A Question for Customers - Do you prefer boxes or folders for your Marketplace purchases?

[Suspiria Finucane]

Folders most definitely. If I need a box, making one isn't difficult :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

[Rya Nitely]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

The number of results, even if everyone on the forum replies, will be statistically  tiny compared to all SL customers as a whole.  You can only conclude what the people that post want as individuals. It proves nothing about the vast majority of customers.

 

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Hi Amethyst, when you say a small sample size tells you nothing, that's not correct. This is how population statistics are calculated all the time. The common practice is to use a small representative sample. There is no reason to believe that the people who post in the general forum are not a representative sample of customers in SL. You gather information from the sample, calculate your statistics and draw conclusions from that.

[Ciaran Laval]

The discussion wasn't just about DD but there are reasons why some items come in boxes rather than folders. A Rez-Foo package is going to come in a box, for example, even if that box is delivered to a folder, you still have a box. Merchants use packages like Rez-Foo because larger builds cannot be linked in one linkset without such a device.

For a linked building, I'm not sure what advantage there is to a folder, it's a single object anyway.

Networked vendors, which large merchants use, do not deliver folders, llGiveInventoryList does not work over sim borders, well it can do for a short period, but that's a quirk and is not a reliable method of delivery.

On a personal level, I prefer boxes if an item has copy perms because then I have a backup of the original item, I'll end up with a folder anyway when I unpack it in a lot of cases.

Then we come to the issue of clutter, be it folders or boxes, textures, notecards, landmarks, yadda yadda yadda. I'm sure plenty of customers would happily do without some of the blurb, but merchants certainly like to add those items.

 

 

 

[Maryanne Solo]

I will be including a picture of a box in all my folders from now on.

Just to keep everyone happy

[jwenting]

folders containing a box with a backup copy. Best of both worlds, instant use and can store a backup without having to package it myself.

[Ren Toxx]

Folders, unless it's fatpacks of which I'm really not all that interested in having unpacked and ready to wear some of the variations of the product.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Lasher Oh wrote:

LOL - I guess there is nothing particularly important going on in the world these days !

 

^L^

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My vote for best post in the thread!

While I personally prefer receiving boxes as a customer...I'm not going to lose sleep over it either way.  :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

[Czari Zenovka]

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Maryanne Solo wrote:

I will be including a picture of a box in all my folders from now on.

Just to keep everyone happy

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*Wipes water off the monitor*

It needed a cleaning anyway. :matte-motes-wink:

[Dresden Ceriano]

It makes very little difference to me whether an item comes in a box or a folder... with one exception.  For the love of God, please don't box demos for wearables.  If I get a demo that I have to go home and rez to unpack before I try it on, the chances of me going back to buy the item is slim.  Sometimes you get these boxes that you can wear on the spot to receive it's contents, but most of the time there's no indication that this is how it was set up and I not going just wear something on the off chance that it was.  How difficult can it be to clearly state this somewhere in the name of the object?

Nevertheless, my pet peeve about the way things are packaged has to do with a merchant loading down the contents with a bunch of unnecessary crap.  One landmark to your main store is all I need, not one to every satellite store you have; not 15 nonsense notecards about every little event you are participating in; not even one notecard thanking me for buying from you... it's just not necessary; and though I appreciate the thought behind it, I don't need another stinking posestand... it just clutters up my already, out of control inventory.

(end of rant)

 

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

Briefs are too constricting, I prefer boxers...  err, nevermind, misread the subject.  :smileytongue:

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Yikes!  Just thinking of an undergarment called a folder makes me cringe.

...Dres

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Folders, though I do like boxes to keep a backup copy of purchased items in my inventory.

[Tiffy Vella]

Folders. Because being able to see a list of what's for sale, and it's perms is only right. So buying the contents of a box is my favourite thing ever.

However, just to get the best of both worlds, I'm still a closet box lover and like to privately box those items myself later, home alone, while nobody can watch. Then, all those extra sizes and colours can be kept tucked away for later.

