Offer to LL about merchants - please Linden Lab READ!

[Tahoma Deka]

I wonder why everyone can become merchant on marketplace? On every respectful selling sites you need at least to verify yourself somehow - credit card or another rl info. Here on marketplace every alt and copybotter can list stuff and get money. Who suffers from this? Only original creator and buyer for known reasons. I bought some things recently spending over 10000 lindens and got message in a while all is deleted because of DMCA. AND WHAT??? I did not get any compensation nor creator who was ripped off - only copybotter got successfully my money and disappeared. So i researched a bit and found his store on marketplace with new name and selling same items - same copybotted items!!!

As i understand LL gets their profit as 5% and it is awful if they are interested to support thieves.  And it makes me sad because I cant be sure in game who supports thieves.

My offer is to make some veryfication for merchants. Merchant must have payment info or to be premium member at least. I am sure it will reduce copybotters stores amount cos they are not interested to disclose themselves. 

I am sure honest merchants would support this offer. It would show respect to buyers and sl merchants and make marketplace site more safe for both.

PLEASE LINDEN LAB RESPECT YOUR PLAYERS! Getting money is serious thing so please LL do not let thieves to rip us off!

[Sephina Frostbite]

Thats why I only buy through names I can trust.

[Iren Tinkel]

as old shoppers we know we should check merchant before and blabhblab but i'm sure tons of noobs pay to copybotters and lose thier stuff and money when dmca filled. marketplace is paradise for thieves - here i agree. just once one is blocked he creates new alt and posts same products and you can break your head filling dmca again and again.so i agree - it has to be some verification

[Couldbe Yue]

When LL suggested a merchant verification a few years back, the outcry was deafening.  The main complaints against using a premium account from what I remember was that it was unfair to people who couldn't afford it or didn't need it.

They also wanted to put in place a mechanism for merchants to confirm that all the components used in their builds were legit.  For anyone who doesn't create all their own stuff (scripts, textures, animations, sculpts etc) it's impossible to confirm that because you really don't know if the creator you bought them from didn't rip them.  Sad but true.

 

[LillyBeth Filth]

IMVU.com which is Second Life's main competitor and has over 100,000 people logged on at any time, make their merchants go through a process to become a merchant.

They have to PAY to become a VIP member (Premium) and STAY premium if they want to become a developer.  Linden Labs are missing a huge amount of revenue by not following suit on this alone But more importantly perhaps, the by becoming a premium member you are by default disclosing your RL ID to Linden Labs. 

Then they have to read and agree to the TOS related to being a merchant and this includes information about Copyright etc

Then, they have to have their content approved by other members of IMVU.com initially. They look for obvious things like Trademark violations and test the animations etc.

Finally. There is no such thing as a "Freebie" section on the IMVU Marketplace. If you want something you have to pay for it..Fancy that! LOL 

As I say, IMVU has over 100K people logged on at any one time. So the lack of freebies aren't putting people off.

I don't like IMVU as an experience but I do admire how organized and ethical the creators are at least trying to be about people selling content on their platform. 

[Pamela Galli]

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LillyBeth Filth wrote:

IMVU.com which is Second Life's main competitor and has over 100,000 people logged on at any time, make their merchants go through a process to become a merchant.

They have to PAY to become a VIP member (Premium) and STAY premium if they want to become a developer.  Linden Labs are missing a huge amount of revenue by not following suit on this alone But more importantly perhaps, the by becoming a premium member you are by default disclosing your RL ID to Linden Labs. 

Then they have to read and agree to the TOS related to being a merchant and this includes information about Copyright etc

Then, they have to have their content approved by other members of IMVU.com initially. They look for obvious things like Trademark violations and test the animations etc.

Finally. There is no such thing as a "Freebie" section on the IMVU Marketplace. If you want something you have to pay for it..Fancy that! LOL 

As I say, IMVU has over 100K people logged on at any one time. So the lack of freebies aren't putting people off.

I don't like IMVU as an experience but I do admire how organized and ethical the creators are at least trying to be about people selling content on their platform. 

---

THIS!

 

IMVU is close enough to SL (unlike "video games") that this is a good comparison. 

 

We have had numerous discussions about this even recently. There are all kinds of variations of this theme, many not involving premium membership, but even just PIOF. 

