Racism

[Paul Hexem]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Oh, are we doing the whole "attempting to justify sharing of logs within Second Life" thing again?

You cannot share any conversation log anywhere within Second Life or this forum without the express consent of all parties involved, period. There is no discussion and Linden Lab has banned users for doing so.

See this post by Ceka above, read the text that was copied. If you think you've found a loophole ... Read it again. And again. And again. Then read the bold section of my post until it sinks in.

It never gets old. Everybody thinks that they're somehow exempt because they put a thing in their profile, or they made it part of their "sim rules".

[Qie Niangao]

There is in fact a new development discussed across the street suggesting that ongoing and egregious revelations of in-world content shared even outside Linden properties may cause the Lab to terminate SL accounts.

I've always wondered if the exception for non-LL-controlled systems might be a bit brittle, given the "any reason or no reason" language elsewhere in the ToS.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, DarkShadow666666 said:

Like I said before, I am NOT a staff of NCI. However, you are deluded if you think that one can expect any form of privacy when they type and/or speak in local. If that were the case, then if there is anyone that is within range of you if you were to speak or type in local would be violating TOS. Even YOU... If you are within range of me... If I use local or open voice... If you can see what I type in local or hear what I am saying on voice and it is not intended for your eyes or ears... Then that would mean that you are in violation as well.. when it comes to local chat, ppl need to use common sense.

I didn't say that you are a staff member of NCI.

I am not deluded in the slightest. Obviously, whatever is said in public can be heard by anyone within earshot, but that's not what this is about. What you can't do is copy and paste whatever is said in public, and, within an LL property, pass it to someone else, unless you have the permissions of all participants. You obviously haven't understood the ToS. What you can do within an LL property, is tell someone else that so-and-so said "such-and-such". What you can't do is copy, paste, and pass on the part of the conversation in which it was said, unless you remove the names, so that the person you are telling can't know who said it.

Incidentally, not all LOCAL CHAT is done in public.

 

[Solar Legion]

35 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

There is in fact a new development discussed across the street suggesting that ongoing and egregious revelations of in-world content shared even outside Linden properties may cause the Lab to terminate SL accounts.

I've always wondered if the exception for non-LL-controlled systems might be a bit brittle, given the "any reason or no reason" language elsewhere in the ToS.

Oh, that thread.

Yeah, no. If such were the case then a certain bloviating blogger would have gotten the axe already as well.

[Callum Meriman]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

If such were the case then a certain bloviating blogger would have gotten the axe already as well.

We can dream!

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

There is in fact a new development discussed across the street suggesting that ongoing and egregious revelations of in-world content shared even outside Linden properties may cause the Lab to terminate SL accounts.

I've always wondered if the exception for non-LL-controlled systems might be a bit brittle, given the "any reason or no reason" language elsewhere in the ToS.

It's the difference between the protection they give you and that you have a right to expect, vs the protection they give themselves.

The chatlog blurb is a guaranty for you the user that this will be honored by the lab policy.

The "any reason or no reason" blurb is that at the end of the day they don't have to justify why they don't want to deal with you anymore.

[Qie Niangao]

43 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Oh, that thread.

Yeah, no. If such were the case then a certain bloviating blogger would have gotten the axe already as well.

It may be that funneling a substantial flow of rent to the Lab can excuse a host of troubles.

In my experience, legal interpretation is generally more reliable from a realpolitik viewpoint, rather than Talmudic. The rule of law is all well and good, but it's folly to ignore who holds all the cards.

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

It may be that funneling a substantial flow of rent to the Lab can excuse a host of troubles.

In my experience, legal interpretation is generally more reliable from a realpolitik viewpoint, rather than Talmudic. The rule of law is all well and good, but it's folly to ignore who holds all the cards.

Or it may be that - like oh so many stories of similar type - that the banned person is trying to paint themself as a victim.

Considering the sort of site they ran? That is the far more likely outcome.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It may be that funneling a substantial flow of rent to the Lab can excuse a host of troubles.

In my experience, legal interpretation is generally more reliable from a realpolitik viewpoint, rather than Talmudic. The rule of law is all well and good, but it's folly to ignore who holds all the cards.

If you're talking about who I think you are, she does get her regular "reminder" of who is in charge it seem.

[Coffee Pancake]

5 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

Copying it into a blog, email, or Skype/Discord/other software IM is not against TOS.