And I think people who put boxes in folders are wonderful.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

The number of results, even if everyone on the forum replies, will be statistically  tiny compared to all SL customers as a whole.  You can only conclude what the people that post want as individuals. It proves nothing about the vast majority of customers.

 

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Hi Amethyst, when you say a small sample size tells you nothing, that's not correct. This is how population statistics are calculated all the time. The common practice is to use a small representative sample. There is no reason to believe that the people who post in the general forum are not a representative sample of customers in SL. You gather information from the sample, calculate your statistics and draw conclusions from that.

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This is true, but the number of replies is likely to be far less than is needed.  I used 2 Statistics calculators for sample size needed  Assuming there are 250,000 customers in SL, which is pretty conservative, you would need a random sample of between 662 and 664 replies to get  a result that is plus or minus 5 points of being accurate. 

This is not a random sample, it is a voluntary sample which results in less accuracy.  As of the time of this post 387 views of this topic and while lets say half those views are people viewing it more than once, still a large number of people don't even care enough one way or the other to reply.

[Rya Nitely]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Rya Nitely wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

The number of results, even if everyone on the forum replies, will be statistically  tiny compared to all SL customers as a whole.  You can only conclude what the people that post want as individuals. It proves nothing about the vast majority of customers.

 

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Hi Amethyst, when you say a small sample size tells you nothing, that's not correct. This is how population statistics are calculated all the time. The common practice is to use a small representative sample. There is no reason to believe that the people who post in the general forum are not a representative sample of customers in SL. You gather information from the sample, calculate your statistics and draw conclusions from that.

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This is not a random sample, it is a voluntary sample which results in less accuracy.

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If the majority of people here were agreeing with your preference - boxes - then you'd be happy to call the results valid. You already stated in a previous thread that you believed the majority of customers who responded to previous surveys preferred boxes, and you didn't talk about accuracy then.

When so many people are saying they prefer folders it is telling you something - it might not make any difference to the way things are done, but it's useful to know.

I learnt a few things here -

Most people (almost everyone) prefer folders for wearables

Do not clutter your folder or box with unnecessary notecards, LMs etc

A folder of items that also includes a box is the best option for the customer - maybe a bit more work for merchant, but I will be considering this option with any new listings.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Rya Nitely wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

The number of results, even if everyone on the forum replies, will be statistically  tiny compared to all SL customers as a whole.  You can only conclude what the people that post want as individuals. It proves nothing about the vast majority of customers.

 

---

Hi Amethyst, when you say a small sample size tells you nothing, that's not correct. This is how population statistics are calculated all the time. The common practice is to use a small representative sample. There is no reason to believe that the people who post in the general forum are not a representative sample of customers in SL. You gather information from the sample, calculate your statistics and draw conclusions from that.

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This is true, but the number of replies is likely to be far less than is needed.  I used 2 Statistics calculators for sample size needed  Assuming there are 250,000 customers in SL, which is pretty conservative, you would need a random sample of between 662 and 664 replies to get  a result that is plus or minus 5 points of being accurate. 

This is not a random sample, it is a voluntary sample which results in less accuracy.  As of the time of this post 387 views of this topic and while lets say half those views are people viewing it more than once, still a large number of people don't even care enough one way or the other to reply.

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"There is no reason to believe that the people who post in the general forum are not a representative sample of customers in SL."

I'm going to disagree sharply with this.  When I did this survey on the Forum, the results were way different than my pole of friends In World.  Of 30 asked,  18 were using a 22 inch Monitor, a way different percentage.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/What-Size-Computer-Monitor-Do-You-Use/m-p/1941317/highlight/true#M99902

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

If the majority of people here were agreeing with your preference - boxes - then you'd be happy to call the results valid. You already stated in a previous thread that you believed the majority of customers who responded to previous surveys preferred boxes, and you didn't talk about accuracy then.