I really think buyers would feel and BE safer if they knew merchants had some kind of vetting AND that they still even had an inworld account.

Right now, anyone can make an alt and sell empty boxes or ripped content. That's not good for anyone.

 

 

[Ciaran Laval]

I've looked at the IMVU forums before, it's wishful thinking to think that DMCA and ripped content isn't an issue over there.

[Pamela Galli]

Crime is an issue everywhere, RL and SL. It can never be eliminated. But that's no reason to abandon all efforts to minimize it.

All we can do is lock our doors and plant thorny bushes under our windows to somewhat reduce our vulnerability.

[Iren Tinkel]

If somebody wants to have own land in sl - he needs to get premium acc and nobody thinks its unfair. If you want land you get premium, if you want more support - you get premium, if you want uploading mesh - you fill application (simple and stupit but anyway), if you want to visit adult even there you should verify. But if you want post items for sell on official site and get money from other people (which supposes some responsibility at least) - you just go and post! It is unfair - that's what I think.

[Czari Zenovka]

I would definitely support at minimum PIOF.  That would get rid of the "throw-away" accounts that sell copybot items.  I would also support merchants having to be Premium *IF* that came with some additional features that would be beneficial, such as X number of texture uploads without charge (IW does not charge anything for texture uploads as an example), or the tier free parcel being upped to 1024 so beginning merchants could have more than 117 prims for their first store, etc.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Iren Tinkel wrote:

If somebody wants to have own land in sl - he needs to get premium acc and nobody thinks its unfair. If you want land you get premium, if you want more support - you get premium, if you want uploading mesh - you fill application (simple and stupit but anyway), if you want to visit adult even there you should verify. But if you want post items for sell on official site and get money from other people (which supposes some responsibility at least) - you just go and post! It is unfair - that's what I think.

---

I don't disagree with the essence of your post/opinion, but one does not have to be premium to "have" land in SL.  You said "own" land so technically you are correct, but just wanted to add that many, many merchants, including some very large, successful ones, have gone the route of renting land/estates/etc. because it works better for them.

[Ciaran Laval]

You don't have to be premium to own an island.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Ciaran Laval wrote:

You don't have to be premium to own an island.

---

Do you mean renting an island from the owner or purchasing an island directly from LL?

A friend and I have actually been discussing this lately:  I know when Homesteads were first introduced one had to own an estate (are you using the term "island" for an "estate" or a "Homestead"?).  Does that still apply or can someone now purchase a Homestead without already owning an estate sim?

Also, did the rules for Homesteads not having any commercial enterprise on them change at all?

(Been meaning to research this.)

[Ciaran Laval]

I mean you can own an Island without being a premium member, you pay Linden Lab directly, you're still a basic account. When I say Island I mean a full region ... sorry, didn't mean to confuse.

The rules on homesteads still apply, you need to own an Island first before you can buy one, unless you're an educator, although light commercial use is allowed on them, I'm not sure whether LL enforce this rule.

[Spica Inventor]

Can't L.L. block individual computer addresses from accessing S.L.?

[Iren Tinkel]

you still need to pay by credit card or convert lindens that means you need to have at least payment info - whatever you need to provide LL with part of your RL info. theme of topic is somehow making merchants to identify themselves as i understand and i gave the examples of required verification for less meaningful benefits of sl but you really can post WHATEVER you want on marketplace just creating alt without any requirements (as i remember you only need to be 7 days old or like that to create store on market)

[Czari Zenovka]

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

I mean you can own an Island without being a premium member, you pay Linden Lab directly, you're still a basic account. When I say Island I mean a full region ... sorry, didn't mean to confuse.

The rules on homesteads still apply, you need to own an Island first before you can buy one, unless you're an educator, although light commercial use is allowed on them, I'm not sure whether LL enforce this rule.

---

Wow!  I never knew that about a purchasing a full region directly from LL without being premium.  Thank you for clearing up my questions about homesteads as well.

[Ciaran Laval]

There's a good page about accounts on the knowledgebase:

Accounts Overview.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Ciaran Laval wrote:

There's a good page about accounts on the knowledgebase:

Accounts Overview.

---

Dangit for no Kudos buttons on this forum!

Thank you again.

