Why do resis like realism so much?

[Kate Amdahl]

In another discussion, Vanilla Sunsets said this:

"Back when SL started the residents wanted their world to be as different for RL as it could be. Remember we all had fantastic pink and purple prim hair...? We created things that were literally out of this world (all we had were basic prims). The possibilities were endless! Today we want SL to be a very realistic world, as much as RL as it can be."

What do you think about that? Have we gotten more realistic? If so, why? Were the early days of Second Life populated more by cutitng-edge experimental people? Or did we always want as much realism as possible and are just grabbing it as technologies like Windlight and mesh and so on made it more possible?

The Lindens always seem to have imagined that Second Life was for wild experimentation with reality, but most resis I meet -- including me! -- seem more interested in mostly-realistic experiences: houses and beaches, surfing, sailing, vehicles, dance clubs, beautiful clothes, flirting, socializing, sex, conversation, and all the rest. Many of our houses have bathrooms and kitchens, for instance, which are not really useful in Second Life except for role play and to provide a little variety in our environments.

[VanillaSunsets]

I am also very curious as I toyed with the idea of the parallels between SL and RL, human behaviour and what ppl do when they can build a "reality". What do ppl do when there are no limits. Looking at SL I am starting to think that ppl need those limits, if not provided by others, authorities or for some ppl a God... we create our own limits and are back where we started. trying to escape all these limits. This all sounds very heavy and deep but it also goes for how we look, what we want to look at, how we create our environment, houses and nature in SL. 

[Qie Niangao]

I think "limits" is completely the wrong way to think about this. Rather, it's about having a frame of reference to which any meaning can associate. Particularly suitable to the SL medium is content that uses the experience of feeling spatial immersion ("in / at / of a recognizable place") to enhance social interaction.

Many LEA installations, though fine bits of 3D space manipulation, are too abstract to even suggest a social context. To me, there's more interpersonal significance to a totally non-functional SL kitchen or bathroom space -- or, my favourite example, a train platform -- than can be found on all the LEA sims.

This isn't a preference for representational art, but it's about being able to recognize enough simulated RL context to even suggest a reason to interact about it. Otherwise, the content could as well be a sterile construction in the creator's favorite 3D modelling tool.

[Freya Mokusei]

---

VanillaSunsets wrote:

What do ppl do when there are no limits. Looking at SL I am starting to think that ppl need those limits, if not provided by others, authorities or for some ppl a God

---

I playfully disagree. I mean, I understand your perspective, I just think it's more nuanced than that. Peer pressure and social conformity applies to humans whether we're online or offline, whether we look like unicorns or amoebas or Kardashian's.

It doesn't surprise me that people invent new ways to enforce conformity in online spaces, of which the striving for 'realism' is one symptom. To my eyes it's not realism, but hyperrealism - looking at expressions of gender in SL, the women often strive to be hyperfeminine (thin/frail, tiny feet, tanned, symmetrical, bust/butt-heavy), and the men often strive to be hypermasculine (muscled, wide shoulders, tanned, tall). Pick any type of expression you like, you'll probably find that SL exhibits it in a way that's more like reality on steroids. It's realism if E! ran the world.

I don't know why many folks choose that path. I understand in-group psychology is a strong part of it, but it all seems very boring to me, and I choose not to participate. But one thing it's allowed me to do is practice my own expression of social conformity - rebellion. I've never been good with authority, and SL has taught me that there isn't really any such thing to be worried about. After a decade of eschewing social norms in SL, I'm beginning to realise that social norms in RL are just as silly. Lately I've been massively enjoying experimenting with putting into practice all the things I've learnt about myself in SL, through orienting myself against 'norms' of all varieties.

So there's my answer - people don't like realism, they like conformity - it's comfortable, and you can identify the 'others' to be excluded very easily - whether they're not-normals or just not-good-enoughs. I like to conform by non-conforming. And so it goes.

 

[Kate Amdahl]

Adding to the questions, for me, is my own behavior with wings. I adopted wings and wore one pair or another out of the dozens and dozens I own constantly since very early in my Second Life until fairly recently. Now I wear them sometimes, and sometimes not. I used to wonder why everyone didn't wear wings: they embody the freedom of flight, personal power and joy! Now I seem to be more interested in making sure I don't accidentally whack people with them. I don't feel any less joy in my Second Life existence, and I don't think it's even changed very much, but I have to wonder what is changing my attitude toward wings.

[Vivienne Schell]

I don´t have a simple answer to your question. Who knows why only a very few people become  artists who create visual abstractions of reality which half of the remaining 99 percent can enjoy (like cubism)? And even art was not much more than a very "realistic" reflection or interpretation of the "world" for a long time (see expressionism vs. impressionism).

