What *I* would like to see next for Second Life.

[Curious Hazelnut]

I feel the need to pontificate on the direction that Linden Lab is taking Second Life. Okay, actually on where I want them to take it. As a long time resident I've watched the Lab go through cycles of new features and improving stability many times. I don't see any other way to keep something as grand as Second Life going forward and lasting as long as it has without such cycles. So, here is what I would like to see as the next cycle for second life.

A long time ago, I got the opportunity to play with (what was then) a new 3D display that you wore like a helmet. This 3D vision display had 2 screens, one for each eye, and gave a real 3D emersive feel to the one playing with it. It was really amazing, I moved my head and the view shifted with it. These toys have come a long way and now look more like funny glasses than helmets. Both Vusix and Sony have (or will have) products available.

Imagine if Second Life supported such things? Would you put on a headset and wander around Second Life in first person without the real world background? I sure would. Something like this takes emersion to the next level. This goes even beyond what 3DTV can do since the headset takes the room you are in away.

That's not all I want. Look at how the Nintendo Wii changed interaction with video games? Suddenly your body becomes the controller, swing the wiimote and the avatar's arm move. Then Microsoft took this a step further with the Kinect and your body really is the controller. Play with one if you haven't, the experience really changes things.

Think about it? Combined a fully emmersive 3D headset with a Wiimote and suddenly the real world just fades away. When you the wiimote around, your avatar's hand moves. The buttons and controls on the wiimote become the controls for movement in SL, the trigger for "touch". It's almost perfect and all the hardware exists. All Linden Lab needs to do is build real support into the viewer.

It's pretty clear that Linden Lab is trying to find ways to bring more people into SL. This would almost certainly do it. How many games are there that truly support that level of immersion? The only down side is it means the viewer would need a 3rd mode of operation: basic, advanced, and real 3D.

Where do you hope Linden Lab takes Second Life?

[Charolotte Caxton]

Well, that wouldn't be so great for people that use second life because they have limited mobility in rl. Also, some of the things people do in SL I don't think they want to be doing in rl

 

Also, how cool is it that you can dance like a balerina or fly like a pixie thanks to animations? Rl movements as an option could be cool, as an add on but not the default.

[Curious Hazelnut]

I'm not proposing that any of the current functionality is taken away. And the suggestion of something along the lines of the wiimote really only gives detailed control of one arm (not even a hand). So this would not hinder anyone with limitted mobility or prevent us from flying like a pixie or dancing like a balerina, it would make the illusion of doing so even more real.

In fact, if anything, the addition of a good interface for more advanced controllers would improve controls for those with limitted mobility. People with limitted or no fine motor control can (usually) make big gestures which are detectable by the motion sensors in a wiimote but have problems pushing buttons on a keyboard. This gives them better control (not worse). That assumes, of course, that the interface allows for reassigning the purpose of inputs and adjusting tollerances in detection (which is much more common with advanced input devices).

[JeanneAnne]

---

Curious Hazelnut wrote:

I feel the need to pontificate on the direction that Linden Lab is taking Second Life. Okay, actually on where I want them to take it. As a long time resident I've watched the Lab go through cycles of new features and improving stability many times. I don't see any other way to keep something as grand as Second Life going forward and lasting as long as it has without such cycles. So, here is what I would like to see as the next cycle for second life.

A long time ago, I got the opportunity to play with (what was then) a new 3D display that you wore like a helmet. This 3D vision display had 2 screens, one for each eye, and gave a real 3D emersive feel to the one playing with it. It was really amazing, I moved my head and the view shifted with it. These toys have come a long way and now look more like funny glasses than helmets. Both

Vusix

and

Sony

have (or will have) products available.

Imagine if Second Life supported such things? Would you put on a headset and wander around Second Life in first person without the real world background? I sure would. Something like this takes emersion to the next level. This goes even beyond what 3DTV can do since the headset takes the room you are in away.

That's not all I want. Look at how the Nintendo Wii changed interaction with video games? Suddenly your body becomes the controller, swing the

wiimote

and the avatar's arm move. Then Microsoft took this a step further with the

Kinect

and your body really is the controller. Play with one if you haven't, the experience really changes things.

Think about it? Combined a fully emmersive 3D headset with a Wiimote and suddenly the real world just fades away. When you the wiimote around, your avatar's hand moves. The buttons and controls on the wiimote become the controls for movement in SL, the trigger for "touch". It's almost perfect and all the hardware exists. All Linden Lab needs to do is build real support into the viewer.

It's pretty clear that Linden Lab is trying to find ways to bring more people into SL. This would almost certainly do it. How many games are there that truly support that level of immersion? The only down side is it means the viewer would need a 3rd mode of operation: basic, advanced, and real 3D.

