I want a skybox that's hard to find

[Jennifer Boyle]

I have been thinking of trying to make a skybox that would be hard for people to find.  If I put one at 4,000 m and texture the outside with a transparent texture how easy would be to find?  I know if I was in it people could see the dot on the map, and, presumably, if they had the patience to fly all the way up to it, they could detect it by bumping into it, and then could cam inside.  Is there any other way people could find it besides running into it, either by chance or while chasing a dot on the map?

How is the volume protected by security devices shaped?  Is it spherical? Cylindrical?  For guarding this box it wouldn't work if it was a cylinder reaching the ground, but what would be ideal would be a cylinder that reached down to about 500 m.

[Cerise Sorbet]

Objects are easy to find if somebody is looking for them.

The situation for security systems rigth now is much better than it was even a few months ago. The llGetAgentList function has made it so that it is very simple to detect anyone on or near your land without elaborate sensors; the shape of the area you want to protect, and the altitude of the avatars, no longer matters.

The older sensor based systems worked on spherical samples, and could not look too far past the maximum build height. The sensing prims could move around to cover arbitrary shapes, but not all simultaneously. It was close enough for most purposes, though.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

My sky platform is hard to find.  It's nothing more than a flat platform the approximate shape and size of my 512 meter plot of land.  It's not textured with anything fancy like transparency........it's just some weird texture I made years ago (blue at the moment but since I made the texture black and white, I can change the colors quite easily).  I have no security orbs (the reason is that I just don't need one.....but, perhaps more importantly, I hate security orbs).  For the past 3 years or so that I've had that platform at 4001 meters I've seen exactly 0 (zero) passerbys.  I'm sure my nieghbors know I have the platform though if their draw distance to far enough since I can see there sky boxes/plafforms from mine (my draw distance is almost set at 256 meters) but they pretty much mind their own business........as far as I know they've never come over to look my place over (though I know they could cam in if they choose to do so).  There just ain't no privacy in SL.....as long as you know that and act accordingly, there's no problem.  You can't hide and trying to do so is only going to get frustrating......and I don't have time to be frustrated in SL.

[Pussycat Catnap]

The most effective strategy I ever had for hiding my sky home back in the day when there was a mainland (...) was to just build an "attractive nuissance" at ground. I put up a nice gazebo, a teahouse, and some plants. Only one person ever came by the sky home uninvited - while dozens a day stopped into the garden.

Hiding by being out in the open with something else - distraction - is very effective.

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

You can't hide any structures. Never.
If an object is rezzed, area search will find it. Especially the search in the latest Firestorm-Version.
It even offers a 'Teleport to'-function.

Security orbs: What is covered, depends on the device used. Some simply cover a sphere with a given radius,
others cover the whole parcel horizontally and the whole free air above it vertically
(0 to maximum height above ground technically possible ).
The best ones have a graphical setup, you drag a box across the area you want to protect and all that is inside
that box is protected.
I do warn against the dumb security orbs, that simply kick out everything regardless of the height above ground,
I consequently AR those, if I get kicked out of free air - 100%.(Harassment > Impeding movement)

Oh, and putting a transparent texture on the skybox, or setting the outer face to transparent doesn't hide the skybox,
it only makes it easier to watch, what is going on inside the box.

Basically, a skybox @ 4000m is not hidden, it is only considerably less obvious than a house on the ground.

 And I have to agree with Pussycat here, a distraction on the ground works. Besides, it's much nicer to the eye.

 

[Bree Giffen]

Just uncheck the box that says something like 'Avatars can be seen and chat with avatars outside the parcel'. That makes you invisible unless they go into your parcel and you can probably put enough security orbs to clean people off the parcel.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

 

I do warn against the dumb security orbs, that simply kick out everything regardless of the height above ground,

I consequently AR those, if I get kicked out of free air - 100%.(Harassment > Impeding movement)

 

---

AR for not violating the TOS?

Assuming the orb is limited to within its owner's land - there's no TOS violation.