[Poenald Palen]

LL makes money selling land that allows prims to be rezz'd. Sandboxes are free, true. But, they are also just not allowing some things and some things are impractical. This pushes people to rent. Those landlords take risk away from LL. LL has every monitary insentive to do oen of two things.

You are sort of not considering some things, or are but think that there is no other way for LL. There is a controlled, easier to deal with (legally speaking) way. Do not allow anyone tomake content, or restrict selling. ONLY sellable content from LL hired (working at a physical location) and the same employees can handle making assets for any other LL projects...LL is NOT SECOND LIFE...this is the new way, the new focus.

They simply hire some of you all to move to cali..oh...expensive..uh, forget cali...heck, just somewhere cheaper and close. They can have a lawyer team stay there, obviously lower wages with that to maybe? Maybe Arizona? Nevada? Oregan? Heck, Microsoft is in washington...seattle is a bit f a word famous place. Maybe people may like tomove there as well? Oregan is neat for bicycles. Arizona has been growing, pheonix is sprawled out and the weather is warm. Even some of the slopes and fun hiking and outdoors stuff up around Utah, Colorado or even just another place entirely...heck, india!? Venuzuala? They have artists all over the world, studios that already exist may also handle it...heck, that way they can use third parties for different projects and even have them compete and bid on projects!!

Seariously....they don't need you IF they are to get into having ot review content!!! This is lawyer stuff, they are expensive!!! Yes, IMVU doe this already. But, they have a  more restricted environment and have always had review and acceptability issues. I am not saying they will not do it....I am saying the philosophy of SL is different.

But, to be honest I also can see how the "LL is NOT SL." argument as working in another way. Just add "This is not the old days. Snow Crash is just a freakin' book...you are NOT cyberpunks either..not for real...you don't destroy the system by ripping someones loafers!!" argument and I sort of agree. At one time SL was a free country. Then the FBI thretened them, so they sacrificed gambling, the DMCAct came along and they moved to make mesh (a larger threat due to almost exact likeness...things really did change there!) have PIOF and a statement signed via your interaction with a tutorial. You are supposed to know, it is NOT LL's fault now. Maybe some kind of similar agreement will be on the way anyway? It is just...well...basically WHY look at everything and then get into troubnle yourself? Tazer took LL to court! The copyright issues prove LL a forseer...or basically experiencer via tazer lawsuite) and if they didn't see it, it is not their fault. It is LESS lawyer talk, less money out for consultancy (or lower retaining fees or whatever) so...I mean, seriously.

It is easier to simply get your own builders building or hire a studio that takes full responsability. But, that is what they do a little bit now. But it failed more or less. There are builders that throw up exact replicas, not just close to it the way many big game companies will handle non-sponsered or allowed vehicles. They make something that is a blend of a few, something in teh style catagory with a few hints of the era, tech type or whatever it is. I mean, a pair of jeans can be distinct via pocket sewing pattern, label logo (duh lol) and other features. Just make it different, viola...done! So...why doesn't LL just do that themselves? 90% of newer folks maynot care. They don't care about early adopter tech, they are late comers...SL is old news. Does LL really need 1000 different people selling 5 styles of jeans? Sure! Why? Why not! If you redce it to lower amounts via being more restrictive...well, it gets more difficult. I understand PIOF, and this is fine for most. I am not defending having no PIOF, I am simply stating that I think LL also have more options to solve the issue you speak of and make much more of a percent than what they do now. Though...I am not a studio boss in India pitching this! Just a hunch and a little look at LL's other dealings, direction and basically....you can only make so many user created worlds and the present projects are not flat blank landscapes...even SL took initernal developement.