Where do you hope Linden Lab takes Second Life?

---

my understanding is that something like what you describe was Philip Rosedales original intention for SL .. a helmit & gloves & such for the entire virtual reality experience .. but it didnt work out

imagine tho .. going into a sensory isolation chamber where you float in really dense salty water exactly @ the isothermal temp in total darkness in the soundproof chamber .. & you wear glasses w/ miniature screens & earfones & a body suit w/ appliances attached to your genitals for slex .. & theres even perfumes & odors that can be released in there so that when you see flowers or a skunk or something you smell it too .. & if you get shot or stabbed in combat you feel pain where youre wounded .. & theres a fan so that when you fly you feel the wind .. why not? i bet thers tech available like this ..

what i think is that the grid needs to be completely redesigned so that there are no "sims" .. or rather one big sim .. the entire grid is the same big sim .. so that sailboats could go everywhere & not crash @ sim crossings .. & i think the "prim" needs to be eliminated .. its old tech .. i saw a video about how the wave of the future is millions of microscopic prim-like thingies .. & it makes the grafix soooo much better .. i didnt understand exactly how it works but LL could develop something like this .. but i dont think theres goin2 be great improvement until computers & the internet go fotonic rather than electronic .. & until the hardware engineers figure out how to dissipate heat better .. mebbe w/ radiators or something .. or w/ liquid N2 maybe

id also like to see evry1 pay a user fee & then eliminate private property & the L$ .. the toy sl economy is what i like least about the game

Jeanne

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

Cool.

 

[Curious Hazelnut]

Philip might not have been able to do it 10 years ago when the whole Second Life project was a dream, but technology has come a long way since then. The mainstream tech industry is starting to push 3D (it was barely a niche 10 years ago), just about everything has built in motion sensors now. A smartphone has more RAM and a more powerful CPU than the servers that gave us the beta of second life. I think Philip might discover that he could make what he wants now.

I'm with you on the one big sim idea, but that would require a complete re-write of the server side. What I'm talking about is updates (adminittedly significant) to the viewer to include support for modern hardware.

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

my understanding is that something like what you describe was Philip Rosedales original intention for SL .. a helmit & gloves & such for the entire virtual reality experience .. but it didnt work out

[cut part I'm not responding to]

what i think is that the grid needs to be completely redesigned so that there are no "sims" .. or rather one big sim .. the entire grid is the same big sim .. so that sailboats could go everywhere & not crash @ sim crossings .. & i think the "prim" needs to be eliminated .. its old tech .. i saw a video about how the wave of the future is millions of microscopic prim-like thingies .. & it makes the grafix soooo much better .. i didnt understand exactly how it works but LL could develop something like this .. but i dont think theres goin2 be great improvement until computers & the internet go fotonic rather than electronic .. & until the hardware engineers figure out how to dissipate heat better .. mebbe w/ radiators or something .. or w/ liquid N2 maybe

id also like to see evry1 pay a user fee & then eliminate private property & the L$ .. the toy sl economy is what i like least about the game

Jeanne

 

---

[Dilbert Dilweg]

About a year ago  some news was posted about a kinect hack for second life to be used in real time in world

http://slmachinimaarts.ning.com/group/animations/forum/topics/kinect-hack-brings-real-time-animation-to-second-life

Check out the video

AND THE PROJECT HERE Kinect 2 SecondLife Viewer Project

I havent heard too much more about it or how far it has come. but check it out. Seems to be version files available already

 

This will be a bad ass improvement to Animations in sl

This is a Second Life Open Source developers group project

[Deltango Vale]

I would like to see Linden Lab sell Second Life to a well-managed company that understands and appreciates virtual worlds.

[Canoro Philipp]

i would like that they would decide to give the users control of the fingers positions and face expressions, it would bring animations to a whole new level, photography and machinima would improve, we will look more realistic.

something else they can do but dont want, is to open the reflections code that is used in the water to be applied to objects, we could create reflections on shiny objects like mirrors, or furniture that it has a semi-shiny clean look.

and another thing they can do to improve the second life experience but they dont want to, is the ability to have a menu when you left click an object, we still have to rely in pop-up windows that have a maximum of 12 options and you have to keep clicking "next >>", "<< back", to move through the same category of options, is like the pie menu, it doesnt offer the chance to have descriptive names for the options, for example "bluegrass, folk, & country radio station" has to be written "blugrflkcntr" to fit the button size, if we had a menu coming out instead of the pop-up window we could just move the mouse over the menus, get all the options right away visible on the screen, and going back and forth between the different categories would be very easy..

