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Net neutrality

sirhc DeSantis

By sirhc DeSantis,
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Innula Zenovka

Innula Zenovka

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The argument "The USA do this, so we should, too" doesn't sound at all convincing to foreign ears, and didn't even during administrations that were even more highly regarded in foreign capitals than is the present one.

Most industrialised countries, for example, take a very different approach to data protection from that of the USA,  a completely different approach to GM foods, a completely different approach to health care provision, a completely different approach to capital punishment and (of course) a completely different approach to gun control.     I don't see why anyone would suddenly decide they wanted to emulate the USA when it came to net neutrality simply because the USA were doing it one particular way.

 

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KanryDrago

KanryDrago

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23 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

The argument "The USA do this, so we should, too" doesn't sound at all convincing to foreign ears, and didn't even during administrations that were even more highly regarded in foreign capitals than is the present one.

Most industrialised countries, for example, take a very different approach to data protection from that of the USA,  a completely different approach to GM foods, a completely different approach to health care provision, a completely different approach to capital punishment and (of course) a completely different approach to gun control.     I don't see why anyone would suddenly decide they wanted to emulate the USA when it came to net neutrality simply because the USA were doing it one particular way.

 

I didn't say governments would I said that isp's would lobby for it and lets face it money always wins and companies get bad laws passed all the time via donations to political parties. Especially if initially there isn't much short term change in the USA. They would point at that then say "See it didnt result in what campaigners claimed it would"

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Aislin Ceawlin

Aislin Ceawlin

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Being an American, this whole thing has me really upset. If you are American, there is still time to make your voices heard. One way is to go to gofccyourself.com which will take you directly to the Federal Communications Commission page (the link was purchased by John Oliver to circumvent the difficult process to find the page this links to), once there, click "express" then follow the directions. MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!  

http://gofccyourself.com

Edited by Aislin Ceawlin
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Tari Landar

Tari Landar

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Posted

There are probably lots reasons why you should care, well in others' opinions anyway, but not necessarily because it will affect you directly,  but because it will affect a lot of others and that may indirectly affect you.

Take SL for example, the vast majority of residents, I believe(someone correct me if I am wrong) still reside or at least login from the US. So if something negatively affects a very large portion of one's audience it stands to reason that one should care, at least a little, does it not? So, even if individual residents don't give a rat's left nut...LL should (and LL IS a US based company, so..by trickle down, the rest of y'all should probably care a bit too, if something negatively affects LL). 

The same can be said about countless other topics too. Just because something doesn't have a direct negative impact on me, doesn't mean that I simply choose not to care about it. I have room to care and have concerns for folks all over the globe. I care about people that live in other countries who, while they may have universal health care, have a difficult time(even more so at times than we do in the US) getting proper treatments. Whether or not their ability to get proper medical care affects me, is irrelevant...it affects THEM in a negative way.and I care about that. I care about people that live in places around the globe which internet access is strictly controlled(yes, even if they CAN find a way to circumvent those issues). It doesn't directly affect me, in the least...but it affects them, a lot, and that bothers me..and I sure as hell don't want to join their ranks. Guess I'm just weird..I care about all kinds of things that have no direct(usually even no indirect) effect on me. 

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Ceka Cianci

Ceka Cianci

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On 11/23/2017 at 11:19 AM, sirhc DeSantis said:

As users/residents of SL who do not reside in the - place across the water should we care?

Checked my local ISPs (all national) and I have 4 I can choose.

Two of which recently wired us up for no charge.

So... should we care?

 

 

Big greedy corporations really have no respect for borders..I would say,research the companies history to see if there are any ties in like buyouts and things like that..If there are,then yea,I'd worry.

These companies are making billions upon billions and for some reason feel the need to increase those billions at whoever's expense..

 

Four companies become two,two become one.. Then they don't have to be so loving and sweet anymore..

 

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Innula Zenovka

Innula Zenovka

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3 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

 

Big greedy corporations really have no respect for borders..I would say,research the companies history to see if there are any ties in like buyouts and things like that..If there are,then yea,I'd worry.

These companies are making billions upon billions and for some reason feel the need to increase those billions at whoever's expense..

 

Four companies become two,two become one.. Then they don't have to be so loving and sweet anymore..

 

Yes, but the US ISPs don't do business in the UK (or anywhere in Europe, as far as I know) and if they did they'd encounter a completely different commercial environment, both in terms of regulation and competition.    In the UK, for example,  broadband of one sort or another is available just about everywhere.  There are some localised issues in some country areas, but the vast majority of UK residents (>99%) live in areas with access to broadband (download speed >=10Mbit/s), and about 89% of premises in the UK have access to superfast broadband (defined as >30 Mbit/s) if they want it.

I don't have the exact figures to hand but certainly the vast majority of residential broadband customers can choose between three or four nationally competing ISPs, so if I'm not happy with my ISP, there's plenty of other companies anxious for my business when my contract comes up for renewal each year.  This a marked contrast, I think, to the position in most of the USA where I think some 40-50% of households with access to the internet have no choice of supplier, and is also, I think, the reason we apparently pay far less for our broadband than do many people in the US.    For example, I pay the equivalent of about $65 a month for a basic landline, cable TV and broadband service.   They've just given me a free speed upgrade as a loyalty bonus so my download rate is 100 Mbit/s; I think I'm actually paying for 50 Mbit/s, the entry-level package.    

