enforcement of TOS 8.2 (iv)

[Abigail Merlin]

I was just told that TOS 8.2 (iv) aka sexual ageplay, is nolonger being enforced.

Personaly I don't beliefe it on hearsay but as landlord of an adult sim it would be usefull to know what I can tell my renters what is or is not alowed.

So can anyone confirm if enforcement is indeed dropped because the TOS is not updated in almost 2 years.

[Cerise Sorbet]

I know that within the last month, at least one place catering to that was successfully reported and shut down. LL took back the land and closed the owner account.

[Syo Emerald]

Who said that?

If it doesn't came out of the mouth of a LindenLab employee it is not true. You are on the save side if you stay with what is said in the TOS. And seriously....would you want to rent land out to people who enjoy erotic roleplay with children?

[Perrie Juran]

I hear the occasional undocumented claim that LL didn't enforce it in a situation.

I call flat out bull dinky on that.

[Abigail Merlin]

cerise, that is enough to believe nothing has changed.

as for why I would rent out land to someone who enjoys that, if LL allows it then who am I to judge otherwise, it would be poor business to press my moral values on my renters, especialy in todays market. Imagine going into a RL shop and being refused because you are not christian, you would be sure to tell everyone who wants to listen not to shop there.

offcourse now it is clear that LL does still enforce it morals do not come into play, it's not alowed so I don't have to worry about it.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Abigail Merlin wrote:

I was just told that TOS 8.2 (iv) aka sexual ageplay, is nolonger being enforced.

Personaly I don't beliefe it on hearsay but as landlord of an adult sim it would be usefull to know what I can tell my renters what is or is not alowed.

 

So can anyone confirm if enforcement is indeed dropped because the TOS is not updated in almost 2 years.

---

If you met the person who told you that in RL, they'd be driving a van and asking you to help them find their lost dog.

My main avatar is a teenager (who is 18, of course), but she's had little friends disappear suddenly several times. Sexual ageplay is still the quickest and surest way to lose an account.

[Syo Emerald]

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Abigail Merlin wrote:

cerise, that is enough to believe nothing has changed.

as for why I would rent out land to someone who enjoys that, if LL allows it then who am I to judge otherwise, it would be poor business to press my moral values on my renters, especialy in todays market. Imagine going into a RL shop and being refused because you are not christian, you would be sure to tell everyone who wants to listen not to shop there.

 

offcourse now it is clear that LL does still enforce it morals do not come into play, it's not alowed so I don't have to worry about it.

---

Oh sure....not being christian can be easily compared to people who like having sex with children....

Not to mention that being discriminated because of religion is a violation of human rights (which are approved by most countries). I think I know which side I chose....

[mikka Luik]

Also calling dinky on this (do like that phrase) and as for "who am I to judge otherwise" - well now. Most things I am pretty easy going on - this ain't one and long may it be enforced.

[Perrie Juran]

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Abigail Merlin wrote:

cerise, that is enough to believe nothing has changed.

as for why I would rent out land to someone who enjoys that, if LL allows it then who am I to judge otherwise,

it would be poor business to press my moral values on my renters, especialy in todays market.

Imagine going into a RL shop and being refused because you are not christian, you would be sure to tell everyone who wants to listen not to shop there.

 

offcourse now it is clear that LL does still enforce it morals do not come into play, it's not alowed so I don't have to worry about it.

---

" it would be poor business to press my moral values on my renters, especialy in todays market."

If the only moral value you have is the Almighty Dollar, then I feel really sorry for you.

[iCade]

Just because the TOS hasn't been updated within a certain time frame does not make it less valid.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

always go by what TOS say's and not what someone tells you..

otherwise you end up putting yourself at risk..

if it's still in there..then play it safe..

[Pussycat Catnap]

Basic levels of policing in a society:

 

The Law - this is the lowest common denominator. Meet this bar or the society beats you down - removing your liberty or life. Living at this level is usually immoral. Violators risk having their so-called 'inalienable rights' alienated.