[Dillon Levenque]

 

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

Also, how cool is it that you can dance like a balerina or fly like a pixie thanks to animations?

---

 

Dance like a ballerina? Pfft. I had to complain to the DJ last night because she had us doing some kind of tip-toe thing which looked really dumb since i was wearing hiking boots. But when it comes to full-on rock and roll dancing—I can really shake 'em down.

 

 

ETA: Contour, I apologize for going right off the rails on your thread; I was just amused by a comment.  I was interested in your suggestion, especially after you clarified it more.  It does sound like something that would be well worth trying.

[jwenting]

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

I would like to see Linden Lab sell Second Life to a well-managed company that understands and appreciates virtual worlds.

---

I would like idiotic comments like that to lead to an automatic lifelong ban... It's people like you who cause potential customers to run away and not even try SL. If you're so disgruntled and unhappy with SL, why don't you vote with your feet, cancel your account, and LEAVE? SL would be a better place without you no doubt, and you happier.

Or are you paid to make such comments by a competitor?

 

[Nuhai Ling]

I would love to see Linden Lab get out of Second Life... as in stop being a competitor in the free economic market that used to thrive. Toss out the free Linden homes, freebie gifts, Linden Realms, and so on. Make the grid "adult" again instead of believing sordid content is limited to Zindra. Allow banking and gambling back. Develop an incentive for selling products in-world rather than making it a liability compared to the Marketplace. End "preferred" discounts to land barons so everyone is equal in the land business. Limit the land mass to create value. And the list can go on and on...

Linden Lab should stick with making the world, not making it work. Stabilize the grid and viewers, work out lag issues, hire back a customer service department, take an economics 101 class, etc. then let it revert back to what made it a remarkable experience; "Our World, Our Experience" instead of "Linden's Hypocritical World of Denial."

These are strong words I know but I still have hope... Even God did a reboot of the world so it could happen to Second Life, right?

[Nova Convair]

2 things.

The fascinating thing of building in SL is: you stand in the middle of it! That was a new and a cool feature years ago and stil is. I'd have expected tools to delevop everything inworld - but nothing. Even the Linden viewer is the worst of all viewers when it comes to building skills. Dissapointing - one of SL's strenghts unsupported.

The other thing is the ability to have big sims. 25x25 km would be a nice start. Prim Limit untouched - just more space.

[JeanneAnne]

---

jwenting wrote:

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

I would like to see Linden Lab sell Second Life to a well-managed company that understands and appreciates virtual worlds.

---

I would like idiotic comments like that to lead to an automatic lifelong ban... It's people like you who cause potential customers to run away and not even try SL. If you're so disgruntled and unhappy with SL, why don't you vote with your feet, cancel your account, and LEAVE? SL would be a better place without you no doubt, and you happier.

Or are you paid to make such comments by a competitor?

 

---

i think its rude ppl like you who should be banned or should leave .. if anyone is goin2 .. DV was just expressing an opinion .. if you dont agree with it you can @ least express your disagreement politely

i agree w/ you DV .. SL would be a MUCH better place if not for LL mismanagement!

Jeanne

 

[Knowl Paine]

-Market Place on Video, virtual tours of land, buildings, and products. Stream that data into SL, for broadcasting on SL televisions. Shop at home, in your SL home. lol

 

-The ability to visit other virtual worlds. (with ease)

 

-A dual currency, one that can be exchanged, one that cannot. (I could elaborate)  

 

- Increase the hours in the SL day, use universal time, open some windows to let some light in, and add better clocks; it feels like a casino in here.

 

 

 

[Teagan Tobias]

id also like to see evry1 pay a user fee & then eliminate private property & the L$ .. the toy sl economy is what i like least about the game

----------------------------------------

iBold

I'm not sure what your mean by “the toy sl economy”. If the economy is a toy then I should be able to buy Lindens with Monopoly money or those chocolate coins. But I am spending real money to get my Linden dollars, and a lot of people pull a lot of real money out of SL. My big problem is that you get nothing but “rental of goods you supposedly buy”, you don't own anything, if LL closes there doors today, unless you have built it and have it on you PC, you have nothing to show for your years in Second Life, and I am not a creator so my thousands of dollars spent are just gone. When the asset server shuts down, its all gone. So what part of that is a toy? Or at least, I look at it differently because I spend real money.

[Deltango Vale]

---

jwenting wrote:

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

I would like to see Linden Lab sell Second Life to a well-managed company that understands and appreciates virtual worlds.

