There have been court rulings in the past that reward driven crowdfunding campaigns can be considered a regular consumer transaction under certain cicumstances - with all the liabilities involved in those.

PS: AFAIK France has one of the customer friendliest crowdfunding laws worldwide ...

Edited July 20, 2019 by Fionalein

[Lawrence Celestalis]

3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

if i understand right ( form page 1) the whole issue is they had rentals at  discounted educational sims but got caught and now have the choice to pay full price or lock down.
and if your opinion is different than supporting keeping it up, or LL taking over, you dont have right to speak because you ( the poster) has no clue what art is.

Once again no, that's not what happened Alvin. You can read my previous posts on this same page. There was a technical issue that put all on hiatus for some time. Then the issue was discovered and fixed without no infringement be found.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis
Minor spelling corrections

[Lawrence Celestalis]

13 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

the danger is that without clear explanation the project can lose people who are supportive at this time

I understand and appreciate your preoccupation of HL losing support and I thank you for that. All the supporters are constantly informed and happy. 

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Oh yeah?

Oh look here at the your own indiegogo campaign:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/save-hangars-liquides#/

Platinum Rooftop Lofts

€1.000 EUR €2.000 (50% OFF)

Exclusive access to one of the top 4 private rooftops & homes, 500LI & breathtaking views. These environments have been built especially to experiment a one of a kind immersion,I will personally assist you in this experience & I can also arrange it taylor made for you. You will get all my previously released environments and the ones to come.

I don't believe there's a rule, in SL, that disallows others to live  or build on a non-profit sim while contributing financially via other means.

[Luna Bliss]

In fact, if there would be such a rule (that non-profit sims cannot allow residents to build on their sims or contribute in various ways), I'd say it's a rule that should be broken.  Worthy non-profit projects need funding in order to pay land costs, even if they do get a discount from LL.

[Fionalein]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't believe there's a rule, in SL, that disallows others to live  or build on a non-profit sim while contributing financially via other means.

from non profit discount TOS wiki entry ( http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Education_and_Non-Profit_Discount_Terms_and_Conditions ) :

• The Discounted Regions must be used for primarily non-commercial purposes. For avoidance of doubt, Discounted Regions (or any parts thereof) may not be subleased.

it does not mention the methods of that leasing wether out- / or in-world

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Fionalein

[Kyrah Abattoir]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

In fact, if there would be such a rule (that non-profit sims cannot allow residents to build on their sims or contribute in various ways), I'd say it's a rule that should be broken.  Worthy non-profit projects need funding in order to pay land costs, even if they do get a discount from LL.

I believe the problem is that Linden Lab has no real guarantees that the money collected in-world is being re-invested into the non-profit organisation, which is what is required of them: A non profit org is not allowed to make a profit.

us 501s and french 1901s are strictly regulated and for Linden Lab it's just simpler to put a blanket ban on commercial activities.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Kyrah Abattoir

[Alwin Alcott]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

In fact, if there would be such a rule (that non-profit sims cannot allow residents to build on their sims or contribute in various ways), I'd say it's a rule that should be broken.  Worthy non-profit projects need funding in order to pay land costs, even if they do get a discount from LL.

they got busted with rentals, that is explicitly forbidden on educational project sims.

Their new way is out of SL payment or donation and you get a place offered ...... whats the difference with rental? not a lot...

[Mollymews]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't believe there's a rule, in SL, that disallows others to live  or build on a non-profit sim while contributing financially via other means.

It appears to me that the various amounts mentioned on the indiegogo site indicate that the amounts for the 4 and 60 rentals on the indiegogo fund raising effort would equate to paying standard region tiers 

[Solar Legion]

A rental is a rental is a rental. it is for profit - no matter how you spin it.

Giving someone a home on site after a one time payment/large payment might pass as a donation and a "thank you" to said donator.

The on site rentals (that keep being dismissed) are - like it or not - considered to be for profit.

Allowing users to set up ftores free of any charge? That'd likely be allowed - even if said store owners turned around and made the occasional donation to sim upkeep.

The reason any of this has drawn attention is simple: These are all things that if done right, would not be in violation. How your government sees things, how you see things ... irrelevant.

How Linden Lab sees them: relevant and the only viewpoint on the subject that matters.

Waving your hands and avoiding addressing or trying to understand any of the above does not help you one whit.

That is the last time I'll try to act as a middle man in helping to understand the viewpoint of some of those that have posted and the last time I'll try to offer damage control advice.

Point blank: Your approach is not doing you any favors - at all.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

It would be pretty simple to setup a donation pot, lots of places in SL are run like that, setup a monthly goal to pay for tier and refuse any amount above that.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

44 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Oh yeah?

Oh look here at the your own indiegogo campaign:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/save-hangars-liquides#/

Platinum Rooftop Lofts

€1.000 EUR €2.000 (50% OFF)

Exclusive access to one of the top 4 private rooftops & homes, 500LI & breathtaking views. These environments have been built especially to experiment a one of a kind immersion,I will personally assist you in this experience & I can also arrange it taylor made for you. You will get all my previously released environments and the ones to come.

 

PS: If you look cloesly at the crowdfunding website you will notice one of the 1000 dollar rewards was claimed...

 

 

All the donors will be given homes in commercial sims in order to comply with LL Tos.  Do ask if you have more doubts.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

21 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

It would be pretty simple to setup a donation pot, lots of places in SL are run like that, setup a monthly goal to pay for tier and refuse any amount above that.

We already have that in place, thank you very much for the suggestion!

[Fionalein]

3 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

All the donors will be given homes in commercial sims in order to comply with LL Tos.  Do ask if you have more doubts.

And you could not relay that tiny but important bit of information earlier? What kind of spokesperson are you?

Edited July 20, 2019 by Fionalein

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

All the donors will be given homes in commercial sims in order to comply with LL Tos.  Do ask if you have more doubts.

thank you

had you said this at the start then people would not have had to wonder what the plan is going forward

[Lawrence Celestalis]

Just now, Fionalein said:

What kind of spokesperson are you?

I'd like to point out this part is unkind to say the least. I'd also like to point out once again that HL only operates legally both inworld and rl.