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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Yeah Amethyst has that gift of tact that I sometimes wish I had (even just a little
:)
).  constructively critique.

You and me both, Peggy. ;)  I do try to keep things positive but, being a redhead, that "fiery spark" jumps out every so often. :matte-motes-bashful: 

Out of curiosity, I wish I knew where the build was to which the OP refers.  Would be interested to see how it looks on my PC.

 

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Yes they do, but I ask it only when I'm taking photos for them:) And there are some people that have eyes with built in facelights! Its funny when I ask them to take off facelight and the person says noo I don't wear that. 

Yes I know that I can turn it off, but what we also use is.. huh atm I can't remember how to say it in english lol, lights that are like facelights, and you rezz them around avatar to light up some parts and have specific shadows or even colors in the scene. 

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Tamara Artis wrote:

 

Yes I know that I can turn it off, but what we also use is.. huh atm I can't remember how to say it in english lol, lights that are like facelights, and you rezz them around avatar to light up some parts and have specific shadows or even colors in the scene. 

Oh no, Tamara...I wasn't suggesting you turn the light feature off.  I'm sorry...I didn't phrase that well.  I meant that, in my case with my current old PC, I often turn off "nearby local lights" if I'm lagging a lot.  I actually like having that feature on because there are some items that don't look right without it, such as the light domes in my ceiling fans.  It's just something I need to do until I get a new PC....which should be...soon!!!

 

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Irreguardless of how Gadget presented or handled the situation, it does make sense to check other settings, besides the lowest. It would be extremely bad advice to only view your product with low graphic settings. A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Irreguardless of how Gadget presented or handled the situation, it does make sense to check other settings, besides the lowest. It would be extremely bad advice to only view your product with low graphic settings. A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true.

First, it wasn't the issue of the graphic settings most of the responding posters objected to; it was Gadget's arrogant and rude comments.

Second, your contention that those with low end PCs will spend less in SL is absurd and totally unfounded; in fact, they may spend MORE.   People in RL make choices about where they choose to spend their money.  Choosing to spend RL money on something besides a "high end" PC does not necessarily have any bearing on how much they will spend in SL. Some of us prefer not to be in debt up to our eyeballs.  In my case, I have spent quite a bit of money in SL over the past 5+ years.  Now most of it comes from what I earn in SL, but for the first few years it was RL money I put into SL.  On the flip side, I have a friend who just built a new PC for himself that is ultra-high end, he has a great job, BUT he refuses to spend money in SL because he considers it relaxation, like turning on the TV, and the only thing he does in SL is go dancing.  He has been in SL since 2009 and, to my knowledge, has not put a cent into SL. He does not rent or own land (I currently rent land and have owned quite a bit of land over the years), does not own a home, obviously (I collect houses and have a small fortune invested in them), has about 3 outfits total (let's not even get into my wardrobe...lol), well...you get the idea. This friend recently took me for a ride, in a freebie vehicle.  I own a gazillion types of vehicles - flying, driving, boating, horses, etc. Even the gifts this guy has given me are freebies!!

I daresay these two examples represent many other people on both sides of the coin.  Why don't you dredge up the old "If you don't have a Premium account you're freeloading" argument?  It makes about as much sense.

 

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Yes I agree, it sure would be nice if LL would get rid of most of their superfluous (and damaging) propaganda, public relations, and marketing people and instead invest in more servers so that we all might be able to enjoyably use the ultra graphics setting at times and be on the same page when it comes to the visual experience in SL which is so important to many of us. ;-)

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Spica Inventor wrote:

Yes I agree, it sure would be nice if LL would get rid of most of their superfluous (and damaging) propaganda, public relations, and marketing people and instead invest in more servers so that we all might be able to enjoyably use the ultra graphics setting at times and be on the same page when it comes to the visual experience in SL which is so important to many of us. ;-)

Graphics is almost entirely a viewer-side thing with the way SL is set up. You just basically said, "My supermarket should get bigger shopping carts so everyone's food would cook faster."

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Graphics is almost entirely a viewer-side thing with the way SL is set up. You just basically said, "My supermarket should get bigger shopping carts so everyone's food would cook faster."

 

That's what they want you to believe for PR and propaganda reasons, but it would be fallacious to believe that most problems with lag outside of relative differences between computer types and hookups is at the user end. There could be essentially no lag to very little lag in SL if LL was willing to invest the money required in servers. ;-)

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

Irreguardless of how Gadget presented or handled the situation, it does make sense to check other settings, besides the lowest. It would be extremely bad advice to only view your product with low graphic settings. A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true.

