Reporting harassment

[TouchofSoul]

Hello all,

This is my first post on this forum, so please bear with me. ;)

I was just reading LL TOS, and as we all know the TOS is widely misunderstood by many. I'm setting up some new rules for my sim and TOS and Harassment has become a point of discussion.

To quote LL TOS:

Harassment

Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.

 

So my question regarding this is: how does one report harassment if one isn't allowed to share chat logs without consent by all involved parties? Certainly the harassing party won't give consent, as it will obviously incriminate them.

I'm not always on the sim, so I ask the visitors to report any wrong doings done onto them. But of course I can't do much without some form of proof, and without it it's the word of one person against that of another.

On the one hand I think "I'll do what I must to protect my visitors and ban the harassers without debate" and on the other hand I want to stay within LL's rules and policies too.

Certainly there must be some "loopholes" and/or "precedents" set for sim owners? 

 

Regards,

Soul

 

[Qie Niangao]

Whatever you do, do not put yourself in the position of reporting harrassment of other people.

If those individuals want to report their own harassment, nobody is going to get in trouble if they forward their own chatlogs to LL (because LL can see all that chat anyway, if it wants).

For reasons other than Abuse Reports to LL, I do think a sim owner can request visitors to opt-in to a sim's specific terms and conditions about chat recording or whatever, and eject them from the sim if they don't agree. This would almost certainly require a "positive opt-in," not merely a notice on arrival. Perhaps some role-play sim owner will know the right procedure and language that would make such a policy safe to enforce.

[TouchofSoul]

" For reasons other than Abuse Reports to LL, I do think a sim owner can request visitors to opt-in to a sim's specific terms and conditions about chat recording or whatever, and eject them from the sim if they don't agree. This would almost certainly require a "positive opt-in," not merely a notice on arrival. Perhaps some role-play sim owner will know the right procedure and language that would make such a policy safe to enforce." 

 

That's actually a pretty good idea. Sort of like a safety clause. That sounds enforceable.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

You can bann anyone you want anytime you want with no explanation, as long as yu are either the land own/rentor or someone who has been given that ability by the land owner/rentor.

[TouchofSoul]

"You can bann anyone you want anytime you want with no explanation, as long as yu are either the land own/rentor or someone who has been given that ability by the land owner/rentor."

 

Yes I know that, but I'd rather not. I'm not a trigger happy kind of fellow who adds someone to a banlist without a good reason. I like to keep the word spreading that I have a nice, friendly adult sim. And not the kind of place where someone gets banned just because someone said another person was being annoying while people were trying to enjoy themselves.

I'll ban without question if someone trespasses to an unprotected part of the sim in the sky where they're not supposed to be going since I've turned off the flying option for the sim. Somehow they still find a way to fly up there. Yes I have orbs in place, but with multiple platforms I'm not about to buy orbs for everything. I have three in place where they're needed most, and that was expensive enough. I'll permanently ban people who have been warned of misconduct multiple times.

 

[Nova Convair]

You confuse a chat log with proof. You confuse the TOS with your sim rules.

You are in no position to find out what has happend and you are in no position to AR anything for others.

If you feel like taking action and ban someone - the TOS allows that - even if this avatar didn't do anything. You don't need proof (which you will never get anyways) and you don't need a reason.

LL is the only party that will have proof and can take actions and they will not tell you anything.

[TouchofSoul]

Okay I think I need to clarify something before this gets out of hand....

I'm not going to AR anything FOR anyone to LL. That's not my purpose. What I'm trying to find out is how much a visitor of my sim is allowed to report to ME, as simowner. And how much of the TOS then applies to my simrules.

Example: three people are having a conversation on my sim. They are regulars and never bother anyone. Then a new visitor comes along, gets in the middle of their conversation and begins to act like a complete juvenile. Over the next several days this person is reported to me as being a complete nuisance for doing similar things to other visitors.

Now of course I'll ban this person without thinking hard about it, because it would be silly to warn every visitor of such a person and to ask them to block and blacklist him/her. But all I have to go on is the word of the harassed visitors. I don't have actual proof that it took place, and the guilty person probably won't freely give up their chatlog. Now I won't lose any sleep over banning such a person without actual proof, and I hightly doubt that person would report me to LL.

