Should commercial ventures and estates in SL be allowed to discriminate?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

i never said the educatonal system i said government funded daycare for all

That's part of the education system, hon.  It's called "Pre-K".

[Theresa Tennyson]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

One day very very soon, whites will be in the minority in the US. And not through inter-breeding, either! And it will be interesting to see if the tables turn then, or not!

Who do you consider "white?" It wasn't that long ago that Catholics and Jews weren't considered part of the "white" power structure. The KKK opposed Al Smith as a Democratic candiate in 1924 because he was Catholic.

I generally don't like the fashion of dividing people into groups, "white" and "People of Color", and declaring each group to be homogenous. I'm also dubious of the white people who are enthusiastically "multicultural." The current "white" population is a combination of cultures that eventually blended so "white" people speak English, put up Christmas trees (German), eat spaghetti (Italian) and get drunk on St. Patrick's Day (Irish.) If we quarantine off "non-white" cultures instead of allowing them to blend with the mainstream culture we'll eventually have groups of other separate cultures that eventually outnumber the "white" population, but guess what group will remain a plurality and therefore keep most of the power? 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:

Who do you consider "white?" It wasn't that long ago that Catholics and Jews weren't considered part of the "white" power structure. The KKK opposed Al Smith as a Democratic candiate in 1924 because he was Catholic.

I generally don't like the fashion of dividing people into groups, "white" and "People of Color", and declaring each group to be homogenous. I'm also dubious of the white people who are enthusiastically "multicultural." The current "white" population is a combination of cultures that eventually blended so "white" people speak English, put up Christmas trees (German), eat spaghetti (Italian) and get drunk on St. Patrick's Day (Irish.) If we quarantine off "non-white" cultures instead of allowing them to blend with the mainstream culture we'll eventually have groups of other separate cultures that eventually outnumber the "white" population, but guess what group will remain a plurality and therefore keep most of the power? 

I'm with you. I was referring to the fact that Hispanic people will outnumber non-Hispanic people in the US. "White" is whatever you want it to be, unfortunately. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I was asked to leave a meeting for black women at a music festival, and while I felt awkward having to get up and leave in front of a large room of people, I took it as a learning experience - a chance to experience what it felt like to be excluded on the basis of race.

why were you at the meeting if you weren't black?

[Pamela Galli]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I want a world: Free of white prejudice, free of black prejudice, free of gay prejudice, free of straight prejudice, free of male prejudice, free of female prejudice, free of age prejudice, free of religious prejudice..I could go on.  For her to assume "we" only want a world free of "white prejudice" is wrong. So, thanks for catching this.

I doubt any of us will live to see the day that racism disappears. Certainly not in a racially hyper conscious place such as USA. In any case, all this (waves hand around) is about some people’s desire to preserve white privilege. As far as I am concerned, people can be racist all they want as long as they do not use law to preserve white privilege (or any other that might arise). That we might live to see.

Bill Moyers talking about LBJ (a southerner and Texan, btw):

We were in Tennessee. During the motorcade, he spotted some ugly racial epithets scrawled on signs. Late that night in the hotel, when the local dignitaries had finished the last bottles of bourbon and branch water and departed, he started talking about those signs. “I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it,” he said. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Pamela Galli

[Klytyna]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is how religion is MISused. Not how religion is SUPPOSED to be used. (Except for the places where you are right, like in the ancient scriptures where God told people to KILL KILL KILL THEM ALL!)

No, that's how religion is...

I'm always amused when, for example Monotheists, talk of 'religious tolerance'. Why? Because all monotheist religions are by definition, intolerant, if you tolerate an 'enemy religion' you are worshiping wrong.

Your cult is good and right and has the one true skydaddy, and all the others are skydaddyless heathens, doomed for all Eternity, whose false cults must be expunged with holy fire and sword!

Realistically, the only possible world without Religious Intolerance, is a world without Religion, but any attempt to eradicate the disease that is Religion is seen as Religious Intolerance, so its a Catch-22 No-Win situation, right?

Oh and you can't say that those usages are the misuse of Religion, because thats YOUR Religiously Intolerant view of THEIR Religions.

Ultimately, the concept of a "World without Intolerance" is a pathetic delusion, as the only way to achieve it is to ensure a world without people.

Smart money would instead bet on selecting which intolerances we can all live with, and which we can't
 

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm with you. I was referring to the fact that Hispanic people will outnumber non-Hispanic people in the US. "White" is whatever you want it to be, unfortunately. 

That's a big part of my point. Why are Hispanic people not "white" but Italians, who share many appearance and some cultural qualities, are?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

why were you at the meeting if you weren't black?