---

I would like idiotic comments like that to lead to an automatic lifelong ban... It's people like you who cause potential customers to run away and not even try SL. If you're so disgruntled and unhappy with SL, why don't you vote with your feet, cancel your account, and LEAVE? SL would be a better place without you no doubt, and you happier.

Or are you paid to make such comments by a competitor?

 

---

Well, let's see now. I have been online daily (sometimes 10 hours a day) for the past six years (annual Premium membership). I have paid Linden Lab about US$20,000 in hard cash. I have worked like a dog to build a business that improves the quality of the SL experience. I have written extensively about Second Life in this forum and my own blog. What have you done for Second Life lately?

[JeanneAnne]

---

Teagan Tobias wrote:

id also like to see evry1 pay a user fee & then eliminate private property & the L$ ..

the toy sl economy

is what i like least about the game

----------------------------------------

iBold

I'm not sure what your mean by “

the toy sl economy

”. If the economy is a toy then I should be able to buy Lindens with Monopoly money or those chocolate coins. But I am spending real money to get my Linden dollars, and a lot of people pull a lot of real money out of SL. My big problem is that you get nothing but “rental of goods you supposedly buy”, you don't own anything, if LL closes there doors today, unless you have built it and have it on you PC, you have nothing to show for your years in Second Life, and I am not a creator so my

thousands

of dollars spent are just gone. When the asset server shuts down, its

all

gone. So what part of that is a toy? Or at least, I look at it differently because I spend real money.

---

& when you die its all gone .. no1 ever really owns anything .. in RL as much as in SL

its your choice to spend real money on a toy .. you dont hav2 .. you can enjoy sl w/out spending 1 cent of real money 

only a very small percentage of players pull real money out of SL .. not "a lot of people" as you say .. for the vast majority the time they spend building or scripting or whatever they do in sl to make real money could be much more lucratively spent doing something in RL .. most ppl dont even come close to making minimum wage w/ their SL activities .. so if they enjoy playing monopoly or the SL economy or any other toy game more power to em .. but for all but the handful of Anshe Chungs its never goin2 to pay off in any kinduv material terms

because youve spent all those thousands of real $s you have this investment in SL's continued existence .. so in a sense LL owns you .. owns your allegiance .. i havent spent a single cent in SL so if it disappears today i may be sad but i'll just shrug my shoulders & move on to something else while you lament all the $$$ thats gone down the drain

Jeanne

 

[JeanneAnne]

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

---

jwenting wrote:

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

I would like to see Linden Lab sell Second Life to a well-managed company that understands and appreciates virtual worlds.

---

I would like idiotic comments like that to lead to an automatic lifelong ban... It's people like you who cause potential customers to run away and not even try SL. If you're so disgruntled and unhappy with SL, why don't you vote with your feet, cancel your account, and LEAVE? SL would be a better place without you no doubt, and you happier.

Or are you paid to make such comments by a competitor?

 

---

Well, let's see now. I have been online daily (sometimes 10 hours a day) for the past

six years

(annual Premium membership). I have paid Linden Lab about US$20,000 in hard cash. I have worked like a dog to build a business that improves the quality of the SL experience. I have written extensively about Second Life in this forum and

my own blog

. What have you done for Second Life lately?

---

so since youve given LL about US$20,000 in hard cash worked like a dog & written about SL you think that makes you somehow more important than those of us who havent spent a cent on the game havent built anything & dont have a blog about SL ?? maybe if LL agreed w/ you theyd grant you some sortuv special status over the restuv us .. maybe theyd make you king over a region or something :cattongue:

Jeanne

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

---

jwenting wrote:

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

I would like to see Linden Lab sell Second Life to a well-managed company that understands and appreciates virtual worlds.

---

I would like idiotic comments like that to lead to an automatic lifelong ban... It's people like you who cause potential customers to run away and not even try SL. If you're so disgruntled and unhappy with SL, why don't you vote with your feet, cancel your account, and LEAVE? SL would be a better place without you no doubt, and you happier.

Or are you paid to make such comments by a competitor?

 

---

Well, let's see now. I have been online daily (sometimes 10 hours a day) for the past

six years

(annual Premium membership). I have paid Linden Lab about US$20,000 in hard cash. I have worked like a dog to build a business that improves the quality of the SL experience. I have written extensively about Second Life in this forum and

my own blog

. What have you done for Second Life lately?

---

Selling LL would require a buyer, Del. I don't think LL would survive the due diligence.

[Curious Hazelnut]

That is not what I was thinking, that is even better. Awesome that someone figured that out. This goes on my "I want" list as long as I can still play regular animations.