So what I was trying to find out if I, in any way, could defend the banning without requesting chatlogs from all involved? Could the person who was banned ever turn around and report me for wrongful banning or whatever?

You say I'm in no position to find out what has happened. I disagree with that statement. As simowner  I have every right to defend my visitors, or try to referee in a situation if it means I don't have to ban anyone. The less people I ban, the more people visit my sim. I have no wish to become a permanent moderator on my sim. I've made it expressly clear that if there are problems that I'm to be contacted, and I fully intend to back that up, but in doing so I want to stay within LL policies and merge them, where possible, with my simrules.

Now if you, or anyone else here, know for a fact that I can ban people to my heart's content, then so be it. End of question. I'm just trying to find out if it won't come back to me and legally bite me in the ass.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I wouldn't rely on chat logs anyway, they are too easy to change / forge.  The person complaining can describe or paraphrase a conversation in general terms without sharing chat logs. Question the person reporting to see if their story is consistent or changes with further questioning.

Avoid playing mom ruling on playground squabbles.  In fact I'd be more inclined to tell the complainer to AR the person and let LL sort it out.  I wouldn't step in at all unless the offense is grievous or is damaging to you, your business or you sim.

Go with your gut feeling when making a ruling. Banning will not come back to bite you.  It is your legal right.  You are also not required to tell the banned person anything or even to defend you actions.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

OK, either you are dense or the biggest liar ever going..

You state here

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TouchofSoul wrote:

Now if you, or anyone else here, know for a fact that I can ban people to my heart's content, then so be it. End of question. I'm just trying to find out if it won't come back to me and legally bite me in the ass.

 

---

When just a little while ago you replied...

---

TouchofSoul wrote:

"

You can bann anyone you want anytime you want with no explanation, as long as yu are either the land own/rentor or someone who has been given that ability by the land owner/rentor."

 

Yes I know that, but I'd rather not. I'm not a trigger happy kind of fellow who adds someone to a banlist without a good reason. I like to keep the word spreading that I have a nice, friendly adult sim. And not the kind of place where someone gets banned just because someone said another person was being annoying while people were trying to enjoy themselves.

---

Which is it? Do you know you can bann someone for any reason or not? Your sim your rules. If you want to say no one can come on the sim wearing purple, you can.

Here is your fact..

 

Freezing, banning and ejecting

Freezing, banning and ejecting are tools landholders may use to deal with troublemakers on their property. To freeze, eject, or ban someone, you must either own the land or be a member of the group that owns the land and be authorized to Eject and freeze Residents on parcels and Manage parcel Ban lists.

[TouchofSoul]

Yes I know that, so there's no need to get nasty. I'm neither dense, nor a liar. I'm just looking for confirmation, which is hard to get when I read various versions. I've been in SL much longer than this avatar suggests, but sim rules have never been something I've been too serious about. Until now. Is that explanation good enough for you, Drake?

So my sim, my rules, and you're not invited. How's that?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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TouchofSoul wrote:

Yes I know that, so there's no need to get nasty. I'm neither dense, nor a liar. I'm just looking for confirmation, which is hard to get when I read various versions. I've been in SL much longer than this avatar suggests, but sim rules have never been something I've been too serious about. Until now. Is that explanation good enough for you, Drake?

So my sim, my rules, and you're not invited. How's that?

---

Really? I'm actually banned from someplace? YES, I have finnaly been banned in SL!!! After 8 years it finally happened.

Seriously, it has always been, "your sim, your rules." There have never been any other versions about what you are allowed to do with your sim. You are making way too much of an issue over this. Do you really give a rat's butt about what some griefer you had to bann thinks?

[Madelaine McMasters]

Hi TouchofSoul,

Yes, you can ban to your heart's content. Don't like people who eat cherries in public? Ban me. Don't like people who referee uniforms and brandish STOP signs? Ban Snugs McMasters (please!). LL will do nothing, it's your sim. Of course you've already displayed enough common sense to ban only those people you think are harming your sim's overall experience. So, don't worry about repercussions from LL. If anything, you may see repercussions from people you ban. Hissy fits can be annoying.