Do I need to even mention Linden Homes/Neighbourhods for premium? Do I need to mention thier adventure places, free gifts etc? Why do people think there is only ONE solution to a problem? IF it is continually a headache to deal with merchants and creators....maybe they will have another problem from the headache of this all and simply make a in house studio....heck, since many web hosts went on to make things like Wordpress and various propriatory in house CMS systems with easy web dev stuff....heck, maybe LL could come up with a 100 games, a wordpress 3D equivelent and hosting for these new 3D web places and throw all of SL out as a museum item to be visited...NO NEW CONTENT!!! No more headaches. Just a new future with your new version of 3D hosting...the real business of what SL is. Hosting places to have fun, hosting creative environments, hosting places to see and experience with more than just your eyes even...sounds, maybe even haptic feedback and smell(yes...more advanced and neater than teh smellovision jokes of the old days!)....maybe LL IS closer to the future than we think, maybe they ony wait for the tech to speed things up a bit...then SL gets less interesting as a place...the web is huge, if you want a killer app it will most likely be on a computer....in a browser...or at least that is where many applicitoins and computing is ending up. The cluster of processing power out there is begging for faster internet speeds.....you can't compete against the Web. It is the lion king of the Internet! Yes, SL is part of the internet...so is FTP, and other stuff...uh, like IRC or AIM chat or skype. The web browser is mighty, unstoppable...it even challanges the desktop! THink not? Nettops! NET tops....yes, they are connected (in the case of Googles Chrome) to the web. Cloud computing is a big household thing..or at least will be....you can't compete against that. Why would LL worry about competing? It is just waiting to see what is up. They see iPhones doing well...so, along compes interest in apps.

So. In short. The web is mighty, it is all mighty of the Internetworks!!!! LL is not competing, it is only doing what it needs to do...one day SL will be a bride to the internet....they will merge, as our minds contents merge....as they all mingle and create new via Artificial Intelligent agent creation devices....we will see the web create, as it was created...thier will be light that is not seen anywhere on earth...it will be openGL based or some other...we will experience sensations via interfazes over the net...they will not be anything we have experienced....new tastes, new smells....the web will organize, create...it does not have to be as smart as a human....it can create anyway. Or, should I say the ones who make the systems and software for it create...together. Man and machine, virtual world and real world....the future is integration....you are less important than the whole while being more important than you have ever been...JOIN TEH SINGULARITY....for 3 easy payments of 39.99 and if you call before 10PM we will throw in a free cushioned Gel vat with set of pillowed restraints to hold you dead still through your brain Tx/Rx interface sessions....experience the future in climate controlled comfort with less bruising and bumps as well as no lag in gell heting and cooling....feel the thrills of the sauna or gently decend from a high altitude and smash into volcanic pools of molten rock and feel the real pain...all in safety, with simulated heat to gradually ease you in with a more real feeling....the obviously deadly het is only simulated via your mind...no actual harm....sleep well at night knowing you can be eaten by a fire breathing dragon (after raosting) and not recieve burns like ungell assisted lazer and saline systems have had in the past! BUY TODAY!

Uh...yeah....basically I have no clue what to do and figure LL will do as they please anyway! BUT, fun to think about the future...even if it is way off base and has no basis.

[nuria Augapfel]

Absolutely agree with the OP and the issue. Please, at least PIOF required to be able to sell items through Marketplace!!!

[Jack Abraham]

I'd feel more comfortable shopping on the Marketplace if all merchants had to be PIOF or, better yet, Premium. If listers had to be Premium and their items were de-listed if they lapsed, that'd also help clean out some cruft.

[Knowl Paine]

I do not agree.

All Account types, should be allowed to sell products.

 

I suggest for the Market Place Team, to create additional options at Market Place, which will allow Consumers to readily make informed purchases.

It is my opinion, that Residents who are MP Merchants, operate Publicly within the SL Community, and in doing so, those Residents should be visible in the Inworld Search.

Everything needs to be voluntary. Product ranking in Listings, could be connected to a Resident's Activity. (as it should be)

 

[Medhue Simoni]

Well, after reading most of this thread, I do have an idea that might work for every1. LL could post our status underneath our names on the product page. So, basically, if you are premium, it says you are premium. If you are PIOF, then it says that. If you are a newb, it says nothing. This way the buyer knows, without having to look you up.

LL could also give us a merchant status directly based on our total sales. So, if you are a big time merchant, with major sales daily, then you get a big merchant badge. If you are a merchant that sells a medium volume, then you get a different merchant badge. If you are a newb, you get no badge at all until you reach a certain level of sales for an extended amount of time.

In both of these examples, there is no restrictions at all. I'm not for any restrictions, but I am for consumers being informed. Both of these that I suggest, give the consumer relevant info at their fingertips.

[Porky Gorky]

First idea is spot on.

Second idea could be exploited by account hackers. Would put a flashing red light above accounts that would likely have a higher volume of L$ on hand at any given time. Sure, at the moment a hacker could take an educated guess at which accounts would be good to hit, but this would make it much more easier for them.