Anyways, I doubt that Second Life in 2005/2006 was kind of abstract modern art because it was the intention of it´s residents to paint a midern art picture. It´s appearance was born out the fact that most residents failed to paint the picture they wanted to paint. For some reasons. The first "sex bed" was a prim with a static animation someone managed to upload, which was pretty cool at that time and certainly a piece of art by all means. But it was supposed to be a sex bed, not dali.

[Syo Emerald]

Why would someone say "resis"? :smileyfrustrated:

[Kate Amdahl]

Because it's short and friendly. Why, apart from formal communications, wouldn't someone say "resis"? Too colloquial? Too cute?

[VanillaSunsets]

I had wings too, when I look back I find that me escaping into fantasy often was the same times I need the escape from RL. Guess I needed to create some safe area, or just take some distance. But maybe that is just a coincidence..

EDIT: Not saying that residents that wear wing are all escaping RL, it is my personal view

[VanillaSunsets]

I can see your point 

 

 

 

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

VanillaSunsets wrote:

I am also very curious as I toyed with the idea of the parallels between SL and RL, human behaviour and what ppl do when they can build a "reality". What do ppl do when there are no limits. Looking at SL I am starting to think that ppl need those limits, if not provided by others, authorities or for some ppl a God... we create our own limits and are back where we started. trying to escape all these limits. This all sounds very heavy and deep but it also goes for how we look, what we want to look at, how we create our environment, houses and nature in SL. 

---

Part of the reason some people in Second LIfe try to simulate a reality is to remove limits in their everyday lives. I'm fairly content in my real life but there are certain things I'm interested in that for reasons of time, money and training I can't do in real life. I can't afford a rambling house on the water; I don't have the time, money and patience to own a sailboat, airplane or horse. What's more, I really don't want to find myself doing the things I'd need to make that kind of money and finding myself a slave to my hobbies.

In Second Life, though, I can play with all of these things for a negligible cost, at my leisure and safe from the consequences of my clumsiness and lack of focus.

At first I told new people they could do "anything they could do in real life" here, but I eventually realized the real draw would be to do "anything they can't do in real life." I'm sure that a recreational sailor would find a SL boat a pale imitation of the real boat they own and use regularly, but I once read a notecard describing someone meeting an avid Second Life sailor who at first seemed oddly uncommunicative, but they eventually learned that in real life he had been a sailor but developed physical problems that left him barely able to type, much less sail in real life. However, he had sufficient control to use a boat in Second Life and re-live his sailing days that way.

I also used to visit a very nice outdoor region owned by a Japanese gentleman who also ran a store there, but the prices on the items were obviously far less than he'd charge if he was trying to run a business (most things were L$10 for nicely made, fairly complex items.) After thinking about it, though, I imagined that for the average Japanese person, living in a very crowded country, just having a big open outdoor area they could walk around in any time they wanted would be almost a fantasy.

[VanillaSunsets]

Nicely put! I find it very interesting to see ppl's points of view on this subject and I find myself finding new angles to look at it. This is very nice

[Rhonda Huntress]

---

Kate Amdahl wrote:

Because it's short and friendly. Why, apart from formal communications, 

wouldn't

someone say "resis"? Too colloquial? Too cute?

---

What does it mean?

[VanillaSunsets]

I read your post again (and again) coz I find it interesting. I totally can find myself in what you are saying, I was there at 1 point, I think we have all been. I have used RL aspects in SL, like for example an SL family, social connections, friends. I have land, I build a house and a garden, well, ok. it serves as a store nowadays. All are available in SL if we want. We mimic RL and that seems only natural. BUT, I also play Entropia Universe, even longer then I have played SL. There we do not get to choose how our world looks lile, well... not yet. We do not get to build our own homes nor our gardens. Still there is social interactions. There are societies that are much alike SL groups and this works too. So why do we, in SL, pick the RL world as an example. Sure, there are many fantacy themed sims, I must have seen them all. (If you have any new, cool ones, let me know) But the majority of ppl still keep coming back to the sims that mimic RL, to the ppl that mimic RL, to events that sell "better then RL,, but close to it" items? If you take a few steps back... sure, some are the exception to the rule, in SL maybe more then some, but in general... ppl choose RL mimics over VR freedom. So I wonder... ;P

[Kate Amdahl]

Oh! It's short for "residents." Sort of "citizens of Second Life." I use it a lot, and some of my friends do as well, but I guess I don't know how widespread it really is.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

My twin brother grew his wings shortly after we hatched in 2009. He had a two month head start on me, but mine never appeared and the prosthetic ones never felt right. It seems that wings are a boy thing in our family. Dad was a fairy too and Mum had her hands full.

I like realism because it can be subverted.