Annoying or not, if someone owns the lot, they can do what they desire in it. It can be a nuissance, but they're not "TOS wrong" for booting everything -within- the land they own.

If they start spamming people outside the land they own, that is another issue which is ARable. But within their own land, they can toss out anyone they desire with or without warning.

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

The minimum I expect is a warning and enough time to leave the parcel/sim.
Not everyone has property lines visible and at 500m above ground, one cannot be expected
to move exactly around a certain parcel. I have been taken out of free air multiple times without any warning.
In those cases, an AR will be filed. 100%.

Btw. I treat the free air above a parcel in SL as it is treated by air traffic control/FAA/DFA in real life.
Minimum flight level to not disturb the people on the ground and not permanently circling above a parcel.

And before you call me egoistic, it is not about me, it is about the whole flying community.
Everyone suffers, when security devices take people out of free air without warning.

 And that some property owners are too dumb to setup their security devices isn't something new.
When I do a tour with a Yavascript tour pod, I usually get 10 to 20 warnings from misconfigured devices.
I also have been kicked out of the pod  by security orbs. Since these pods are waypoint controlled only,
they never enter any property, that is not owned by Linden Lab. In other words, these devices reach into public space.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

Annoying and what the rules are is not the same.

Free air? If its over somebody's land, that its their "air", and you are there as their guest, even if only for the half second it takes to fly through.

Filing those ARs is pointless. But apparantly the policy against filing frivilous ARs only applies to the SL website, and not inworld...

And those orbs do not reach into public space in terms of anything but chat. They use the eject function - which requires land permissions to use. You cannot eject someone out of linden owned land unless you are a linden.

So if you're getting spammed by them when on linden land - AR that. But be sure you were on linden land. If you are getting sent home, you were not on linden land. Its simply impossible in SL scripting.

 

Citing the FAA and so on - this is basically a video game. The FAA has no more control here than they do control over dragons flying over cities in World of Warcraft. I would severely caution against looking to the FAA for authority over rules inside of SL.

While laws about civil rights and harrasment can apply - because these are attacks against a RL person by another RL person - and laws about chattel property can apply, becuase of goods RL money was paid to obtain... SL is not reality, it is a "video game" in a sense. Even for folks that sit there and argue that its not a game... it is not the physical real world. Its just an online community, an MMO, a chatroom.

 

Many people confuse what they want, what is right, what is polite - with rules. The rules are -NOT- what we might find polite.

You should understand that I'm not saying I think its right for them to be tossing people about and out. Not saying I agree with their manners over this. Just saying that on the rules - your stance is not correct.

You might be morally right, but you're stance is TOS incorrect.

Best practices for being ethical might be to give people more warning - but that is NOT the same thing as the rules.

 

[Jennifer Boyle]

---

Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

Oh, and putting a transparent texture on the skybox, or setting the outer face to transparent doesn't hide the skybox,

it only makes it easier to watch, what is going on inside the box.

 

---

I don't understand this.

[Jennifer Boyle]

---

Bree Giffen wrote:

Just uncheck the box that says something like 'Avatars can be seen and chat with avatars outside the parcel'. That makes you invisible unless they go into your parcel and you can probably put enough security orbs to clean people off the parcel.

---

Thank you!  Great idea.  In fact, exactly what I was looking for.

I can make a parcel especially for the skybox, exclude everyone but me from the parcel, and use that setting.  No one can come in, and no one can see in.

Anybody have any thoughts about why that would not work?

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

That the FAA has no jurisdiction here is a point, that doesn't even needed to be discussed here.
I brought it up fo another reason: In RL, the land ownership end above a certain height - for a good reason.
And it should be possible to come to a similar agreement/way of handling, basically to stay out of each others hair.
If not, LL can stop giving out vehicles in Amazon welcome packages and premium gifts.
It's no fun, being kicked out of free air every second sim. Flying circles over a sandbox gets boring rather quickly...

I have been kicked out of a tour pod a few times by a security orb on Linden road.
However, these cases are not 100% reproducible. I don't give too much for the permissions system in this regard,
Griefer devices and AnnMarie's cars at the weirdest places are ample proof, that the system isn't fully waterproof.