I'm not sure of the wisdom of advertising yourself as the arbiter for complaints. Most residents know they can IM the owner of a sim if they're having problems. My worry would be that expressly stating you want troublemakers reported to you may oversensitize your patrons and/or suggest that your sim has an abnormally high level of griefing. And it's up to you whether you entertain rebuttals from those you ban. You don't want to set yourself up as nanny... unless you look hot dressed as Mary Poppins.

;-).

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I don't really understand what the problem is supposed to be, and I am involved in the management of a large estate of popular adult regions (though I am writing this in a personal capacity, obviously).

You don't need to justify banning people from your property to anyone.    Personally, and particularly if I'm going on complaints from other visitors rather than on something I've witnessed first-hand, I'd have a quiet chat with the alleged harasser to get his side of the story, and probably leave it at that.    If we continue to receive complaints then a brief ban would probably be the next step, followed by a permanent ban if he still doesn't get the message.

I'd certainly encourage the complainants to AR him if they feel strongly about it.   They don't need to send anything to LL, because, given the time, date and location of the incident, LL can inspect the chat logs (and IM logs, come to that)  for themselves.   But I wouldn't normally bother ARing someone myself if I hadn't witnessed the actual incident.   The exceptions would be for allegations of underage visitors and of sexual age-play involving avatars who seem to represent minors.    LL can investigate those if they want to, and it's our policy always to AR those two offences and then let LL deal with it.

 

[Bree Giffen]

Let's get into a hypothetical worse case scenario where Resident-A has a pleasant conversation with Resident-B on a sim. Resident-B is a regular on the sim but with loose morals. Resident-B complains to the sim owner that he was harassed by Resident-A. The sim owner, not able to ask for chat-logs, bans Resident-A based on their trust of the regular visitor Resident-B. Resident-A goes to LindenLab and asks them to check his chat logs with Resident-B to show that he did not harass anyone and was wrongfully banned by the sim owner.

LL will not do anything. They will not get involved even if a sim owner has banned someone wrongfully.

[GreenLantern Excelsior]

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TouchofSoul wrote:

What I'm trying to find out is how much a visitor of my sim is allowed to report to ME, as simowner. And how much of the TOS then applies to my simrules. 

---

Section 4, "Disclosure," of the Second Life Community Standards (which are part of the Linden Lab Terms of Service), prohibits sharing chat logs without consent.

• Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.

The Linden Lab Official Policy about Residents' privacy rights  provides additional terms and conditions.

• Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service.

So Disclosure applies specifically to chat logs shared within Second Life or the Second Life forums. Also note that there is no distinction made between a conversation in local chat and a conversation in IM - both are subject to privacy rights. LL continued on their policy page, describing how chat logs may be shared without violating the ToS.

• NOTE: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service. ; while that might be illegal, but those laws must be enforced by the proper law enforcement agencies.
• "Conversation" means text that originally came from Second Life chat or Second Life instant messages. If it's totally unattributed, then it isn't considered disclosure. Additionally, Residents are not punished for sharing or posting a comment such as "Bob Resident said, 'You're the greatest!'"

So if someone has a legitimate harassment complaint and wants to share chat logs with you, have them email you the conversation, or share it with you on Skype, or send you a link to where they posted it on their blog. When a conversation is shared outside of official Linden Lab channels, it is not covered by the Linden Lab Terms of Service.

That privacy policy also tells you what you need to do if you are remotely monitoring a conversation or using a scripted object to record conversation. If I were you, I would not do either of those things, because the instructions in the policy appear to be contradictory. For example, the policy says that you may remotely monitor conversations if you provide notification to all participants by posting a clearly visible sign in the recording location. However, it also says that you may not remotely log chat by using a scripted object unless you obtain consent.

This might be a good place to address those disclaimers in people's profile picks that supposedly allows them to share your conversation logs whether you consent to it or not. Section 11 of the Linden Lab Terms of Service says this:

• Except for such Updated Terms, this Agreement may not be modified except by mutual written agreement between you and Linden Lab that is signed by hand (not electronically) by duly authorized representatives of both parties and expressly references amendment of this Agreement. You acknowledge that no other written, oral or electronic communications will serve to modify or supplement this Agreement, and you agree not to make any claims inconsistent with this understanding or in reliance on communications not part of this Agreement.