The Rules - follow this conduct or risk sanction by the society. Just following the rules is amoral. Break this and lose your money, your access to things not considered rights, and so on.

Social Norms - basic accepted conduct to avoid being socially scorned.

Ethics - the path of being seen as virtuous, and thereby getting praise. Ethical people become role-models. But ethics is a false morality - based on approval. This is Thrasymachus' justice.

Morality - the path of actually having internalized good conduct for no reward. Moral people are often scorned or 'alienated' of their rights, for reminding society of the flaws in its ethics. This is Socrates' justice.

 

Just because something is 'legal' or 'within the rules' does not mean it should be done - that's bottom feeding.

Catering to 'ageplayers' may be legal in some places in the world (in the US, since its all virtual) - but it violated the rules of society, AND the social norms. I would argue it is an immoral path. We can find plenty of 'ethical heroes' in our culture who have done it...

It is never good to make the argument that you are 'just following the rules' or 'its ok because it doesn't break the rules'.

[Staralien]

I have rental property and though I would not infringe my beliefs or ethics on others, when it comes to stuff like this, it is my land , my rules and I don't care how much they are willing to pay, no amount of money can buy immoral behavior on my land. I don't care if it is legal or illegal...in my opinion, children, either real or virtual have no place in adult sexual play. Period. I have a rental document they get upon renting with rules, info, passcodes, etc; and one of my most important rules is no sexual role play with child avis. I will report, eject, ban in a heartbeat if there is even a hint of that stuff going on. I am really sad for you that money means more to you than morality. There are plenty of decent people in SL to rent to without having to rent to these types of people.

[Abigail Merlin]

one question for those complaining that I do not go above the TOS of SL, do you expect sim owners to police their renters in line with your personal ethics? I don't like bestualety or rape, should I check all my renters to make sure they do not have a scripted sex animal? or likewise if your neighbours are having a RL sexual ageplay party will you complain as wel?

If I happen to see something that is against the TOS I will most likely inform the renter first if they are aware they are breaking the rules and only if they do not adjust so they comply with the rules will I report but I will not activly go looking what they are up to, that would be a serius breach of privatie.

There are to many self apointed moral police officers already. report if you see it but don't go looking for it

[Pussycat Catnap]

Bottom feeders always try to pretend anyone with common decency is an uppity nosey body with unusual morals and that thee is no such thing as a universal set of basic norms, ethics, and morals.

But there are. And if you can't see that, you should consider some serious self-reflection.

Few people are genuinely confused on an issue like this.

 

[Ayesha Lytton]

I'm an adult sim landlord and my sims have rules against promotion of rape or beastiality with RL animals. I DO police it in that I check land titles and descriptions, and stores or homes if I have reason to be suspicious. What people discuss in private IM, however repellent, is their business, but if I see it happening or being advertised on my sim they WILL be evicted. I don't want sick creeps renting from me. It's not difficult to make a good faith effort to keep predators off your land.

[161488303349]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Bottom feeders always try to pretend

...

Few people are genuinely confused on an issue like this.

 

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^^ that ^^ and ^^ that ^^

+

@OP

 

only people who ever tell you that linden are not enforcing this are the ones doing it

stay away from them. dont rent to them. if you do then they will do it. and you will know. and if you then dont do anything about it bc you been listening to them. then linden will unplug your sim(s) and your account as well

 

[solstyse]

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Abigail Merlin wrote:

one question for those complaining that I do not go above the TOS of SL, do you expect sim owners to police their renters in line with your personal ethics? I don't like bestualety or rape, should I check all my renters to make sure they do not have a scripted sex animal? or likewise if your neighbours are having a RL sexual ageplay party will you complain as wel?

If I happen to see something that is against the TOS I will most likely inform the renter first if they are aware they are breaking the rules and only if they do not adjust so they comply with the rules will I report but I will not activly go looking what they are up to, that would be a serius breach of privatie.