To make finally one point clear: I have no problem being thrown out without a warning if I accidentially tp into a house or skybox. I guess, that was clear to you from the beginning.

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

It is simple, you can put a different texture on each face of an object.
If you put a transparent texture on one face of that object, you can look through that object from that side.
In practice this happens:
A megaugly club from the outside: http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_427.png
You can look into it.

The same club from the inside: http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_428.png
From the inside, a black wall.

The outside face is set to transparent.

 

[161488303349]

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:

---

Bree Giffen wrote:

Just uncheck the box that says something like 'Avatars can be seen and chat with avatars outside the parcel'. That makes you invisible unless they go into your parcel and you can probably put enough security orbs to clean people off the parcel.

---

Thank you!  Great idea.  In fact, exactly what I was looking for.

I can make a parcel especially for the skybox, exclude everyone but me from the parcel, and use that setting.  No one can come in, and no one can see in.

Anybody have any thoughts about why that would not work?

---

when you set parcel Access to other than Everyone the restriction only applies to 70m above the ground. the yellow banlines. above that height the parcel Access restrictions dont work. so people can still come in your skybox/home if is above 70m above ground level

the only people above that height who cant come in your skybox are them specific named on your Access: Banned list. that strong restriction goes up to 5000m

+

so parcel visibility is the one to use if you up in the sky 4000m. and a sec orb

+

if you up there and you also dont want anyone to see your stuff hardly ever. then use a rezzer. like make a platform and have a owner rezzer on it. when you click then it rezz your skybox. when you leave then can have it delete itself automagically

can also put the rezzer in planet/moon sphere as well. lots of people up in the sky do that way as well

+

if cant be bothered with all that then do the Linden Homes way. live on the ground. Parcel Visibility + Access (not everyone). yellow banlines

this way nobody can come in your house ever. and only people who can ever see you are above the banline box. over your land. and if they are then you can kill them by right-click on them and Eject. like if they stop above your house. is ok if they just flying over in their balloon or plane. is when they stop for a perv, thats when you kill them. is quite fun to do that. bc is more personal than use a sec orb. pervert !!! I am kill you myself (:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[161488303349]

is not AR

can kill/eject anyone on my parcel. anywhere anytime. no warning. is my land. my land goes all the way up to 5000m. that how far the named ban list reaches now. edit: and my kill/eject powers built into the viewer and scripts

only presumed air space rights you got is over linden land. and only bc linden as landowner gives them to you. is not ToS guarantee linden land space rights either. linden can also ban you from any individual parcel they own

can check that by look the WAs ban lists. some avatars are banned from some WAs and not others and are not account banned from SL

 

 

 

[Melita Magic]

---

Jennifer Boyle wrote:

I have been thinking of trying to make a skybox that would be hard for people to find.  If I put one at 4,000 m and texture the outside with a transparent texture how easy would be to find?  I know if I was in it people could see the dot on the map, and, presumably, if they had the patience to fly all the way up to it, they could detect it by bumping into it, and then could cam inside.  Is there any other way people could find it besides running into it, either by chance or while chasing a dot on the map?

How is the volume protected by security devices shaped?  Is it spherical? Cylindrical?  For guarding this box it wouldn't work if it was a cylinder reaching the ground, but what would be ideal would be a cylinder that reached down to about 500 m.

---

You are confusing transparent with camouflage. 

If you put a transparent texture on the outside wall of the skybox (the outside texture to th skybox wall) then people will be able to see IN because that is what transparent means. Makes it clear and see through like glass. Do you want to live in a glass house? Even if you don't throw any stones?

Camouflage might help, in this case, maybe take a snapshot of clouds in world, but that won't work when it's night time...I guess you could also take a photo of the SL sky at night time (stars) and then try to put in a texture change script that is triggered by SL day and night...Camouflage means blending into the surrounding like a chameleon.

