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Annabell Wandsworth

Forum becoming more negative?

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Just now, Rya Nitely said:

Your advisor wasn't being rude to you at all.

No she wasn't you are right.  I am just trying to say different styles work for different people :)

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11 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Your advisor wasn't being rude to you at all.

No, they were being blunt... 

 

36 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Nobody is helped by bluntness. It just upsets people. There is absolutely no good professional advice that would be given bluntly. Wouldn't professional advisors be using this method if it worked with people?

Bluntness helps people? We are adults. It's just bloody rudeness.  (bloody being an acceptable word to use, apparently)

Apparently, bluntness does help and IS being used by professionals, AND you agree with them!!!! 

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37 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Sorry, if I misunderstood your post but here is why:

'We in this forum are a mix of people - of natures. Some tend to be more kind than others, some tend to be more negative than others, some are both at different times, some tend to be argumentative, some tend to be accusatory (is that a word?), some tend to be helpful, etc. etc. In other words we are a pretty regular mix of humanity, each of us different to everyone else, and each of us displays the various aspects of our natures at different times.'

So, this is implying that 'the fire' is everywhere. This type of community or group is everywhere.

'As a community, we are what we are. If a community of people is unappealing, then the best thing to do is opt out of it'

hence, why doing this would be to isolate oneself.

I didn't imply that fire is everywhere. You mistakenly infered it, and you drew the wrong conclusion, because avoiding groups/communities where there is sometimes fire, does not mean isolation. It just means avoiding those groups/communities where there is sometimes fire. It's easy enough to understand.

I don't consider that misrepresenting people's words to be a kindness.

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It's not really 'same old'. This part of the thread is about kindness, and, although it does crop up once in a rare while, I don't think it can be described as 'same old'.

What is 'same old' is people infering things wrongly from what other people write.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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I think we should all try to be a little kinder in life. Everybody is going through something difficult, and everybody is cognizant of their failures in life and so can easily slip into feeling like they're a bad person when we criticize them. That's why people should criticize gently first before going to a stronger type of criticism.
I don't always live up to that, but I try.

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Being excessively harsh or blunt with one's criticism is usually an indication that the criticizer wants to punish the one they're critcizing instead of helping them.
This type of criticism is born out of frustration (basically wanting the other person to shut up beause we don't agree with them, and so we strike out to shut them up, take them down, make them feel bad so that we can feel like the 'good one' temporarily).

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Being excessively harsh or blunt with one's criticism is usually an indication that the criticizer wants to punish the one they're critcizing instead of helping them.

Often what an overly sensative person takes as harsh is not harsh, just written without sugary words. What is rude is clear, what is direct isn't rude. It's just... direct.

I don't believe that wrapping people in cotton wool and using sugary words so they can feel snuggly is the correct thing to do.

Edited by Callum Meriman
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Just now, Callum Meriman said:

I don't believe that wrapping people in cotton wool and using weasel words so they can feel snuggly is the correct thing to do.

What about wrapping them in cotton wool and using just weasels?...

 

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25 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Being excessively harsh or blunt with one's criticism is usually an indication that the criticizer wants to punish the one they're critcizing instead of helping them.

Often what an overly sensative person takes as harsh is not harsh, just written without sugary words. What is rude is clear, what is direct isn't rude. It's just... direct.

I don't believe that wrapping people in cotton wool and using sugary words so they can feel snuggly is the correct thing to do.

I think you're making this into an 'either-or' argument and it doesn't have to be.
The reality is that sometimes the sensitive person needs to change, and sometimes the environment (in this case, those critcizing the sensitive person) needs to change, and usually the case is that both parties need to change in order to get along better.

I would ask, how do you determine who is being "too sensitive"? Why should you be the judge of that? You would have to know the vast history of a person's past to have absolute certainty in your judgement. In some instances, yes, it can be clearer what is "too sensitive", but in many cases it is not.

But aside from that, what do I do when I encounter a person who seems to be very sensitive about something? I can tell you I don't immediately assert my supposed right to be as direct as I damm well please. Why? Because I'm not hurting and the other person is. I don't know why they're hurting at that moment and feeling sensitive -- maybe they're having a bad day because something horrible happened, maybe something horrible happened in their past and so what I've said is a trigger for them.
It's not my job to suss out why they're hurting and determine if it's 'right or wrong enough' to be sensitive about it, but it's very easy just to respond to the fact they feel hurt and tailor my behavior a bit by not being so direct. It doesn't cost me a thing.

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11 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:
14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

<angry words>

You seem to be attacking me? Why?

lol you seem to not be responding to what I just said. Why?