---

Dilbert Dilweg wrote:

About a year ago  some news was posted about a kinect hack for second life to be used in real time in world

http://slmachinimaarts.ning.com/group/animations/forum/topics/kinect-hack-brings-real-time-animation-to-second-life

Check out the video

AND THE PROJECT HERE

Kinect 2 SecondLife Viewer Project

I havent heard too much more about it or how far it has come. but check it out. Seems to be version files available already

 

This will be a bad ass improvement to Animations in sl

This is a Second Life

Open Source developers group project

---

[Tex Monday]

id also like to see evry1 pay a user fee & then eliminate private property & the L$ ..

 

I completely disagree with that statement. I am one of the many people that do not have a premium membership and I think that LL would lose a ton of people if we had to pay to play the game. I know I'd leave...

[Teagan Tobias]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Teagan Tobias wrote:

id also like to see evry1 pay a user fee & then eliminate private property & the L$ ..

the toy sl economy

is what i like least about the game

----------------------------------------

iBold

I'm not sure what your mean by “

the toy sl economy

”. If the economy is a toy then I should be able to buy Lindens with Monopoly money or those chocolate coins. But I am spending real money to get my Linden dollars, and a lot of people pull a lot of real money out of SL. My big problem is that you get nothing but “rental of goods you supposedly buy”, you don't own anything, if LL closes there doors today, unless you have built it and have it on you PC, you have nothing to show for your years in Second Life, and I am not a creator so my

thousands

of dollars spent are just gone. When the asset server shuts down, its

all

gone. So what part of that is a toy? Or at least, I look at it differently because I spend real money.

---

& when you die its

all

gone .. no1 ever

really

owns anything .. in RL as much as in SL

its your choice to spend real money on a toy .. you dont hav2 .. you can enjoy sl w/out spending 1 cent of real money 

only a very small percentage of players pull real money out of SL .. not "a lot of people" as you say .. for the vast majority the time they spend building or scripting or whatever they do in sl to make real money could be much more lucratively spent doing something in RL .. most ppl dont even come close to making minimum wage w/ their SL activities .. so if they enjoy playing monopoly or the SL economy or any other toy game more power to em .. but for all but the handful of Anshe Chungs its never goin2 to pay off in any kinduv material terms

because youve spent all those thousands of real $s you have this investment in SL's continued existence .. so in a sense LL owns you .. owns your allegiance .. i havent spent a single cent in SL so if it disappears today i may be sad but i'll just shrug my shoulders & move on to something else while you lament all the $$$ thats gone down the drain

Jeanne

 

---

Comparing death in SL to death in real life is a bit morbid (IMO) and I for one would never make that connection. And I do not disagree that SL is a toy, what I am saying is that its economy is real money in, and real money out, no matter how many take money out, some unknown number do, it is a currency. And because of that I still do not understand “the toy SL economy”. Unless you are trying to say, and I just do not understand the way you said it, “The toy, SL, has an economy” and you don't like it. (???)

And what you said:

i havent spent a single cent in SL so if it disappears today i may be sad but i'll just shrug my shoulders & move on to something else while you lament all the $$$ thats gone down the drain

I don't think I will “lament” the money spent, no one is forcing me to spend it, and I for one think it is money well spent, I am enjoying my toy. And I too will move on to something else if SL goes belly up, like one of the other five grids I have avatars on.

And back to the title of the thread, “What *I* would like to see next for Second Life.” is the words buy and rent used correctly.

 

[JeanneAnne]

---

Tex Monday wrote:

id also like to see evry1 pay a user fee & then eliminate private property & the L$ ..

 

I completely disagree with that statement. I am one of the many people that do not have a premium membership and I think that LL would lose a ton of people if we had to pay to play the game. I know I'd leave...

---

i dont have a premium membership either Tex .. id prolly leave too if LL imposed a user fee while keeping their current business model in place .. what i want to see is for everyone to pay a user fee in exchange for the abandonment of tier, rent & the L$ .. everyone pays the same & everyone has equal access to anyplace they want to go .. no more pretending to "own land" in exchange for money .. i dont know if you pay tier or rent or not but if you do youre subsidizing all of us who play for free .. so when i call for everyone paying a user fee it is to the advantage of those who do pay tier or rent & to the disadvantage of ppl like me .. & perhaps like you if you play entirely for free .. but i think it would be well worth the modest fee (~$15 - $20 per month) to end class distinctions & limitations on mobility w/in SL .. i recognize that it would mean that some ppl left the game but those ppl dont pay anything anyway & i think that other ppl would be attracted by a more egalitarian inworld society

Jeanne

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

How would that work if I wanted to build a house? Could I build one as large as I wished anywhere I wanted? What if others wanted to do the same?