But it sounds like what would be best for you is to make your land setting so no one can see in from outside and then also make a ban list or white list or ban line...remember though that ban lines (unless by name) only go up to about 50 meters from the ground.

So really a skybox at 4000 meters, in my opinion you don't need orb or ban line or anything, who is going to fly up that high just to see you and how often? Just my opinion though. But the visibility setting and skybox height should suffice.

Don't use transparent texture on the outside of the skybox or house though unless you want to open a strip club up there...

[Phil Deakins]

You could put the skybox inside a huge invisiprim. That's how some people hid bots at one time. It wouldn't stop a dedicated snooper but it would stop plenty of people.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Invisiprims are no longer supported by viewers that can see mesh.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

It makes no difference what you want or expect. A landowner has complete control of who can access their space from below ground to as high as you can go in SL. They can put security orbs every so many meters so that the entire space is protected and that will boot anyone home that enters without warning. They can freeze you, eject you and ban you for any reason or none at all. No warning of any kind is required. It is their right because they are the ones paying for the space not you. The FAA and RL has nothing whatsoever to do with SL either.

The only purpose your AR's serve is to annoy the Lindens with unwarranted filings or to give them a chuckle when you file them.  You may get the auto form letters to your email, but they are closed without action and go right into the trash.  BTW, people have been known to be suspended or banned for filing too many unwarranted reports, as well they should.  You may even be setting yourself up to be the boy that cried wolf.  One day you may have a legit AR that will be ignored for a long period just because they see your name so much or unwarranted AR's that they are unlikely to give any AR you file much if any priority.

If you want to fly unobstructed then do it over large areas of Linden Land, such as the Blake Sea.  That is what it is there for.  You can also get HUDS on MP that you can put on your screen to show where you are and what areas to avoid.

[Nova Convair]

Hiding in a skybox?

- If you are at home I need one second to find it, when I'm on same sim - just by getting your avatar position.

- If you're not at home I could fly up over your land until I see or hit something - only if I'd have a reason to search for it though - that takes me max 41 seconds at 100m/s boosted flight

- A transparent texture on the outside will make the walls transparent (that you expected) but not your furniture or yourself.

- Ignore the people that want free flight and get a security device - set to short/zero warning time and kick out unwanted asses - that's the only thing that will work if you get unwanted visitors.

- On many sims there will be very few visitors on high altitudes. At my home i have a security orb only monitor the traffic and I get an average of about 3 unknown visitors per year and it's a big build there - so no need for an automated asskicker here.

 

[Coby Foden]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Invisiprims are no longer supported by viewers that can see mesh.

---

To be precise:

 

• If Shadows and Lighting feature is off in a viewer, then the invisiprims still do work (in all viewers).

• If Shadows and Lighting feature is on in a viewer, then invisiprims have no effect at all for that viewer.

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

You could put the skybox inside a huge invisiprim.

---

As more and more people will have Shadows and Lighting feature on, it's very bad idea to use invisiprims any longer.  Invisiprims were a hack, never officially supported by Linden Lab, and now they are broken for all who use Lighting and Shadows feature.

[Melita Magic]

---

Nova Convair wrote:

- Ignore the people that want free flight and get a security device - set to short/zero warning time and kick out unwanted asses - that's the only thing that will work if you get unwanted visitors.

- On many sims there will be very few visitors on high altitudes. At my home i have a security orb only monitor the traffic and I get an average of about 3 unknown visitors per year and it's a big build there - so no need for an automated asskicker here.

 

---

I absolutely hate when people set their orb to zero to ten seconds warning time. As someone else mentioned, too often, orbs scope past the range the owners think it's scoping. It scopes out onto Linden roads, Linden water, and kicks people home. Enjoying a nice, sunny virtual day on a motorbike or sailboat....and bam. Or it even has a kill attached to it, and you get that very unpleasant, 'you are dead' message on top of it.

Then there's lag and the problems of SL travel. A person's internet connection could hiccup and put them where they hadn't intended - crossing through someone's airspace. Or, someone could simply think (rightly in my opinion) that there isn't much harm if none was intended, in floating above the virtual land, crossing through someone's land at several thousand meters high, for a second or two, in their air travels.