If Comcast or Verizon tried to set up in the UK, that's the standard they'd have to meet or the competition would eat them alive, regardless of the regulatory regime.

So I'm not too worried that bad practice by US ISPs is going to spread across the Atlantic, since I think ISPs would need a near-monopoly in order to get away with it, regardless of the regulatory regime.   I am, though, a bit confused about what -- if anything -- the proposed changes in the USA are likely to do to my connection to LL's servers.      There are, as I understand it,  two sides to the equation -- what US households may have to pay to receive broadband and the sort of service they may receive, and what US content suppliers, be they LL, Amazon or YouTube, have to pay to send their online material out to customers.   

The latter half of the equation, and how it's likely to affect non-US customers like me, is what I'm concerned about. 

    

 

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Ceka Cianci

Ceka Cianci

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1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Yes, but the US ISPs don't do business in the UK (or anywhere in Europe, as far as I know) and if they did they'd encounter a completely different commercial environment, both in terms of regulation and competition.    In the UK, for example,  broadband of one sort or another is available just about everywhere.  There are some localised issues in some country areas, but the vast majority of UK residents (>99%) live in areas with access to broadband (download speed >=10Mbit/s), and about 89% of premises in the UK have access to superfast broadband (defined as >30 Mbit/s) if they want it.

I don't have the exact figures to hand but certainly the vast majority of residential broadband customers can choose between three or four nationally competing ISPs, so if I'm not happy with my ISP, there's plenty of other companies anxious for my business when my contract comes up for renewal each year.  This a marked contrast, I think, to the position in most of the USA where I think some 40-50% of households with access to the internet have no choice of supplier, and is also, I think, the reason we apparently pay far less for our broadband than do many people in the US.    For example, I pay the equivalent of about $65 a month for a basic landline, cable TV and broadband service.   They've just given me a free speed upgrade as a loyalty bonus so my download rate is 100 Mbit/s; I think I'm actually paying for 50 Mbit/s, the entry-level package.    

If Comcast or Verizon tried to set up in the UK, that's the standard they'd have to meet or the competition would eat them alive, regardless of the regulatory regime.

So I'm not too worried that bad practice by US ISPs is going to spread across the Atlantic, since I think ISPs would need a near-monopoly in order to get away with it, regardless of the regulatory regime.   I am, though, a bit confused about what -- if anything -- the proposed changes in the USA are likely to do to my connection to LL's servers.      There are, as I understand it,  two sides to the equation -- what US households may have to pay to receive broadband and the sort of service they may receive, and what US content suppliers, be they LL, Amazon or YouTube, have to pay to send their online material out to customers.   

The latter half of the equation, and how it's likely to affect non-US customers like me, is what I'm concerned about. 

    

 

I'm not sure where they are from really..I just know that there are a lot of companies besides ISP that will be adjusting..

We all could be getting charged in places that we were not before..

my netflix is already up to about 11.00 a month now with it's new increase..

I pay 66.00 for my ISP for their best package..That's really not too bad of a price..It's all those other places that will be asking for money now is what I'm worried about..

Plus I see two worlds,the one where we think things are controlled, and the one where things are really controlled..

 

Times gonna tell after it happens..

In the U.S. it's pretty much gonna happen for sure..

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ChinRey

ChinRey

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

The latter half of the equation, and how it's likely to affect non-US customers like me, is what I'm concerned about.

Hopefully not too much. Linden Lab is moving everything they can move out on the cloud. There are several disadvantages too to that of course but art least it means European users can worry less about the limitations of the US internet.

But reading this thread makes me feel guilty. Yesterday I was called up - again - by somebody who wanted to sell me a better and cheaper broadband connection and I just hung up on her. Now I realize that annoying as they are, those telephone sales calls are a small price to pay for the privilege of having a choice.

Edited by ChinRey
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Max Nova

Max Nova

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I think anything the US does now with their current administration will make other countries run in the other direction. The only policy that has come from the US in the past year is undoing all the previous administration did and things to hurt the country and the world.

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bigmoe Whitfield

bigmoe Whitfield

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why should you care,  let me put it this way,  LL servers reside in us/Arizona,  those backbones that provide access to the data center,  will want a chunk of change to access it from the guys they sell it too,  those guys being the isp's whom hold the fiber that connects outside the datacenter want a chunk from others that want access,  so this goes on and on, each isp having to pay up to access each other.   THEN comes the isp's from the EU,  oh look they have to pay to access each link, each node,  guess whoms gonna get affected by that,  people not even based in the US.  this is not going to be pretty, it will be very petty though.

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Nova Convair

Nova Convair

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I just read an article about the application about net neutrality.
Congrats - definitely the worst case. As a side effect privacy protection will no longer exist. (by EU standards)

We have to see what comes out but most probable for the americans it will become more expensive for less internet. Maybe even cheaper for much less internet. Many american companies will need to run servers in the EU. I personally will surely not pay an american isp for stuff so the americans may become more isolated.
SL? We'll see about - if the CDN becomes more expensive that may have an effect on LL.

That all will surely take a while and maybe not result in the worst possible - but I believe in the worst case. :) 

If access to american services is really affected that is maybe good for the EU. It will result in building more own infrastructure and services.

Edited by Nova Convair
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