 

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What I actually said was in response to your assertion in that thread that a VAST majority preferred folders and discounting any other opinion as not valid..  I agreed with another poster that there had been informal surveys - i.e. discussions,  in the past that gave the impression boxes were preferred.  I no where stated they were accurate or statistically valid surveys anymore than this one is.

There is no vast consensus here either.  The number answering positively folders in all cases vs. the number saying boxes or it depends on the item, or that gave no opinion (because it makes no difference?) is no where near a vast  majority.  Given the small voluntary sample if you calculated the margin of error (assuming this was a statistically valid sample, which it isn't) the result can't be taken as a valid result.  Actually if you took a survey of the entire population of SL, the majority probably didn't care enough to even have considered this an issue prior to being asked. 

I have never had anyone say to me, or overheard someone say, or seen someone say that they didn't buy a product just because it was boxed or in a folder and that was their sole reason.  That would not be a smart thing to do..  After all if you think an item fits your needs best and therefore is the best value for your money, you'd be silly to buy second best simply because it is in a box or folder.  Not saying it doesn't happen but I am saying that is rather petty and not in the buyers best interest.

 

 

[Rya Nitely]

yes yes ok, it was just an interesting experiment, that's all

 

Customers prefer boxes - happy now?

[Melita Magic]

Direct delivery is much better. Opening all those boxes is a pain. Then the boxes duplicate and I have to go through and delete and purge the extra boxes, and sort the boxes into a box folder.

I had to add this: I don't mind boxes nearly as much as I mind landmarks in a box. The landmark springs open, and while clicking 'keep' on everything else, I could get teleported somewhere unnecessarily. I have learned to click it shut just in time. It would be much nicer if merchants put their store landmark in a note card, so that didn't happen. Also, they should check and remove old landmarks that no longer go anywhere.

[Perrie Juran]

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Melita Magic wrote:

Direct delivery is much better. Opening all those boxes is a pain. Then the boxes duplicate and I have to go through and delete and purge the extra boxes, and sort the boxes into a box folder.

I had to add this: I don't mind boxes nearly as much as I mind landmarks in a box. The landmark springs open, and while clicking 'keep' on everything else, I could get teleported somewhere unnecessarily. I have learned to click it shut just in time. It would be much nicer if merchants put their store landmark in a note card, so that didn't happen. Also, they should check and remove old landmarks that no longer go anywhere.

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The boxes only duplicate if you take a "copy" box (box with copy items) back into inventory.  But the freely available 'wear and touch to unpack' script eliminates this if merchants would use it.

As soon as I unpack a box I have folders labelled "z-unpacked what have you" I move the box to.  I now have neatly stored back ups in case I screw something up.

A lot comes down to three things really.

1.  Inventory management is an art form in itself.

2.  It requires understanding permissions.

3.  It requires paying attention.

So it comes down to 'pay me now or pay me later.'

It is more work to pack back up copies into boxes if I am trying to avoid inventory clutter than for me to unpack a box at the front end of the deal.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Melita Magic wrote:

 

I had to add this: I don't mind boxes nearly as much as I mind landmarks in a box...It would be much nicer if merchants put their store landmark in a note card, so that didn't happen.

Also, they should check and remove old landmarks that no longer go anywhere.

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I do this - put the lm on the notecard/instructions.  As for old landmarks, Toysoldier Thor proposed the idea of Virtual Landmarks last July.  Virtual Landmarks would be a method that caused the landmark for a location to update itself automatically to a new location.  I know from just having a small number of items the enormity of the task involved in putting new lm's in products; I can't even imagine how it is for merchants with 100's - 1,000's of items.  This idea really took off and included meetings with Lindens where the idea was considered to be added to the viewer. 

Virtual Landmarks are now a reality and, in the spirit of resident-created content, Darrius Gothly developed a virtual landmark system.  Info can be found here. 