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I actually have a lot of experience in this -- needing to criticize others as I attempt to coral a bunch of sensitive artists to help complete big jobs for a customer. They never like to be told they've done something wrong, but the way I tell them they've done something wrong makes all the difference in the world as to how the problem gets resolved.
I'm thinking in particular about this woman I hired to make a small fishing boat to sit demurely at the edge of the tropical design. Well she built a damm yacht so large it took up a quarter sim, with a swimming pool on the top deck even!  I was pissed because she seemed not to hear my previous instructions, and because she wasted time on it and would delay the completion of the job. I could have gotten in her face about not following instructions, or dumped my disturbance over not completing the job in time. That would not have helped and she probably would have ended up only feeling bad about herself. I did make it clear this was not the boat I requested and that she needed to create a new one, yet I complemented her on the yacht and said I hoped it would sell on the MP. I've found it's always good to say something positive (honestly positive, as I did like that yacht) when criticizing. It left her feeling enthused/inspired even though she did know she made a mistake.

Edited by Luna Bliss
clarity
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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

lol you seem to not be responding to what I just said. Why?

Maybe I am misreading your words... You don't see that your phrases...

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Why should you be the judge of that?

and

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I can tell you I don't immediately assert my supposed right to be as direct as I damm well please.

Are not being harsh? 

They way you write them seems like you are angry at me.

Or am I just misunderstanding the intent of your words? That you are just being direct with me and I am being overly sensative and missing the point and reading stuff that doesn't exist into those words.

 

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I think I'd split the difference between Luna and Callum. I'm not the most cuddly person in the world, but I do try to make allowances for the disposition of anyone I engage. If I think they're being overly sensitive, I might soften my delivery, but also suggest they reconsider the efficacy of their perception. And I'll do this because I'm not going to be the only one who think's they're too sensitive. Even if they offer up a compelling explanation for their sensitivity, the rest of the world isn't going to soften up for them.

If my interaction is public, as in this forum, my message isn't just for the one I'm engaging, it's for everyone. I might fool myself into thinking I can soften a group's attitude towards a particular individual, but once that individual leaves here, they're on their own. Similarly, when I'm up against a jerk, the target of my discourse is often everyone but the jerk. If I can soften an audience, I can harden one, too.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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I think when we stop splitting those hairs, most of us on this forum are as Madelaine describes.

Yep, there is at least one like Hanibal Lecter, and a few who will argue until they do get the last word. But these forums are quite tame, and generally helpful, full of mostly nice people, and a place that is good for a giggle too.

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13 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:
32 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Why should you be the judge of that?

and

32 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I can tell you I don't immediately assert my supposed right to be as direct as I damm well please.

Are not being harsh? 

They way you write them seems like you are angry at me.

Or am I just misunderstanding the intent of your words? That you are just being direct with me and I am being overly sensative and missing the point and reading stuff that doesn't exist into those words.

I see the way you want to respond to others as an abuse of power (judging others when you don't know their situation, feeling that your right to be 'direct' trumps the rights of someone hurting).
So yes, I feel angry when I see abuses of power.
I'm not sure, though, that you understand you have more power in such a situation (when another is hurting), and so I'm not that angry, and I don't think less of you.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I see the way you want to respond to others as an abuse of power (judging others when you don't know their situation, feeling that your right to be 'direct' trumps the rights of someone hurting).
So yes, I feel angry when I see abuses of power.
I'm not sure, though, that you understand you have more power in such a situation (when another is hurting), and so I'm not that angry, and I don't think less of you.

OK, so you are angry at me. Glad I wasn't misreading your meaning.

I actually notice it alot in your replies to me.

And we'll leave it there, no more replies from me to you. I don't want you feeling angry anymore. I don't want anyone feeling angry.

Edited by Callum Meriman

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Well, a dog forgets pretty fast. The cat is more likely to bide their time and pounce when least expected.

Also... catnip.

1936902168_download(74).jpeg.05745721fb7ff22e915e7d8e22af2e2e.jpeg

I need catnip, cause I'm shagged. I've had the 'flu all week, on top of being in a state of high disaster readiness due to the CATestrophic category 5 typhoon that hit the Philipines and Hong Kong and china. So many people died, it's heartbreaking.

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3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Getting angry at a cat accomplishes nothing. Now a dog, you could hurt their feelings

lol I had this one cat that would not behave! I would scream at her to stop shredding up the couch and she paid no mind.

But I had this one little guy who would actually slump down and look dejected if I raised my voice even a teeny bit to correct him, or even say 'no'. So I'd just gently detour him from some destructive behavior as he couldn't seem to take it.

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14 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

OK, so you are angry at me. Glad I wasn't misreading your meaning.

I actually notice it alot in your replies to me.

And we'll leave it there, no more replies from me to you. I don't want you feeling angry anymore. I don't want anyone feeling angry.

It's okay, I don't mind feeling angry. It might even give me some energy to get back inworld and finish a job..

* But do you truly feel I respond in anger to a lot of your posts, overall?

Edited by Luna Bliss

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