Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Nobody knows what may happen in the future. But we have no intent to steal your stuff. I can imagine scary scenarios that are more likely to happen, that none us have control over, that would concern me more. I don't see how SL as we know it could be successful if we started to steal your stuff. I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long...so I don't really see the logic in this conversation. It sounds scary to some of you but how it could really become a real problem I don't really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Nobody knows what may happen in the future. But we have no intent to steal your stuff. I can imagine scary scenarios that are more likely to happen, that none us have control over, that would concern me more. I don't see how SL as we know it could be successful if we started to steal your stuff. I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long...so I don't really see the logic in this conversation. It sounds scary to some of you but how it could really become a real problem I don't really know. It's so good to see you have a sense of proportion and humor, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Nobody knows what may happen in the future. But we have no intent to steal your stuff. I can imagine scary scenarios that are more likely to happen, that none us have control over, that would concern me more. I don't see how SL as we know it could be successful if we started to steal your stuff. I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long...so I don't really see the logic in this conversation. It sounds scary to some of you but how it could really become a real problem I don't really know. That logic is the reason I don't worry about your intent, Ebbe. It's Hanlon's Razor that worries me... and those who trust my intent. Don't let those scary scenarios keep you up at night. They're often not the ones you imagined. Never has "Your World, Your Imagination" been so apropo. Good luck, have fun. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have trusted LL to not steal my stuff :-) Maybe it is because I am invested in SL up to my eyeballs and have no good alternative to trusting -- but also, SL has been very good to me, warts and all (and I am very well versed in the warts), and I am grateful to those who keep it afloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long Don't you count Apple's "appropriation" of the WIMP interface from Rank Xerox? Wooja...speakillofthedead ETA: I'm logging off now to watch a Horror Movie; I taped Arsenal v Bayern Munich. I told you Ozil was finished. He has tired eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Ebbe said that didn't cover the edge cases, and so it doesn't meet the criteria. I might have missed something but, what exactly is an "edge case?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 It's an engineering term. RTFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Czari Zenovka wrote: I might have missed something but, what exactly is an "edge case?" It's a legal case where the customer has the edge on the company. Wooja...believeitwasanoutofcourtsettlementthatscaredllintochangingitstos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Wooja wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: I might have missed something but, what exactly is an "edge case?" It's a legal case where the customer has the edge on the company. As an e.g., yes! Those 'special' cases. PS Trinity has nothing to fear, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Jo Yardley wrote: This video was made in 2009 and still looks better than a lot of other places I know today; Thank you for sharing this, Jo. Very nice work!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Nobody knows what may happen in the future. But we have no intent to steal your stuff. I can imagine scary scenarios that are more likely to happen, that none us have control over, that would concern me more. I don't see how SL as we know it could be successful if we started to steal your stuff. I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long...so I don't really see the logic in this conversation. It sounds scary to some of you but how it could really become a real problem I don't really know. For me, is not that I believe that Linden Lab will steal my stuffs... the problem lies in the fact that most people rely on various third party templets, models and textures that have End User License Agreements which do not allow them the ability to grant Linden Lab the licensing rights which the Terms of Service now requires. This is why CG Textures has disallowed the use of their textures in Second Life (link). But, what makes matters worse is that even textures bought in Second Life are subject to the same problem unless they're sold with an almost unlimited EULA, which most are not. This situation will either cause people to stop being able to create content or resort to creating content with elements which they shouldn't be using according to the ToS as it now reads. The only real way around this is to create everything yourself, which, IMHO, goes against the spirit of working together, which was fundamental in helping to make SL the wonderful place that it is now. I really don't want to see that creative, interactive process stifled over some legalese. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Ebbe Linden wrote: Nobody knows what may happen in the future. But we have no intent to steal your stuff. I can imagine scary scenarios that are more likely to happen, that none us have control over, that would concern me more. I don't see how SL as we know it could be successful if we started to steal your stuff. I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long...so I don't really see the logic in this conversation. It sounds scary to some of you but how it could really become a real problem I don't really know. For me, is not that I believe that Linden Lab will steal my stuffs... the problem lies in the fact that most people rely on various third party templets, models and textures that have End User License Agreements which do not allow them the ability to grant Linden Lab the licensing rights which the Terms of Service now requires. This is why CG Textures has disallowed the use of their textures in Second Life (link). But, what makes matters worse is that even textures bought in Second Life are subject to the same problem unless they're sold with an almost unlimited EULA, which most are not. This situation will either cause people to stop being able to create content or resort to creating content with elements which they shouldn't be using according to the ToS as it now reads. The only real way around this is to create everything yourself, which, IMHO, goes against the spirit of working together, which was fundamental in helping to make SL the wonderful place that it is now. I really don't want to see that creative, interactive process stifled over some legalese. ...Dres Exactly. I trust LL as much (or as little) as any other huge company that provides me services. But the fact that these ToS makes a lot of people and third party websites so very nervous means that at the least someone has to look at the language used. There is a difference between saying; "We can do with your stuff whatever we like" and "we can do with your stuff whatever we like but only in connection with SL promotion or with your permission.