 

[Qie Niangao]

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I have never had anyone say to me, or overheard someone say, or seen someone say that they didn't buy a product just because it was boxed or in a folder and that was their sole reason.  

 

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That's probably true, but not buying is a pretty high threshold of preference. I'd expectt a business to want to be much more sensitive and responsive to customer preferences than to merely avoid doing something that customers actually report as stopping a sale. I see SL merchants doing all sorts of things to polish their brands -- things of which customers aren't even consciously aware, let alone report.

Here's a possibility for illustration only; I have no idea whether it's true. It could be that some share of Marketplace purchasers subconsciously assess boxed delivery to be old-fashioned, a kind of carry-over from the bad old days of Magic Boxes.

I can say with certainty that I, at least, had a significantly better impression of merchants who adopted Direct Delivery, back during the early transition; at that point, getting a folder of stuff really did signify that the merchant was still engaged enough to adopt the new method. (That's a little clouded now, of course, by the possibility that the merchant has no in-world presence at all--which is why I avoid buying anything that has no "See in Second Life" link, or where that link goes to a defunct location.)

[Perrie Juran]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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I have never had anyone say to me, or overheard someone say, or seen someone say that they didn't buy a product just because it was boxed or in a folder and that was their sole reason.  

 

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That's probably true, but not buying is a pretty high threshold of preference. I'd expectt a business to want to be much more sensitive and responsive to customer preferences than to merely avoid doing something that customers actually

report

as stopping a sale. I see SL merchants doing all sorts of things to polish their brands -- things of which customers aren't even consciously

aware

, let alone report.

Here's a possibility for illustration only; I have no idea whether it's true. It could be that some share of Marketplace purchasers subconsciously assess boxed delivery to be old-fashioned, a kind of carry-over from the bad old days of Magic Boxes.

I

can

say with certainty that I, at least, had a significantly better impression of merchants who adopted Direct Delivery, back during the early transition; at that point, getting a folder of stuff really did signify that the merchant was still engaged enough to adopt the new method. (That's a little clouded now, of course, by the possibility that the merchant has no in-world presence at all--which is why I avoid buying anything that has no "See in Second Life" link, or where that link goes to a defunct location.)

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I'd ask if we are just catering to and encouraging instant gratification with the folders?

Yes we'd all (and i'm assuming it is all of us) would prefer to log in and not have to think about anything technical but it is not how life works RL or SL.

It is a constant complaint I hear In World, "I can't find things because my inventory is a disastor." This is usually followed by, "I don't have time to clean up my Inventory."

Boxes for back ups reduces the clutter immensely.  Keep it lean and keep it clean.

I am more impressed and more likely to buy from a Merchant who put some effort into their listing with well done pictures and descriptions.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I'd ask if we are just catering to and encouraging instant gratification with the folders?

Yes we'd all (and i'm assuming it is all of us) would prefer to log in and not have to think about anything technical but it is not how life works RL or SL.

It is a constant complaint I hear In World, "I can't find things because my inventory is a disastor." This is usually followed by, "I don't have time to clean up my Inventory."

Boxes for back ups reduces the clutter immensely.  Keep it lean and keep it clean.

I am more impressed and more likely to buy from a Merchant who put some effort into their listing with well done pictures and descriptions.

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THIS^^  Especially the cluttered inventory part.  I, too, keep my inventory very organized and boxes are one of the keys.

@Qie - When DD was first introduced, there were some of us who still had older PCs due to financial and health issues that could not run the DD viewers.  Other merchants, including well-established and popular ones, waited.  I think the view that being an "early  adopter" is primarily interesting to techies.

[Melita Magic]

Oh yes I figured out why boxes were duplicating years ago. It is a good thing to detail on the forums though, for the many who read but don't post.

It is still annoying...why have a box to mess with at all? The exception would be if someone were sending a gift. That might be fun to put into a pretty gift box.

I do sort boxes into folders. I used to sort them into opened and unopened boxes, then decided it didn't really matter. The odds I will go through those folders again when I have so much junk, are miniscule, especially with so many creators in SL so that things are constantly being outdated. I have also gotten much better about opening, sorting, deleting and sorting again at the end of each shopping spree.

I don't like those wearable bags. Even on script enabled parcels, the script doesn't always work. Creators do sometimes make mistakes, such as misspelling a word on some items which makes renaming every piece necessary. It's more than possible some will make (some sort of) a mistake when putting one of those bags together too, and that could be why they simply don't unpack about 1/5 to 1/8 of the time (not sure how often. Often enough.) (If some are wondering how that could happen I can only say what happens: nothing. I do see the script icon lagging there, or sometimes get a partial unpack. Maybe they bought a faulty script.) I just put the bags on the ground and click open/copy to inventory like always. 

Isn't the whole idea of direct delivery supposed to be that it goes to your inventory without any further fussing about it? In many cases a box isn't necessary.

Czari the updating landmarks sound great. And thank you for being a merchant who puts landmarks into a note card in the product box or folder. I don't know about others but I notice those things when deciding whether to shop at a place more often.

I also really appreciate when a merchant includes a photo of the product. As an inventory grows, it's so helpful to have a photo of something rather than have to wear or rez things just to know what it is.

[Rya Nitely]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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I have never had anyone say to me, or overheard someone say, or seen someone say that they didn't buy a product just because it was boxed or in a folder and that was their sole reason.  

 

---

That's probably true, but not buying is a pretty high threshold of preference. I'd expectt a business to want to be much more sensitive and responsive to customer preferences than to merely avoid doing something that customers actually

report

as stopping a sale. I see SL merchants doing all sorts of things to polish their brands -- things of which customers aren't even consciously

aware

, let alone report.

Here's a possibility for illustration only; I have no idea whether it's true. It could be that some share of Marketplace purchasers subconsciously assess boxed delivery to be old-fashioned, a kind of carry-over from the bad old days of Magic Boxes.

I

can

say with certainty that I, at least, had a significantly better impression of merchants who adopted Direct Delivery, back during the early transition; at that point, getting a folder of stuff really did signify that the merchant was still engaged enough to adopt the new method. (That's a little clouded now, of course, by the possibility that the merchant has no in-world presence at all--which is why I avoid buying anything that has no "See in Second Life" link, or where that link goes to a defunct location.)

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I agree with all this.

It did take a lot more time and effort to unpack boxes and rename folders  (taking out the word box) when converting to the folder system. Just transferring boxes from Magic Box to Merchant Outbox would have been so much faster and easier.  But I believed folders were better. I believed folders would be more convenient for customers and for myself, and I'm glad I made the effort.

When I look at the forum responses here, I feel reassured that I made the right choice. What others do is their own concern. 

Not everything is suitable for folders, as people have mentioned - Rez foo packages, fat packs etc. But most items are suitable.

I also think that boxes are a carry-over from Magic Boxes, and merchants are reluctant to give them up. Some merchants have taken great pride in creating pretty boxes, which they are very proud of. When Direct Delivery was first introduced, not having to box items was supposed to be one of the main advantages. But instead the idea was greeted with a great amount of protest from merchants.

There are so many advantages in delivering items in folders - a big one for me is the use of the contents tab. Manage listings has a 'View Contents' tab where I check permissions and content before I list the item. And then there is the advantage to the customer of not having to rez, open or wear a box etc. and also being able to check the contents tab.

It is nice to have a back up box. This is the only disadvantage I can see in receiving items in a folder. But a backup copy isn't hard to make when you can just make a copy of the folder and call it 'name' copy. But this one disadvantage isn't enough to make me prefer boxes.

[Rya Nitely]

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Melita Magic wrote:

 

Isn't the whole idea of direct delivery supposed to be that it goes to your inventory without any further fussing about it? In many cases a box isn't necessary.

 

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That was why it was called Direct Delivery. Not needing to unbox items was supposed to be the main advantage.