First, it wasn't the issue of the graphic settings most of the responding posters objected to; it was Gadget's arrogant and rude comments.

Second, your contentin that those with low end PCs will spend less in SL is absurd and totally unfounded; in fact, they may spend MORE.   People in RL make choices about where they choose to spend their money.  Choosing to spend RL money on something besides a "high end" PC does not necessarily have any bearing on how much they will spend in SL. Some of us prefer not to be in debt up to our eyeballs.  In my case, I have spent quite a bit of money in SL over the past 5+ years.  Now most of it comes from what I earn in SL, but for the first few years it was RL money I put into SL.  On the flip side, I have a friend who just built a new PC for himself that is ultra-high end, he has a great job, BUT he refuses to spend money in SL because he considers it relaxation, like turning on the TV, and the only thing he does in SL is go dancing.  He has been in SL since 2009 and, to my knowledge, has not put a cent into SL. He does not rent or own land (I currently rent land and have owned quite a bit of land over the years), does not own a home, obviously (I collect houses and have a small fortune invested in them), has about 3 outfits total (let's not even get into my wardrobe...lol), well...you get the idea. This friend recently took me for a ride, in a freebie vehicle.  I own a gazillion types of vehicles - flying, driving, boating, horses, etc. Even the gifts this guy has given me are freebies!!

I daresay these two examples represent many other people on both sides of the coin.  Why don't you dredge up the old "If you don't have a Premium account you're freeloading" argument?  It makes about as much sense.

 

As I said, there are always exceptions. I have also never argued that if you don't have a Premium account, then you are freeloading. I'm simply stating the facts, as I see them, and giving sound theoretical advice. It doesn't make any sense at all to ignore people that have higher end pcs. Plus, it also comes down to the knowledge of the user. A high end desktop is extremely cheap at this time. You can spend $400 on an off the shelf pc, and then drop a $150 graphics card in. That's $550 for a pc that can run SL on High, or even Ultra. Of course, I understand that not every1 can even afford $550 for a pc, but the cost difference between a high end and low end is practically nothing, compared to 10 years ago.

What I see going on in this thread is quite typical of many threads. Very few people concentrate on the actual topic, and instead want to respond emotionally. Although I would agree that the OP was not very sensitive or graceful about the topic, but this does not errase the point Gadget is making, which is very valid.

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Spica Inventor wrote:

Graphics is almost entirely a viewer-side thing with the way SL is set up. You just basically said, "My supermarket should get bigger shopping carts so everyone's food would cook faster."

 

That's what they want you to believe for PR and propaganda reasons, but it would be fallacious to believe that most problems with lag outside of relative differences between computer types and hookups is at the user end. There could be essentially no lag to very little lag in SL if LL was willing to invest the money required in servers. ;-)

I will have to disagree here. The VAST majority of things that cause lag in SL have to do with the content, and the creators that make them. If every1 could actually see the total cost of downloading and viewing an item, they would see right away how the average SL creation costs way more to render than any comparable item in any other game. This is a fact, not an opinion. Now, when you put multiple or dozens of those costly creations all around you, or even wear them, your pc will struggle to download them, and keep them cached. When every item that your pc views is over 5mb, it will not be long before your cache is packed and has to drop the item from your cache. Then, when you turn and view that same item, your pc must redownload the item. This is what causes the majority of lag.

Now, I've been saying this for years now. It is not an attack on other people's creations. This is about understanding the cost of the items that people create. LL can do some things, server side, to help with this problem, as they have pointed out here. That said, when items in SL cost your pc 10 times more to render than any game on the market, there is just no way around the lag, other than telling people to make their items more efficiently.

I should also point out that I never see much, if any, lag on my own sim, as most items there are created by me.

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Spoken like a 5 year old in a conversion about economics at the family dinner table.  Most can forgive a 5 year old due to the 5 yr old's ignorance........in fact, most would be a little impressed at the 5 yr old's interest in such deep and complicated issues of the world.  However, you are not a 5 yr old.........you are at least 16 years old (unless you are underaged to have an account in SL.........which is a requirement for you to post anything in the forums).  16 years old is old enough to have learned that some subjects are beyond their ability to participate in complicated conversation.......and those 16 yr old's are a little harder to forgive.  Most people will get a little irritated at that person when they continue injecting their bits of "knowledge" into the conversation......and when that happens most will say to themselves this child is an idiot.  Some will say it outloud.....I'm one of those "out loud" people.