[VanillaSunsets]

That's nice, hihi. :matte-motes-big-grin:

[SabaothMastema]

For me the drive for realism is encountered in the scifi rp community. Its there because people want to get as close as possible to their fantasy as they can.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

People strive to have things in SL they can't in RL.  That could be living in the home of their dreams in a place of their dreams and have expensive toys.  They also like to look like they want to and dress as they want to without the pressure to conform to RL standards.  

Roll play is another aspect of this for those that want to experience a fantasy. 

Both have in common the dream of how they want to live and who they want to be, whether it's realism or impossible things in RL.

[JohnyGlide]

I work 14 hours a day, that leaves me zero time to have a social life and I work grave yard shifts,  I came to Second Life to have a social life and meet real people.    sure people want to play as their avatar, that's fine.  but still when I'm actually trying to be a friend do not be all butthurt when I ask basic questions,  I do not do this rp well without knowing a few specifics about the person behind the avatar.   so I think I honestly perfer if people were themselves and not always hiding behind an avatar, let me know you, let me know who I'm really dealing with.  

[Solaria Goldshark]

---

Kate Amdahl wrote:

In another discussion, Vanilla Sunsets said this:

"Back when SL started the residents wanted their world to be as different for RL as it could be. Remember we all had fantastic pink and purple prim hair...? We created things that were literally out of this world (all we had were basic prims). The possibilities were endless! Today we want SL to be a very realistic world, as much as RL as it can be."

What do you think about that? Have we gotten more realistic? If so, why? Were the early days of Second Life populated more by cutitng-edge experimental people? Or did we always want as much realism as possible and are just grabbing it as technologies like Windlight and mesh and so on made it more possible?

The Lindens always seem to have imagined that Second Life was for wild experimentation with reality, but most resis I meet -- including me! -- seem more interested in mostly-realistic experiences: houses and beaches, surfing, sailing, vehicles, dance clubs, beautiful clothes, flirting, socializing, sex, conversation, and all the rest. Many of our houses have bathrooms and kitchens, for instance, which are not really useful in Second Life except for role play and to provide a little variety in our environments.

---

...but I would ask this:  Given what we know so far, how much more "cutting edge" is left to explore in this platform?

At this point lets just shut down the world, plug right in, don the virtual goggles, stick your veins with a protein/carbohydrate stream, kick back in your chair and let the world wash you right out of life.

The trend toward realism doesn't seem such a bad thing...whatever the trend at the moment seems to be, it seems to me to be the vehicle that allows people to interact with each other and have some fun.

I always like to keep in mind that all the remarkable trends and advancements in SL have been forged in the imaginations of creators who had visions of what could make this experience great.

Every now and again take the time to say "thank you".

[Phil Deakins]

Could the answer be because, until user-created mesh arrived, RL-realistic objects couldn't be made anywhere near as well as they can be made post mesh, so, fantastical things were made instead. After all fantastical things must look like real fantastical things.

Having said that, I can't say that, in my 10 years, I've noticed a change from fantasy stuff to realistic stuff. I used to get around much more in my early years than I do now, but it all still looks the same to me. Things back then generally emulated RL realities. There were always some fantasy things and I don't think that's changed.

[Bree Giffen]

I think the trend towards realism is partly due to the much smaller base of creators. The spontaneous creativiy that came from SL's simple creation tools has been stifled. Making things is harder and those who can choose realism. Why? Maybe it sells better.

[Qie Niangao]

There's quite a spread of different kinds of "realism" being discussed in this thread, even including conversational preferences for "real life" information vs role-played identity.

The discussion about realism of builds... that may have something to do with the relative recency of advances in detail available with Mesh: we're all impressed by what's possible, until it's old-hat, then we'll want more imagination and less rote copying of reality, perhaps.

Recently, I've somehow found myself reminded repeatedly about an early collaborative sim, Suffugium, which went away back in 2010. I don't know all its history by any means, but at one point I remember being enthralled by whimsical, slightly cartoony builds that nonetheless related to realistic structures with certain very realistic details that were all the more intriguing for being in a less detailed setting.

Speaking from my own experience, I find that neighbours with more realistic builds make it easier for my own stuff to blend in, so I make a real effort to populate lands I own with more or less realistic stuff that seems appropriate to the basic "natural" surroundings. As much fun as a 'toon setting might be, I think I'd find it more restrictive to try to fit with that than with realism.

[wherorangi]

---

Rhonda Huntress wrote:

---

Kate Amdahl wrote:

Because it's short and friendly. Why, apart from formal communications, 

wouldn't

someone say "resis"? Too colloquial? Too cute?

---

What does it mean?

---

it means that you dont have any dent in you

jejejjee (: