The Impact Of Server Side Baking

[JWabbit]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I use the V3 too but there's one thing missing from it that I often want, and that's the current location coordinates. With V1s you can move around until you are at the coordinates where you want to be (e.g. when looking for an object at a specific location) but the coordinates are not shown in the V3.

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Right click on the address/info bar and select "Show Coordinates."  Maybe that's what you are looking for.

[NiranV Dean]

I think i should come to work here aswell.

When i started merging SSB, everything was still in the middle if "development", therefor alot of things were still subject to change and i probably just hit a very bad moment to merge SSB as it broke my RLVa in alot of places. "Broke" in terms of it prevented my Viewer from compiling without changes. Changes i dont know, changes people like Henri probably do easily, left-handed while drinking coffee and writing with an annoying girlfriend, all at the same time without even starting to sweat. You have to keep in mind that Henri is a "professional coder" since many years, thats something i'm further away than our galaxy from the next. Its something that might be very easy for him but it wasnt for me, therefor my complains about breaking RLVa and i didn't want to release a Viewer without RLVa nor don't i like botching in other people's (Kitty Barnett's) stuff.

 

Also, as far as i understood Henri's comment, he was trying to say that it is really not that hard to fix and he would have expected others to fix it easily aswell (especially Firestorm which is a whole huge Team of developers who didnt seem to be able to fix it without Kitty's help).

 

I respect Henri's work and his opinion about certain things, i like how he "deals" with LL, kicking their butts from time to time, thats something LL has earned i guess.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

well Niran..

i never tried your viewer before...im a huge firestorm fan, and except this viewer, i never liked any of the others. 

i just did somedays ago... 

and you know what.. i liked it right away... this was the first time my cam was so smooth.. i could even enable the shadows, what i could never do before, with any of the other viewers.

i dont use RLV, so well i may understand you are still no satisfied with your work.. but let me tell you really honnestly, that imho, you should be proud...maybe you are not a professional coder, but if so, you are awesomely talented for a non-coder...

On top you are the only one who fixed the line bug problem when we do large screenshots..

im still using Firestorm on a daily basis, bec this is the one i know the best... but yours is still in my comp and i planed to learn it quick for being as at comfy than in firestorm and i ll prob use it a lot...

i really loved your viewer.. since i used Emerald, then Phoenix and then Firestorm its the first time it happens to me to like another viewer than my usual ones like this.

[Tomos Halsey]

Server Side Baking will make it actually lighter on your computer because all the avatar baking will be done on the SIM and not by your computer so it will make sl lighter on your rig when loading avatar skin information.

[Abbey Eldridge]

for my laptop im thinking i dont have the graphics i need cuz everythin is pink so i cant really use it

[Argus Collingwood]

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Abbey Eldridge wrote:

for my laptop im thinking i dont have the graphics i need cuz everythin is pink

so i cant really use it

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Pink means you need a driver update I believe that will fix it,

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Abbey Eldridge wrote:

for my laptop im thinking i dont have the graphics i need cuz everythin is pink

so i cant really use it

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From the Firestorm wiki about your pb : 

The World is Pink

If you are seeing everything pink, the issue is outdated drivers. The best solution is to install the Catalyst 12.01 driver (which may imply reverting to an older version than you currently have); links are provided in the section "Known Good ATI Driver", below.

If for any reason you are unable to update to 12.01, then you can try 12.6 - see here.

If this too is not an option:

• Enable the Advanced menu with Ctrl-Alt-D, if it isn't already
• Then Advanced → Debug settings → RenderMaxTextureIndex → Set this to zero
• This should fix the pink textures but may also cause a drop in your FPS (Frames per second)

Alternately, you can go to Preferences → Graphics -> Hardware Settings → Enable OpenGL Vertex Buffer Objects - and disable that.

[Dillon Levenque]

What do you guys have against pink? It's like my favorite color!

[Deltango Vale]

"Anyone who imagines differently should explain why they think that TPVs saved SL."

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TPVs saved SL because V2 was a disaster of galactic magnitude. Phoenix and Firestorm have been adopted by the vast majority of SL residents because the V2 viewer was an unholy kludge based on a misplaced philosophy, designed by a rogue team in secret without any input from the userbase then patched like crazy as a result of howls of protest from every corner of SL. I remember even Desmond Shang - yes, calm, cool and collected Desmond Shang - holding his nose at V2, pleading with LL to fix it because he HAD to use it to avoid liability should anything go wrong inworld. Thank all the gods for TPVs.

[adamsky Draconia]

Well for me it means retirement from sl I will no longer be useing ll after being forced on to the stupid v3 source code its going to break phoenix and IM not gona switch to ll viewers or firestorm both are full of holes I just hope the dicks at ll see this and realize they have just lost of users from sl due to there want to make sl like a stupid Sims game but hey how this my opinion and thank god we still got free speech so I would like to take  the chance to say good bye to all the wonderful folks I met in sl and hope to see u on the other grids that aren't using ssb

 

bye for now

Adam

[Dresden Ceriano]

Goodbye... you will be missed.

...Dres *has done his good deed for the day*

[Czari Zenovka]

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adamsky Draconia wrote:

Well for me it means retirement from sl I will no longer be useing ll after being forced on to the stupid v3 source code its going to break phoenix and IM not gona switch to ll viewers or firestorm both are full of holes I just hope the dicks at ll see this and realize they have just lost of users from sl due to there want to make sl like a stupid Sims game but hey how this my opinion and thank god we still got free speech so I would like to take  the chance to say good bye to all the wonderful folks I met in sl and hope to see u on the other grids that aren't using ssb

 

bye for now

Adam

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You do know that Firestorm is by the same developers/team as Phoenix; therefore if you used Phoenix (which I have for years and love/d) I'm not sure why you would have a concern with "holes" in Firestorm.  I've used third party viewers since shortly after I began SL, beginning with the Nicholaz viewer and have never had any issues with them.

[Marigold Devin]

Firestorm's really not so bad when you tweak it a bit. Its still not as comfortable for me to use as Phoenix, which I've held onto on this desktop.

Another discussion about this over on http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Who-s-ready-for-the-Server-Side-Baking/td-p/2069185

 

Bits of the thread might make you feel even more frustrated, but lets just see what happens when SSB comes in properly. Don't give up just yet. If you like your SL, have a review of your thoughts about other viewers, if your computer is ok to handle them.

[Sy Beck]

Well amazingly you are the first person in this whole thread and the other one currently going who has actually said you won't be able to carry on after SSB.  So many quoted examples of people leaving and you are the first to speak up, bravo to you!

Well I earnestly feel sorry for you not being able to upgrade your computer in the last 5 years or not being able to afford a 5 yr old computer.  I am sure there are many valid reasons, which you do not have to explain here to people who are more fortunate than you.  No doubt your SL friends will miss you in SL, but you still have FB, email and many other methods to communicate by if you and they are true friends.  

On the positive side it can only be a matter of time till you get a new system and are able to rejoin us all.  Who knows, there are so many concerned people here that maybe one or more of them will give you some money to help you towards your goal of rejoining us, we can only wait and see.  Seeing as you are the only one so far who has said that they will have to leave post SSB I think the odds may be in your favour, we shall see.  :smileyhappy:

If you feel you cannot accept any monies proffered please tell us which TPV you would like the money to go to so some independent developer is duly paid the effort of making this code backwards compatible to encompass the last 10 years at least.

Hope to see you back soon and my best wishes.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Sy Beck wrote:

Well amazingly you are the first person in this whole thread and the other one currently going who has actually said you won't be able to carry on after SSB.  So many quoted examples of people leaving and you are the first to speak up, bravo to you!

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The way I read adamsky's post wasn't that he *couldn't* use another viewer but that he didn't want to:

Well for me it means retirement from sl I will no longer be useing ll after being forced on to the stupid v3 source code its going to break phoenix and

IM not gona switch to ll viewers or firestorm both are full of holes.

This statement seems to indicate a decision made by the author rather than not being able to use new viewers due to and older PC, thus my comment that if he had been using Phoenix he wouldn't have to worry about Firestorm having "holes" since it is the same group.

Or I could have misunderstood the entire post.

 Edit: Bolding by me; my entire post wasn't supposed to be italicized - only the quote.

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Sy Beck wrote:

Well amazingly you are the first person in this whole thread and the other one currently going who has actually said you won't be able to carry on after SSB.  So many quoted examples of people leaving and you are the first to speak up, bravo to you!

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The way I read adamsky's post wasn't that he *couldn't* use another viewer but that he didn't want to:

Well for me it means retirement from sl I will no longer be useing ll after being forced on to the stupid v3 source code its going to break phoenix and

IM not gona switch to ll viewers or firestorm both are full of holes.

This statement seems to indicate a decision made by the author rather than not being able to use new viewers due to and older PC, thus my comment that if he had been using Phoenix he wouldn't have to worry about Firestorm having "holes" since it is the same group.

Or I could have misunderstood the entire post.

 Edit: Bolding by me; my entire post wasn't supposed to be italicized - only the quote.

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"IM not gona switch to ll viewers or firestorm both are full of holes."

Whenever I read statements like this I wonder if the Posters have even given an honest try at using the other Viewers or if they are just parroting other peoples prattle.

All Viewers have flaws or shortcomings.  Some Viewers may not meet a User's specific needs.  But these Viewers will all have their strong points also** that will appeal to specific User's.

I do take Linden Lab to task for their failure to improve a few simple things that people have pointed out repeatedly to them which would make it so much more useable, like resizable camera controls.  But generally speaking I don't trash other Viewers first of all because I have never used them, given them an honest run for their money.  I might refer to a problem someone said that they had but I am sure not going to trash them.

 

** The only exception I might make to this is Viewer 2.  That Viewer was like walking through a minefield.  If it had any strong points most of us got blown up before we ever had a chance to find them.

[adamsky Draconia]

ty all for the kind words

 

its not that my pc cant suport it but more that the v3 sorce code is realy badly put together the v1 sorce code was great .

now with the intertuction ove new vier code and server side bakeing comes vunreibilty isues and seems like the entire world is turning in to one giant app now im not old lol but im against app this and app that and i fell that sl is indeed going the way of sims <the game> so to that end im one of the die hards that will stay with pheonix till the end then just quit i have spoken to many who are in the same agrement as me on it .

i just feel ll needs to adress the isues that are wrong before they start destroying  what is working

 

all the best adam

[adamsky Draconia]

im not trashing tpv im trashing the code which all tpv are build on v2/3 sorce code the frame work

 

if a ship has a broken back sure u can patch the skin damage but it still will have a broken spine

 

 

so the main point here is i dont like the fact by interduceing ssb as fact ll has actualy made it mandory if u want to get all from sl. to use there v2/3 sorce code

 

i prefere a choice my choice is v1 sorce code the itch like pheonix use or some other great tpv

[Perrie Juran]

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adamsky Draconia wrote:

ty all for the kind words

 

its not that my pc cant suport it but more that the v3 sorce code is realy badly put together the v1 sorce code was great .

now with the intertuction ove new vier code and server side bakeing comes vunreibilty isues and seems like the entire world is turning in to one giant app now im not old lol but im against app this and app that and i fell that sl is indeed going the way of sims <the game> so to that end im one of the die hards that will stay with pheonix till the end then just quit i have spoken to many who are in the same agrement as me on it .

i just feel ll needs to adress the isues that are wrong before they start destroying  what is working

 

all the best adam

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So the real issue here is that you are not happy with the direction you think LL is heading, to coin a word, the Facebookification of SL?  That's a legitimate concern that some if not many of us have. 

I also agree that there are long standing issues that should have been addressed first.  But I also realize that sometimes I don't know the complexity of fixing those things.  One of my hopes is that the changes they are making will allow them to also finally fix some other long standing issues.  I'm not going to hold my breath over that but it is a hope.

You mentioned 'vulnerability issues.'  This is really the first time I can think of that I have read someone say that the new code, etc, is introducing new vulnerability issues.  What issues are there?  This would be something that would concern all of us.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

You mentioned 'vulnerability issues.'  This is really the first time I can think of that I have read someone say that the new code, etc, is introducing new vulnerability issues.  What issues are there?  This would be something that would concern all of us.

 

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I'd like to know more about that as well if there are indeed valid issues.  I know there are some people who won't use any TPV because they are concerned about who sees their password but, having used TPVs since 2007, I personally haven't had any issues.  Adam mentions having used Phoenix so just using a TPV doesn't seem to be his concern; just ones based entirely on v3 code if I'm understanding his posts correctly.

[adamsky Draconia]

corect v3 sorce code is were i have my isues

[Vania Chaplin]

I thin that we caught this, but you mentioned 'vulnerabilities' in the code. What vulnerabilities?

[Phil Deakins]

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Deltango Vale wrote:

"Anyone who imagines differently should explain why they think that TPVs saved SL."

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TPVs saved SL because V2 was a disaster of galactic magnitude. Phoenix and Firestorm have been adopted by the vast majority of SL residents because the V2 viewer was an unholy kludge based on a misplaced philosophy, designed by a rogue team in secret without any input from the userbase then patched like crazy as a result of howls of protest from every corner of SL. I remember even Desmond Shang - yes, calm, cool and collected Desmond Shang - holding his nose at V2, pleading with LL to fix it because he HAD to use it to avoid liability should anything go wrong inworld. Thank all the gods for TPVs.

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The V2 was a disaster. I won't argue against that And I won't argue against the idea that TPVs were a godsend at that time, BUT...

There is no way that SL would have gone under if the only choice was the V2. Some people actually liked it, some people actually loved it, some people got used to it, new arrivals got used to it because it's what they got, and so on. Some people may have abandoned SL if the only choice was the V2, of course, but there is no way that the V2 would have caused SL to go under if it had been the only choice. Many of us would have moaned and complained but most of us would not have walked out.

What TPVs did at that time was save US from the V2. They didn't save SL.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Deltango Vale wrote:

"Anyone who imagines differently should explain why they think that TPVs saved SL."

-----------------------------------------

TPVs saved SL because V2 was a disaster of galactic magnitude. Phoenix and Firestorm have been adopted by the vast majority of SL residents because the V2 viewer was an unholy kludge based on a misplaced philosophy, designed by a rogue team in secret without any input from the userbase then patched like crazy as a result of howls of protest from every corner of SL. I remember even Desmond Shang - yes, calm, cool and collected Desmond Shang - holding his nose at V2, pleading with LL to fix it because he HAD to use it to avoid liability should anything go wrong inworld. Thank all the gods for TPVs.

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The V2 was a disaster. I won't argue against that

And I won't argue against the idea that TPVs were a godsend at that time, BUT...

There is no way that SL would have gone under if the only choice was the V2. Some people actually liked it, some people actually loved it, some people got used to it, new arrivals got used to it because it's what they got, and so on. Some people may have abandoned SL if the only choice was the V2, of course, but there is no way that the V2 would have caused SL to go under if it had been the only choice. Many of us would have moaned and complained but most of us would not have walked out.

What TPVs did at that time was save US from the V2. They didn't save SL.

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the very first version was the disaster that really set the bad tone..

mainly because that stupid side bar didn't actually come out from the side like it popped up from nowhere..

it's like it was just hiding  there..

your whole screen just moved over to the side  to show the bar..so if you had stuff on the edge of the screen on the left side..it disapeard  off screen LOL

oh and those stupid camera buttons..where you had to click to get to the other placements  like turn or  rotate around something..then click a button for the up and down and side to side camera movements..

it was a joke..

 

when they fixed the side bar to where it actually popped out and didn't move anything else and then the buttons and some other crap..

it wasn't that bad at all..

but when v3 came out ..that's the one i really loved..

 

it just felt like so much more screen space..kind of like the browser version had..

where even in the v1  and v2 it felt crowded..but v3 was like..omg where is this extra air coming from?

i like it!! lol

i couldn't wait for the TPV's to start working on the V3's..but it took them a bit before they got around to it..

they were still messing with v2's

i think catznip was the actual first v3 tpv..then i believe firestorm prealpha or dolphin were the next..

i forget which one of those two got on it next..

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

I can't disagree with anything you wrote, Ceka. The first V2 did just what you said it did, and so on.

I thought so highly of the V3 when it came out that I started a thread in praise of it. After a while they 'improved' it so that I couldn't stay logged in for more than a few seconds - and I wasn't the only one affected by that. But they dealt with it and I use the LL V3 for my main avatar now.

Perhaps the TPVs were slow getting to the V3 because they don't create their own viewers. They modify LL's viewer, that all, and maybe LL didn't release the V3 code so quickly.