But to be clear, dumping a private chat log (be it IM or a local conversation) onto a blog does make you pretty damn scummy. 

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

There is in fact a new development discussed across the street suggesting that ongoing and egregious revelations of in-world content shared even outside Linden properties may cause the Lab to terminate SL accounts.

I've always wondered if the exception for non-LL-controlled systems might be a bit brittle, given the "any reason or no reason" language elsewhere in the ToS.

I think it's more due to the verification and validation overhead.

[Saz Ninetails]

So Greg sending me IM chat logs of his conversation with others is a breach of TOS ok. Strange how the campus had several griefer attacks in the 48 hours after his banning and subsequent throwing toys out of the pram. Has been quiet for weeks. Let me ponder on that one a while.

[Alwin Alcott]

27 minutes ago, Saz Ninetails said:

 Strange how the campus had several griefer attacks in the 48 hours after his banning and subsequent throwing toys out of the pram. Has been quiet for weeks. Let me ponder on that one a while.

don't make insinuating accusations, even in a thread like this, without proof.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Alwin Alcott

[Saz Ninetails]

It wasn't an accusation, it was a musing. If I was accusing I would have said IT WAS HIM I KNOW IT

[Callum Meriman]

30 minutes ago, Saz Ninetails said:

So Greg sending me IM chat logs of his conversation with others is a breach of TOS ok. Strange how the campus had several griefer attacks in the 48 hours after his banning and subsequent throwing toys out of the pram. Has been quiet for weeks. Let me ponder on that one a while.

Doesn't matter, alleged griefer or not. Sharing chat logs is a TOS offense that can see you administratively banned from SecondLife.

[Saz Ninetails]

Linden labs have said themselves that yes sharing private messages is against TOS. Also remote logging of local chat is against TOS. Keeping chat logs of local is not an offence. I haven't shared chat logs at all. Greg has. He also told several people that he was going to grief the sim. For someone to pass that info on is not against TOS if they paraphrase. Even if someone does share IM logs LL very very rarely do anything about it.

 

We do seem to be getting away from the original point, which is that Greg got warned repeatedly for his behaviour, chose to argue and whine and then made threats to staff so his ban got lengthened twice. He then came here to try and garner sympathy and get others to attack his alleged attacker.

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Saz Ninetails said:

Linden labs have said themselves that yes sharing private messages is against TOS. Also remote logging of local chat is against TOS. Keeping chat logs of local is not an offence

*Citation needed.

L's  published position that sharing ANY chat logs captured in SL without the express consent of everyone involved, inside SL, is a clear ToS violation. They have been pretty unequivocal concerning this.

5 minutes ago, Saz Ninetails said:

We do seem to be getting away from the original point, which is that Greg got warned repeatedly for his behaviour, chose to argue and whine and then made threats to staff so his ban got lengthened twice. He then came here to try and garner sympathy and get others to attack his alleged attacker.

It's seeming to me, that you would rather we be attacking Gregory than attempting to correct your misinformed understanding of ToS. Is this correct? Are you advocating this thread "gets back to bashing on Greg" ?

Personally, I can't help feel this entire mess rests squarely on NCI's staffs shoulders, Gregory is new to Second Life and you should all know how to resolve an interpersonal conflict better than escalating to the point the disaffected party feels the need to question staff judgement, and then continue escalating till Gregory posts about it here!

AND THEN to add insult to injury, piling on and attempting to defend your actions with a few friends, managing only to demonstrate a clear and fundamental ignorance concerning the rules of the very platform the organisation you represent purports to provide education on.

Well done.

 

 

 

[Paul Hexem]

23 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

*Citation needed.

L's  published position that sharing ANY chat logs captured in SL without the express consent of everyone involved, inside SL, is a clear ToS violation. They have been pretty unequivocal concerning this.

It's seeming to me, that you would rather we be attacking Gregory than attempting to correct your misinformed understanding of ToS. Is this correct? Are you advocating this thread "gets back to bashing on Greg" ?

Personally, I can't help feel this entire mess rests squarely on NCI's staffs shoulders, Gregory is new to Second Life and you should all know how to resolve an interpersonal conflict better than escalating to the point the disaffected party feels the need to question staff judgement, and then continue escalating till Gregory posts about it here!

AND THEN to add insult to injury, piling on and attempting to defend your actions with a few friends, managing only to demonstrate a clear and fundamental ignorance concerning the rules of the very platform the organisation you represent purports to provide education on.