You don't know what you are talking about.  By continuing talking about something you don't know anything about you are demonstrating exactly what most people are saying to themselves.  My suggestion is to quit while your head is still above ground level of that hole you are digging for yourself.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

Irreguardless of how Gadget presented or handled the situation, it does make sense to check other settings, besides the lowest. It would be extremely bad advice to only view your product with low graphic settings. A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true.

First, it wasn't the issue of the graphic settings most of the responding posters objected to; it was Gadget's arrogant and rude comments.

Second, your contentin that those with low end PCs will spend less in SL is absurd and totally unfounded; in fact, they may spend MORE.   People in RL make choices about where they choose to spend their money.  Choosing to spend RL money on something besides a "high end" PC does not necessarily have any bearing on how much they will spend in SL. Some of us prefer not to be in debt up to our eyeballs.  In my case, I have spent quite a bit of money in SL over the past 5+ years.  Now most of it comes from what I earn in SL, but for the first few years it was RL money I put into SL.  On the flip side, I have a friend who just built a new PC for himself that is ultra-high end, he has a great job, BUT he refuses to spend money in SL because he considers it relaxation, like turning on the TV, and the only thing he does in SL is go dancing.  He has been in SL since 2009 and, to my knowledge, has not put a cent into SL. He does not rent or own land (I currently rent land and have owned quite a bit of land over the years), does not own a home, obviously (I collect houses and have a small fortune invested in them), has about 3 outfits total (let's not even get into my wardrobe...lol), well...you get the idea. This friend recently took me for a ride, in a freebie vehicle.  I own a gazillion types of vehicles - flying, driving, boating, horses, etc. Even the gifts this guy has given me are freebies!!

I daresay these two examples represent many other people on both sides of the coin.  Why don't you dredge up the old "If you don't have a Premium account you're freeloading" argument?  It makes about as much sense.

 

As I said, there are always exceptions. I have also never argued that if you don't have a Premium account, then you are freeloading. I'm simply stating the facts, as I see them, and giving sound theoretical advice. It doesn't make any sense at all to ignore people that have higher end pcs. Plus, it also comes down to the knowledge of the user. A high end desktop is extremely cheap at this time. You can spend $400 on an off the shelf pc, and then drop a $150 graphics card in. That's $550 for a pc that can run SL on High, or even Ultra. Of course, I understand that not every1 can even afford $550 for a pc, but the cost difference between a high end and low end is practically nothing, compared to 10 years ago.

What I see going on in this thread is quite typical of many threads. Very few people concentrate on the actual topic, and instead want to respond emotionally. Although I would agree that the OP was not very sensitive or graceful about the topic, but this does not errase the point Gadget is making, which is very valid.

Where did I say it makes sense to ignore people with high end PCs?  That is not my premise at all.  I was responding to your *opinion* that people with higher end PCs will spend more money in SL than people with lower end PCs.  I have experiences to the contrary.  They may or may not be exceptions, but until a poll is taken of the entire SL user base, the issue remains opinion, based on our best knowledge and experience on both sides.

"What I see going on in this thread is quite typical of many threads. Very few people concentrate on the actual topic, and instead want to respond emotionally."

Nice try.  The "emotion" tactic to discredit dissenting opinions is a very common one.  As for concentrating on the actual topic, I don't see that much of the content of your posts addressed the essence of the OP, which, in my opinion, was "emotional."  OP was asked to see a build.  Due to his "ultra-high graphics settings" (which OP states are the "decent" settings to have) he makes a rude comment in general chat to his friend, gets banned by the creator of the build, and comes to the forums to whine about this, ending with the statement that "It almost makes me wish SL disabled building unless you have your graphics settings at least set to high" which was an arrogrant and inflammatory statement - in my opinion.

Did I miss something?  Was there a question or positive contribution in the post that would be helpful to the merchant community, or was this another case of "My toy is better than your toy, and if you don't have a toy like mine, you shouldn't be allowed play on my playground."  *Rolls eyes*  Call the Waaaaambulance.

 

 

 

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"...