A resident may post whatever they want in their profile picks, but posting a disclaimer doesn't allow them to disregard the Terms of Service or Community Standards. Those disclaimers mean nothing.

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TouchofSoul wrote:

So what I was trying to find out if I, in any way, could defend the banning without requesting chatlogs from all involved? Could the person who was banned ever turn around and report me for wrongful banning or whatever?

 

---

As others here have said, it's your region and your rules. You can ban people for any reason or for no reason. As long as you don't violate the Terms of Service, there's nothing they could write in an Abuse Report that would affect you. For example, there are certain regions that do not allow furry avatars. This isn't intolerance against furries, a violation of the Community Standards. It's just a ban on furries with no reason offered or necessary. So you are safe. 

[irihapeti]

just about people who fly/teleport to places you dont want

can get Pyske Phaeton's orb for free. Is opensource now

is here: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PDS-HomeSecurity-Orb-FREE-Open-Source/143384?id=143384&slug=PDS-HomeSecurity-Orb-FREE-Open-Source

[irihapeti]

about chat harrassment

put in a open chat broadcast system. People tend not to overdo it when their chat is broadcast to everybody anywhere on the sim

if the harrassment is in IM then tell the target to not complain to you. Tell them to file their own Abuse Report if they want. Or to use Block. Or both as they like. bc that is what they are for

[Kelli May]

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irihapeti wrote:

about chat harrassment

put in a open chat broadcast system. People tend not to overdo it when their chat is broadcast to everybody anywhere on the sim

if the harrassment is in IM then tell the target to not complain to you. Tell them to file their own Abuse Report if they want. Or to use Block. Or both as they like. bc that is what they are for

---

All chat being broadcast all over a sim? That'd chase me away from a location faster than any amount of harassment.

[Qie Niangao]

irihapeti wrote: put in a open chat broadcast system. People tend not to overdo it when their chat is broadcast to everybody anywhere on the sim

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Kelli May wrote: All chat being broadcast all over a sim? That'd chase me away from a location faster than any amount of harassment.

Whereas it would trigger my inner griefer.

[Snugs McMasters]

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irihapeti wrote:

about chat harrassment

put in a open chat broadcast system. People tend not to overdo it when their chat is broadcast to everybody anywhere on the sim

---

Whoa! Clearly you've never hung with Maddy. The bigger her audience, the harder it is to calm her down and shut her up.

[irihapeti]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

irihapeti wrote: put in a open chat broadcast system. People tend not to overdo it when their chat is broadcast to everybody anywhere on the sim

---

Kelli May wrote: All chat being broadcast all over a sim? That'd chase me away from a location faster than any amount of harassment.

Whereas it would trigger

my

inner griefer.

---

ooowah!! (:

still it does work

also can set it up to be quite draconian. Like can have a whitelist. Everybody who is on the list dont get their chat broadcast. Not on the list then you are publicly draconed (:

[irihapeti]

---

Snugs McMasters wrote:

---

irihapeti wrote:

about chat harrassment

put in a open chat broadcast system. People tend not to overdo it when their chat is broadcast to everybody anywhere on the sim

---

Whoa! Clearly you've never hung with Maddy. The bigger her audience, the harder it is to calm her down and shut her up.

---

lucky for you then that there isnt a gridwide chat broadcast system

q; (:

[Crim Mip]

Basically the SL TOS is in effect no matter what rules you set for your sim. You can not reverse or otherwise alter them. Those are also the only ones LL will even consider enforcing themselves. and they can do so regardless of any rules or disclamiers you have in your sim rules.  They will not enforce further rules that sim owners set themselves. You as a parcel or sim owner are free to set further rules that you and your sim staff (if any) are responsible to enforce. Those can be as arbitrary as you wish to make them. Any warning/ban/appeals process you set is entirely up to you to follow (or not) at your whim. 

[GreenLantern Excelsior]

* clicks the imaginary "Like" button repeatedly for Crim Mip's post *

[AlcYanne]

Thats why screenshots are good