Have you heard of "allies"? I am not Transgered, but I go to Trans meetings because I am an "ally". 

My company allows men to go to the "Women's" Employee Resource Group meetings because they are "allies".

Same thing with the LGBT ERG, straight "allies" are allowed.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Love Zhaoying

[Nalytha]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

why were you at the meeting if you weren't black?

This reminds me of a video clip I saw recently of a white woman trying to join a BLM protest with her mixed child. She was also told to leave because she was white. 

It's a really interesting dynamic ... this line between being an "ally" and being the problem. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Why are Hispanic people not "white" but Italians, who share many appearance and some cultural qualities, are?

The census forms, they are a-changin'.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

No, that's how religion is...

I'm always amused when, for example Monotheists, talk of 'religious tolerance'. Why? Because all monotheist religions are by definition, intolerant, if you tolerate an 'enemy religion' you are worshiping wrong.

Your cult is good and right and has the one true skydaddy, and all the others are skydaddyless heathens, doomed for all Eternity, whose false cults must be expunged with holy fire and sword!

Realistically, the only possible world without Religious Intolerance, is a world without Religion, but any attempt to eradicate the disease that is Religion is seen as Religious Intolerance, so its a Catch-22 No-Win situation, right?

Oh and you can't say that those usages are the misuse of Religion, because thats YOUR Religiously Intolerant view of THEIR Religions.

Ultimately, the concept of a "World without Intolerance" is a pathetic delusion, as the only way to achieve it is to ensure a world without people.

Smart money would instead bet on selecting which intolerances we can all live with, and which we can't

I guess you don't know many ecumenical multi-faith people. I am one (both Christian and Hindu). I know that a lot of Hindu saints also accepted other faiths.

Your blanket statements aren't just wrong, they are depressing. 

[Klytyna]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I am one (both Christian and Hindu).

So how does that work... You pray to the One True God as a Monotheist on Sundays, and sit through sermons about the dangers of Heathen polytheist devil cults, then spend the rest of the week praying to the assorted pagan deities...

A Part Time Christian?

Or do you claim that all those Hindu deities are in fact actually Jesus, playing charades with a box of joke shop novelty costumes?

Pathetic pseudo intellectual delusions of Ecumenical superiority. Now THAT is depressing, you follow two mutually exclusive religions, and get them both wrong.
 

[Ceka Cianci]

Welcome to the merchants section everybody..

Remember in this section,No shirt,No shoes,No service.

Now you have a wonderful  beautiful day, from all of us here at the merchants section

 

[Paul Hexem]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

and Gadget said:

"To be fair, the whole "forced customers" thing is one of those lose/lose situations.

Without a law like this, minorties and the like may suffer. With a law like this, many innocent business owners suffer."

The fact that you have equated the suffering of "minorities and the like" with "many innocent business owners" demonstrates the crux of the problem -- there is no empathy or very little awareness on your parts that the amount of suffering by minorities is so much greater than what a business owner would experience.

Being considered a 2nd class citizen and not worthy of the same rights as others is a pain that causes immense damage to those targeted. It's the constant, unrelenting message of 'you are bad for who you are, you are not worthy of the respect others are given'. Feeling excluded causes poor self-esteem, unfulfilled potential, and even the terror of living life in fear -- all because one is simply born a certain way (a person of color, gay, disabled).
Really, you guys need to read some books, watch some movies -- whatever it takes to get a sense of how the marginalized people in a society experience life. I have a feeling that if some empathy really sunk in you would feel stupid for complaining about baking a freaking cake for someone.

So you're saying it's okay if the people you don't like suffer, as long as the ones you do like don't have to? Nice of you.

I was making the point that the situation is unfortunate that it exists at all, because someone loses no matter what we do.

[Love Zhaoying]

"When arguing with a 3 year-old, you have to lower yourself to a 3 year-old's level."

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

So how does that work... You pray to the One True God as a Monotheist on Sundays, and sit through sermons about the dangers of Heathen polytheist devil cults, then spend the rest of the week praying to the assorted pagan deities...

A Part Time Christian?

Or do you claim that all those Hindu deities are in fact actually Jesus, playing charades with a box of joke shop novelty costumes?

Pathetic pseudo intellectual delusions of Ecumenical superiority. Now THAT is depressing, you follow two mutually exclusive religions, and get them both wrong.
 

Some Hindus maintain that Jesus was an avatar of Vishnu, who has a long history of "playing charades with a box of joke shop novelty costumes."

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

So how does that work... You pray to the One True God as a Monotheist on Sundays, and sit through sermons about the dangers of Heathen polytheist devil cults, then spend the rest of the week praying to the assorted pagan deities...

A Part Time Christian?