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Ebbe Linden wrote: Nobody knows what may happen in the future. But we have no intent to steal your stuff. I can imagine scary scenarios that are more likely to happen, that none us have control over, that would concern me more. I don't see how SL as we know it could be successful if we started to steal your stuff. I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long...so I don't really see the logic in this conversation. It sounds scary to some of you but how it could really become a real problem I don't really know. For me, is not that I believe that Linden Lab will steal my stuffs... the problem lies in the fact that most people rely on various third party templets, models and textures that have End User License Agreements which do not allow them the ability to grant Linden Lab the licensing rights which the Terms of Service now requires. This is why CG Textures has disallowed the use of their textures in Second Life (link). But, what makes matters worse is that even textures bought in Second Life are subject to the same problem unless they're sold with an almost unlimited EULA, which most are not. This situation will either cause people to stop being able to create content or resort to creating content with elements which they shouldn't be using according to the ToS as it now reads. The only real way around this is to create everything yourself, which, IMHO, goes against the spirit of working together, which was fundamental in helping to make SL the wonderful place that it is now. I really don't want to see that creative, interactive process stifled over some legalese. ...Dres Dres I am not going to even attempt to speak for Ebbe here, but much of what you wrote about he addressed as *the edge*. Stifling? I can't agree with these words. Sometimes the most prohibitive of contracts for employees/scientists/chemists/engineers/designers have led to brilliance. How many greats without a familiar name did Mr. Edison employ? Of course I could go on an on, but why? I think people will create and interact to the best of their ability/skill/talent or brilliance regardless of the ToS! I see so much beauty and brilliance inworld .... no stifling whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deej Kasshiki Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Looks like I'm a bit late to the party but, I'd also like to welcome Ebbe to Second Life. It's great to see you communicating with us via the official SL forums. I have no sage wisdom to offer or any action items to suggest be added to your calendar Ebbe but, I'd ask one thing of you; please don't ignore us, your customers. Yes, some of us have agendas and pet peeves and strong opinions but, we can also offer years of experience, institutional memory, differing perspectives and (hopefully) fresh insights into various aspects that affect the platform. What we suggest may not always be technically feasible or make sense from a business perspective but, please let's engage in an ongoing dialog. I've been in world since 2006. I've seen SL go through the media-fueled boom times, the subsequent bust, virtual land bubbles, major technical issues and way more controversies than I can remember. Through all of that I, like many other longtime customers, remain because I enjoy all of the craziness, creativity and freedom that SL offers. I want SL to be around far into the future. Please try to keep an open mind and where it's possible and makes sense, seriously consider what we have to say. Thanks for listening and here's hoping for a brighter future for SL and the Lab! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Ebbe Linden wrote: As Linden Lab’s new CEO, I wanted to take a moment to introduce myself to you all - I’m Ebbe Altberg, aka Ebbe Linden in Second Life (although I’ve been advised by many of you to use an alt when cruising around). You can find my official bio on LindenLab.com, and there’s a nice piece with a bit more about my background and experience over on Inara Pey’s blog, Living in a Modem World (I offered a few clarifications in this comment there). Why did I choose to take this on? I did it because I love the idea behind our products, what you can do with them, and the potential for what we can become. I studied fine arts and computer science, and I find creating digital products and services a creative blend that I absolutely love. For me then, the creative and empowering technologies and marketplaces Linden Lab are creating are just incredible materials to work with. I have a huge belief that we can do great things together. Great for you, for Linden Lab, and for our investors. Linden has learned a ton that few companies have ever had the opportunity to learn when it comes to empowering people to contribute in creative ways and collaborate with a global online community. It’s unique. I don’t really consider myself a ‘gamer,’ but I also don’t think that ‘game’ would describe Second Life either, and I’ve found Second Life intriguing for a long time. In addition to having personally explored the virtual world a bit back when it first started (of course I’m diving in more now), my son was a very active Resident as a teenager, and I’ve been consistently impressed by the incredible things the Second Life community creates. I’m proud to be joining the team that enables this level of creativity, and as I said in our press release, I’m committed to supporting our customers to help you become even more successful. Many of you have been very kind in welcoming me via Twitter (I’m @ebbealtberg there), and I’ve read quite a few thoughtful blog posts and forum threads