 

There are to many self apointed moral police officers already. report if you see it but don't go looking for it

---

Let's be completely honest about this. As the owner of the land, you assume partial responsibility for what goes on there. What if someone is griefing? Maybe they're not violating TOS directly, but does that mean you should alow it? What if they're lagging the sim with excesswive effects and upsetting your other renters. Are they allowed to do that just because TOS doesn't ban particles? Or would you ban them? Someone may covertly engage in activities that you do onot approve of and get away with it. Even something as appalling as ageplay. That is no excuse to approve it though. It's a clear violation of everything. Not just LL's Tos.

A landlord doesn't need to snoop in order to enforce some sort of morals. Ever hear of a land covenant? People do this all the time. Even though a covenant is typically stricter than LL's TOS, breaking the covenant is reason enough to get you ejected. Can you get away with breaking covenant? Sure. Sneaky people find ways to get away with things. It doesn't make it right though. If you ban the ones you catch, then maybe the others will find somewhere else to be perverts. Think about it. If someone's selling drugs out of a rl apartment, the landlord doesn't need to go snooping through their personal posessions to get suspicious. Same thing in sl. Someone getting away with smoking pot on your property because you weren't playing sherlock holmes is a much different scenario than setting up a drug den yourself. The fact that some people might slip through the cracks when they commit crimes is no excuse to welcome crime, and to decide that those who do get caught don't deserve any consequences.

We may all be reading this wrong, but it seems like you're trying to justify setting up a haven for pedophiles basically just because you heard a  rumor that you can. All these negative comments about "moral policing" might carry some weight if you were talking something less commonly despised. Even if LL allowed pedophilia, what kind of renters do you think you would attract by welcoming that to your land? And if it's the money that matters to you, how many decent people do you think would want to be surrounded by that? There is no reason to hang a "pedophiles welcome" sign unless ageplay is something that you want yourself.

And as for your other question, about whether you would call the police if you knew your neighbor was having sex with a minor. Absolutely. There's something seriously wrong with the person who wouldn't.

But the last sentance of your post, "Report it if you see it, but don't go looking for it." is actually the best way to conduct yourself in sl. Look for what you enjoy, do what you enjoy. Live up to your own morals as long as they meet or exceed those set forth in the TOS and your land covenant. But if you happen upon a severe violation, ar the person involved, and if you own the land it's on, ban them.

[Phil Deakins]

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Abigail Merlin wrote:

I was just told that TOS 8.2 (iv) aka sexual ageplay, is nolonger being enforced.

Personaly I don't beliefe it on hearsay but as landlord of an adult sim

it would be usefull to know what I can tell my renters what is or is not alowed.

---

Simply tell them that it's not allowed. Even if it wasn't covered in the ToS you should not allow it. But it is covered in the ToS so you definitely should not allow it.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

 

...Catering to 'ageplayers' may be legal in some places in the world (in the US, since its all virtual) - but it violated the rules of society, AND the social norms....

---

Actually this is wrong.  In my state it is illegal to even depict sexual situations involving minors regardless if all the participants are adult.  The prohibition is for all media, including cartoons, digital images etc.  The law in my state also makes it a criminal offence for everyone involved, the creator, participants and even an internet content provider , in this case LL  for any images they transmit or allow to be transmitted, even the landlord if they knew about it and did not report it.

Not sure what the federal laws are but it is enough that it is a illeal on the state level.  I imagine that most states have similiar laws.

[161488303349]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

 

...Catering to 'ageplayers' may be legal in some places in the world (in the US, since its all virtual) - but it violated the rules of society, AND the social norms....

---

Actually this is wrong.  In my state it is illegal to even depict sexual situations involving minors regardless if all the participants are adult.  The prohibition is for all media, including cartoons, digital images etc.  The law in my state also makes it a criminal offence for everyone involved, the creator, participants and even an internet content provider , in this case LL  for any images they transmit or allow to be transmitted, even the landlord if they knew about it and did not report it.

Not sure what the federal laws are but it is enough that it is a illeal on the state level.  I imagine that most states have similiar laws.