Well done.

 

 

 

Bam.

Like I said. The bar is set pretty low.

[Callum Meriman]

2 hours ago, Saz Ninetails said:

We do seem to be getting away from the original point, which is that Greg got warned repeatedly for his behaviour, chose to argue and whine and then made threats to staff so his ban got lengthened twice. He then came here to try and garner sympathy and get others to attack his alleged attacker.

Addressing the second point first - he didn't really get any sympathy, no? Most people told him to harden up, stop crying racism, and just move on.

And, as there are always two sides to any story: The attitude of NCI aligned people is clear from this thread, so it isn't a hard stretch to imagine a few officers rubbing him up the wrong way, and that to turn bad.

The best way to deal with a griefer is to ignore them as fast as possible. The NCI aligned people coming in here to talk about how they freely share chat logs, are just feeding it more.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Fionalein]

5 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Gregory is new to Second Life

While I agree with you otherwise - No he definatelly isn't ...

Edited May 29, 2018 by Fionalein

[Coby Foden]

I have seen in some dancing places (for example) a chat relay system being on.

Some chat relay systems relay public chat for all to see region wide.
Are those against TOS or not? Is that considered as "remotely monitoring" thing?

I'm just wondering because all people in the region might not be aware that chat is being relayed region wide.

[Paul Hexem]

4 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

I have seen in some dancing places (for example) a chat relay system being on.

Some chat relay systems relay public chat for all to see region wide.
Are those against TOS or not? Is that considered as "remotely monitoring" thing?

I'm just wondering because all people in the region might not be aware that chat is being relayed region wide.

As long as it's two way and obvious, it's probably okay. My guess is, it would depend on the Linden that responds to the AR, if one is filed.

[Coffee Pancake]

Those should probably be opt in.

[gregoryhao]

16 hours ago, Saz Ninetails said:

Linden labs have said themselves that yes sharing private messages is against TOS. Also remote logging of local chat is against TOS. Keeping chat logs of local is not an offence. I haven't shared chat logs at all. Greg has. He also told several people that he was going to grief the sim. For someone to pass that info on is not against TOS if they paraphrase. Even if someone does share IM logs LL very very rarely do anything about it.

 

We do seem to be getting away from the original point, which is that Greg got warned repeatedly for his behaviour, chose to argue and whine and then made threats to staff so his ban got lengthened twice. He then came here to try and garner sympathy and get others to attack his alleged attacker.

If you have evidence you can ban me, or report me so LL can ban me, i dont understnad how can you frame anyone as griefer without any evidence here in the forum, is this what you called freedom of speach or freedom of smear, this exactly prooved your attitude and how your helper mal practice your job.

I would say it is rather covenient to call others grifer or criminal, then look at the problem.

i think if we go through the record we can find a lot of your history, then others can also call you a griefer or troller?

Edited May 30, 2018 by gregoryhao

[DarkShadow666666]

16 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

If you have evidence you can ban me, or report me so LL can ban me, i dont understnad how can you frame anyone as griefer without any evidence here in the forum, is this what you called freedom of speach of freedom of smear, this exactly prooved your attitude and how your helper mal practice your job.

I would say it is rather covenient to call others grifer or criminal, then look at the problem.

i think if we go through the record we can find a lot of your history, then others can also call you a griefer or troller?

Dude... Seriously? You threatened to grief attack NCI right after you were ejected. Then shortly after the sim comes under attack.... You know what, you just need to drop all this mess and grow up... So you were ejected from the sim and group... Who cares.. grow up and move on. Stop trying to make ppl feel sry for you.

[gregoryhao]

2 hours ago, DarkShadow666666 said:

Dude... Seriously? You threatened to grief attack NCI right after you were ejected. Then shortly after the sim comes under attack.... You know what, you just need to drop all this mess and grow up... So you were ejected from the sim and group... Who cares.. grow up and move on. Stop trying to make ppl feel sry for you.

i never threat anyone that i am going to grief your sim, and you are the strange accont send me the website link and ask me to click, the website name is ddos,  and right after i click you said my system is wondw 8.1 I may need update soon, rest of the people here ask me to AR you, i think it is not so serious, now i maybe need to take some action.

NIC is a SIM teaching LSL over 10 years, a 7 months old account grief you? and post thread letter to you all? dont you think it too far stretched!!

Edited May 30, 2018 by gregoryhao