At least a sixty second warning gives someone a chance to wake up, read the pop up alert, and steer in the other direction. It's still intrusive in my opinion but it is at least fair.

There is not a lot someone can do (wrong) within sixty seconds time anyway, (that can't be reversed), and if the person is home and the visitor is griefing they can eject them much faster than that, by hand.

If the person's worried about someone installing something bad, set object return on the land, so no one can (easily) rez.

 

[Eileen Fellstein]

Just make huge floating add board advertising something everyone is totally sick of (like I don't know, meeroos or cows or something). Give it a little thickness and build your skybox inside of it.

 

 

speaking of security, I have the worst possible thing going on from a neighbor near my mainland lot. They have a structure at 4k meters and are broadcasting a script that says it's scanning avatar script loads and arc, It pops up a notice with a ban warning on a 20 second timer. The owner of the device does not understnd english and responds to all IM's with a group invite (I assume auto generated as well).

Naturally I can (and did) just block both the user and the object. It can't actually kick or ban anyone from my property but it's an annoyance to any visitors and also makes them think it's my script.

and lol, I would guess this very intrusive script is probably creating more script load on the sim than it claims to be preventing.

I think the zombie apocoplypse just started early:catmad:

[161488303349]

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Melita Magic wrote:

I absolutely hate when people set their orb to zero to ten seconds warning time. As someone else mentioned, too often, orbs scope past the range the owners think it's scoping. It scopes out onto Linden roads, Linden water, and kicks people home. Enjoying a nice, sunny virtual day on a motorbike or sailboat....and bam. Or it even has a kill attached to it, and you get that very unpleasant, 'you are dead' message on top of it.

Then there's lag and the problems of SL travel. A person's internet connection could hiccup and put them where they hadn't intended - crossing through someone's airspace. Or, someone could simply think (rightly in my opinion) that there isn't much harm if none was intended, in floating above the virtual land, crossing through someone's land at several thousand meters high, for a second or two, in their air travels.

At least a sixty second warning gives someone a chance to wake up, read the pop up alert, and steer in the other direction. It's still intrusive in my opinion but it is at least

fair

.

There is not a lot someone can do (wrong) within sixty seconds time anyway, (that can't be reversed), and if the person is home and the visitor is griefing they can eject them much faster than that, by hand.

If the person's worried about someone installing something bad, set object return on the land, so no one can (easily) rez.

 

---

about the scoping out past your own land. i have no idea why the people who make these things allow the homeowner to do this. it cant kill/eject anyone not on the land. like don't they even test the stuff before they make and sell/distribute it

also

is a market for clever orbs. but i never seen any

just say you wants to not have people on your beachfront. so you think ok i will put in a orb

now suppose you could buy a orb thats made like a buoy. can put on the edge your parcel in the water. ok is a visual clue for me on my boat. so thats good

where can be clever is the buoy/orb can scan the waters. when it picks me up then can say:

" warning: on your present course you are approaching a restricted area marked by the buoy. please alter your course. if you do enter the restricted area then you will be removed"

i much rather get this one time warning before i cross into the restricted area. i would actual welcome it. better than get death threats that cant be carried out anyways on my present position. or get no warning until i am in the restricted area. and dont have time to leave under my own power/steam

can even make the buoy a lighthouse. or a seagull maybe that just sit/float on the water

 

 

 

[Dillon Levenque]

I know someone—you know him too, actually—who makes an orb that could be set up that way, or very nearly. I have one. The one thing I don't think it will do is scan outside the protected range; seems to me it had a single range setting. Everything else, though—the messages and the delay times—was user defined. After somone's been dectected inside the range it says something (user defined) like, "You have entered a protected area. You need to leave this area within [a user defined length of time] or risk being ejected". After the time expires the avatar is moved off the parcel.  Since the orb is on a single moddable prim it could certainly be part of a bouy, or even a seagull.

 

ETA more details on the functionality