---

them the same laws in my country. anyone who involved in any way and dont do anything to stop/prevent/take steps or report it can be prosecuted as a criminal

they all go to jail when convicted. judges got no mercy here

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Abigail Merlin wrote:

one question for those complaining that I do not go above the TOS of SL, do you expect sim owners to police their renters in line with your personal ethics? I don't like bestualety or rape, should I check all my renters to make sure they do not have a scripted sex animal? or likewise if your neighbours are having a RL sexual ageplay party will you complain as wel?

If I happen to see something that is against the TOS I will most likely inform the renter first if they are aware they are breaking the rules and only if they do not adjust so they comply with the rules will I report but I will not activly go looking what they are up to, that would be a serius breach of privatie.

 

There are to many self apointed moral police officers already. report if you see it but don't go looking for it

---

Yes, if you believe strongly that a particular behavior is wrong it seems to me you would prohibit it on your own sim.  If you are not true to  your own standards, you have none.  Excusing yourself for pure mercenary reasons is not admirable at all.

As a sim owner there is nothing wrong with enforcing whatever standards you care to establish.  I do this.  While I am not a prude and generally consider what two adults do in private their own affair with some exceptions, there are some behaviors I prohibit in the covenant of any sim I own with tenants as well as any rules of conduct for any public place I own. The evidence doesn't have to be beyond doubt.  A sim or land owner can eject and ban anyone for any reason.  Even if the TOS were changed I would still now allow age play on my sim.

I've rarely had any problems from tenants with this, just a few times which I dealt with swiftly and without warning and with no appeal.  I do not go looking or it, but the evidence most times presents itself eventually.

I've never had a tenant leave because someone was evicted for these prohibitions.  I am sure the people that engage in the prohibited behavior may not rent from me when they see the rules, but I don't want them as tenants anyway and there are always others who prefer to live in an environment where these prohibitions exist.

As far as the general question, the written TOS is what you must follow regardless of anything to the contrary you may hear.  LL does update the TOS as needed when there is a change.

 

[161488303349]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Excusing yourself for pure mercenary reasons is not admirable at all.

 

---

a few years ago now there was this little OS-style grid. was quite nicely made. the owners were normal good people generally. i not name it or them bc i dont think is fair. they also learn hard lesson

+

i go on there one time. i was explore the sims by the Welcome Area. they were all G sims. was hardly nobody on bc of my timezone. after about a hour was this boy avatar appear by me

he say: hi and i say: hi i and say is quite nice here. he said: yeah is. i said is not many people on here. he said no one comes where i am. everyone goes on the A sims

i said: everyone like who? he said: everyone like us

i said: i have to go now. bye. and i never go back

+

was only a few weeks later after that grid shut down. was lots of rumors about why. but i know why. was bc of that guy in the boy avatar. he wasnt a grid owner even. he just had lots of money to pay tiers

i know bc when i check a new grid i always check who is the owner of the parcels. his name was on heaps of them

 

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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Abigail Merlin wrote:

cerise, that is enough to believe nothing has changed.

as for why I would rent out land to someone who enjoys that, if LL allows it then who am I to judge otherwise, it would be poor business to press my moral values on my renters, especialy in todays market. Imagine going into a RL shop and being refused because you are not christian, you would be sure to tell everyone who wants to listen not to shop there.

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I am trying to imagine the extent to which it might hurt  your land rental business if someone were going round saying, "You don't want to be renting from Abigail Merlin -- she doesn't allow sexual ageplay."

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

 

...Catering to 'ageplayers' may be legal in some places in the world (in the US, since its all virtual) - but it violated the rules of society, AND the social norms....

---

Actually this is wrong.  In my state it is illegal to even depict sexual situations involving minors regardless if all the participants are adult.  The prohibition is for all media, including cartoons, digital images etc.

---

Actually it is correct, but I suspect you misread me.

"since its all virtual" is the key word. No real minors involved. Just cartoon pixels, fictional characters, etc... This is why for example, Romeo and Juliet is still legal in the US. Its also why a lot of hentai is still legal... and similar things.

- Supreme Court ruled on this, so its legal in your state no matter what state law says. Until you involve a real minor... its just disgusting, not illegal.