Or do you claim that all those Hindu deities are in fact actually Jesus, playing charades with a box of joke shop novelty costumes?

Pathetic pseudo intellectual delusions of Ecumenical superiority. Now THAT is depressing, you follow two mutually exclusive religions, and get them both wrong.

I'm certain you would try to argue with me if I explained it to you. Your insults are directly in line with most of your posts on this forum. I think that I've had enough arguing with 3 year-olds for one day.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Some Hindus maintain that Jesus was an avatar of Vishnu, who has a long history of "playing charades with a box of joke shop novelty costumes."

Also, that same "Christ Consciousness" aka the "Holy Spirit" is the same between ALL religions.  There is only one Spirit, there is only one Presence. You get the picture.

[Tari Landar]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

"When arguing with a 3 year-old, you have to lower yourself to a 3 year-old's level."

3 year olds are pretty intelligent lil creatures! Even they know when arguing their perceived position may be an exercise in futility...sometimes they listen to that still small voice of reasoning  

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Tari Landar said:

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

"When arguing with a 3 year-old, you have to lower yourself to a 3 year-old's level."

3 year olds are pretty intelligent lil creatures! Even they know when arguing their perceived position may be an exercise in futility...sometimes they listen to that still small voice of reasoning  

Perhaps "two year-old's" would have been more appropriate.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Also, that same "Christ Consciousness" aka the "Holy Spirit" is the same between ALL religions.  There is only one Spirit, there is only one Presence. You get the picture.

Is it a Yoga type of Hinduism?  I love Yoga...

[Klytyna]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Also, that same "Christ Consciousness" aka the "Holy Spirit" is the same between ALL religions.  There is only one Spirit, there is only one Presence. You get the picture.

Thats a very sweeping statement... ALL religions have a shared belief in a monotheistic concept do they? I suspect historically, many thousands of polytheistic believers would think you were talking out of your arse.

Like I said, that whole pseudo intellectual thing seems to be going on, the one where you talk crap and claim its Universal Crap shared by ALL TRUE BELIEVERS in EVERYTHING, when it's just not so.
 

[Aethelwine]

28 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

well strictly speaking it wasnt because they were gay im sure they made many many cakes for gay customers.

the issue was that they wanted a gay wedding cake and the bake shop owner believed that marriage was a union between a man and a woman so he refused because he felt he'd be contributing towards something he was morally opposed to.

 

That is not a moral position, arguably a religious one... But unless he refuses to do wedding cakes for any other religions than the narrowly conceived mean minded version of Christianity he claims then he is also a hypocrite. As I understand it he has no problem making cakes for any other religions and for atheists. He is using religion as a fig leaf to excuse his illegal discriminatory hateful practices.

If he only made cakes for his church he might have an argument, but he doesn't 

[Luna Bliss]

29 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I was asked to leave a meeting for black women at a music festival, and while I felt awkward having to get up and leave in front of a large room of people, I took it as a learning experience - a chance to experience what it felt like to be excluded on the basis of race.

why were you at the meeting if you weren't black?

Conference rooms at festivals get used by various groups in succession, and I had just attended a women's songwriting session taught by a black woman. I'd been sitting there talking to a couple of black women songwriters as the meeting ended and didn't notice the next group had filtered in, which was a support group for black women only.

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

and Gadget said:

"To be fair, the whole "forced customers" thing is one of those lose/lose situations.

Without a law like this, minorties and the like may suffer. With a law like this, many innocent business owners suffer."

The fact that you have equated the suffering of "minorities and the like" with "many innocent business owners" demonstrates the crux of the problem -- there is no empathy or very little awareness on your parts that the amount of suffering by minorities is so much greater than what a business owner would experience.

Being considered a 2nd class citizen and not worthy of the same rights as others is a pain that causes immense damage to those targeted. It's the constant, unrelenting message of 'you are bad for who you are, you are not worthy of the respect others are given'. Feeling excluded causes poor self-esteem, unfulfilled potential, and even the terror of living life in fear -- all because one is simply born a certain way (a person of color, gay, disabled).
Really, you guys need to read some books, watch some movies -- whatever it takes to get a sense of how the marginalized people in a society experience life. I have a feeling that if some empathy really sunk in you would feel stupid for complaining about baking a freaking cake for someone.

So you're saying it's okay if the people you don't like suffer, as long as the ones you do like don't have to? Nice of you.

I was making the point that the situation is unfortunate that it exists at all, because someone loses no matter what we do.

You totally misinterpreted my point -- of course I don't ONLY care about the suffering of people I like.

The point I was making is that there are DEGREES of suffering, and so we must favor the group that has suffered the most if we must choose.