offering advice and raising some issues to my attention - thank you for that! I’ll continue to read all that I can (although I won’t always be able to respond to everything), and I’m looking forward to getting more familiar with Second Life and its communities through both personal experience inworld and communication with you and my colleagues. There are big opportunities ahead as we further improve and grow Second Life, and I’m looking forward to our future together. See you inworld! Ebbe Linden http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Hello-from-Linden-Lab-s-New-CEO/ba-p/2499503?utm_source=Blog&utm_medium=Story&utm_campaign=SocialCM Better late than never, I suppose. ...Dres ETA: Text Studies show that people list things in order of least important to most...so "Great for you, for Linden Lab, and for our investors," translated is Great for our investors, great for Linden Lab, and great for you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 21, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 21, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 21, 2014 Sorry, I must have it backwards then. Without customers there's obviously not much of anything, no company, no investors...not for long anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Sorry, I must have it backwards then. Without customers there's obviously not much of anything, no company, no investors...not for long anyway... Oh, c'mon, Ebbe, we both know that investors kick start and in some cases, sustain a company...and without them, many companies would not exist today. To slate them as a tertiary consideration only serves to placate the average user. It rather honestly is no investors, no company...no need for users. No shame in it. It is...as the world turns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelley Wonder Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Welcome Ebbe ~ I wish you well in your ventures and hope we can all find common ground to tread upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treasure Ballinger Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'm actually glad this spam crap happened while Ebbe is in here talking to us, nothing like seeing it for oneself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Zanzibar Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 ~~ A BIG welcome Ebbe !! ~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Treasure Ballinger wrote: I'm actually glad this spam crap happened while Ebbe is in here talking to us, nothing like seeing it for oneself. Yes indeed, the daily public face of SL is "mumbai prostitute spam" and my JIRA about it was closed as "unactionable"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 @Ebbe: In case it's removed by the time you get here -- and the timely removal of spam is more of a problem for those of us on non-USian times -- this is what these forums tend to look like when the Moderators aren't on duty. I've hidden it behind a spoiler tag because other people must be as fed up with seeing it as am I. I'm wondering if, in addition to more conventional anti-spam measures, a facility to hide posts from a particular author wouldn't help mitigate the problem, Then, on logging in here, people could simply block posts from the spammers (usually two or three throwaway accounts) until the moderators' shift starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooja Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Innula Zenovka wrote: I'm wondering if, in addition to more conventional anti-spam measures, a facility to hide posts from a particular author wouldn't help mitigate the problem, I am sure that such a forum muting facility would be welcomed by the tiny vocal minority of overly-sensitive participants, in addition to those merely bored by uninteresting advertising. Wooja...believeidlosehalfmyaudienceifsuchafeaturewasenabled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Nobody knows what may happen in the future. But we have no intent to steal your stuff. I can imagine scary scenarios that are more likely to happen, that none us have control over, that would concern me more. I don't see how SL as we know it could be successful if we started to steal your stuff. I certainly don't see a business model based on stealing stuff that could last very long...so I don't really see the logic in this conversation. It sounds scary to some of you but how it could really become a real problem I don't really know. Well, Ebbe, maybe you dont see the logic in this conversation, but if you dont need to use our stuffs for "whatever purpose" then i dont see the logic for its writen in the TOS. Its like if you rent a house to someone and in the contract the landlord write he can come in your house whenever he wants and for whatever purpose. Then of course when you both will sign the contract, he will say to you that he will never come inside your house and it would be bad for his business if he does, and then he dont see why its a problem for you. Would you still sign ? Except if the landlord is a really close friend or someone from your family and you can give to him a deep trust, you wont sign such contract bec who knows what can happen in the future... Its asking a blank check. A contract should protect both parts, and not, like this one, protect one part and put the other part in danger. I totally share your sadness about the trust broken. But, your turn to trust me, believe me we have good reasons for that. Rodvick treated us with a huge lack of respect and this, indeed, will take time to heel and i know its a huge challenge for you. However, by looking at your history, i believe you have the skills that LL management was missing. Just by the fact you came here with humility and willing to talk to us, you won my total respect. For the trust, dont take it personnaly but it will require more time after the disaster caused by Rodvick. But yes, after your first week at LL i can say im optimist and hopeful again. I just really really hope you will keep that way and dont turn your back to us one day. I value a lot what you did in this thread. Of course, you won't be able to please everyone with the decisions you will have to take, but communication is the key. With communication we can get ride of a lot of misunderstanding and frustration. As you can see in this thread ppl had a really urge to talk and to be heard. A huge one. So that's a first step and a pretty well done one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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