Did I miss something?  Was there a question or positive contribution in the post that would be helpful to the merchant community, or was this another case of "My toy is better than your toy, and if you don't have a toy like mine, you shouldn't be allowed play on my playground."  *Rolls eyes*  Call the Waaaaambulance."

-------------------------------------------------

Where's the Kudo button?

:smileylol:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

Irreguardless of how Gadget presented or handled the situation, it does make sense to check other settings, besides the lowest. It would be extremely bad advice to only view your product with low graphic settings. A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true.

First, it wasn't the issue of the graphic settings most of the responding posters objected to; it was Gadget's arrogant and rude comments.

Second, your contentin that those with low end PCs will spend less in SL is absurd and totally unfounded; in fact, they may spend MORE.   People in RL make choices about where they choose to spend their money.  Choosing to spend RL money on something besides a "high end" PC does not necessarily have any bearing on how much they will spend in SL. Some of us prefer not to be in debt up to our eyeballs.  In my case, I have spent quite a bit of money in SL over the past 5+ years.  Now most of it comes from what I earn in SL, but for the first few years it was RL money I put into SL.  On the flip side, I have a friend who just built a new PC for himself that is ultra-high end, he has a great job, BUT he refuses to spend money in SL because he considers it relaxation, like turning on the TV, and the only thing he does in SL is go dancing.  He has been in SL since 2009 and, to my knowledge, has not put a cent into SL. He does not rent or own land (I currently rent land and have owned quite a bit of land over the years), does not own a home, obviously (I collect houses and have a small fortune invested in them), has about 3 outfits total (let's not even get into my wardrobe...lol), well...you get the idea. This friend recently took me for a ride, in a freebie vehicle.  I own a gazillion types of vehicles - flying, driving, boating, horses, etc. Even the gifts this guy has given me are freebies!!

I daresay these two examples represent many other people on both sides of the coin.  Why don't you dredge up the old "If you don't have a Premium account you're freeloading" argument?  It makes about as much sense.

 

As I said, there are always exceptions. I have also never argued that if you don't have a Premium account, then you are freeloading. I'm simply stating the facts, as I see them, and giving sound theoretical advice. It doesn't make any sense at all to ignore people that have higher end pcs. Plus, it also comes down to the knowledge of the user. A high end desktop is extremely cheap at this time. You can spend $400 on an off the shelf pc, and then drop a $150 graphics card in. That's $550 for a pc that can run SL on High, or even Ultra. Of course, I understand that not every1 can even afford $550 for a pc, but the cost difference between a high end and low end is practically nothing, compared to 10 years ago.

What I see going on in this thread is quite typical of many threads. Very few people concentrate on the actual topic, and instead want to respond emotionally. Although I would agree that the OP was not very sensitive or graceful about the topic, but this does not errase the point Gadget is making, which is very valid.

Where did I say it makes sense to ignore people with high end PCs?  That is not my premise at all.  I was responding to your *opinion* that people with higher end PCs will spend more money in SL than people with lower end PCs.  I have experiences to the contrary.  They may or may not be exceptions, but until a poll is taken of the entire SL user base, the issue remains opinion, based on our best knowledge and experience on both sides.

"What I see going on in this thread is quite typical of many threads. Very few people concentrate on the actual topic, and instead want to respond emotionally."

Nice try.  The "emotion" tactic to discredit dissenting opinions is a very common one.  As for concentrating on the actual topic, I don't see that much of the content of your posts addressed the essence of the OP, which, in my opinion, was "emotional."  OP was asked to see a build.  Due to his "ultra-high graphics settings" (which OP states are the "decent" settings to have) he makes a rude comment in general chat to his friend, gets banned by the creator of the build, and comes to the forums to whine about this, ending with the statement that "It almost makes me wish SL disabled building unless you have your graphics settings at least set to high" which was an arrogrant and inflammatory statement - in my opinion.

Did I miss something?  Was there a question or positive contribution in the post that would be helpful to the merchant community, or was this another case of "My toy is better than your toy, and if you don't have a toy like mine, you shouldn't be allowed play on my playground."  *Rolls eyes*  Call the Waaaaambulance.

 

 

 

Usually, when people post a thread, there is a reason. You and others assume that Gadget created the thread to bash some newbie creator, or some version of this. I don't have that assumption. The actual point, IMHO, has to do with creators understanding that things can look different on other settings. I may not agree with opinions made beyond that point, but I don't see anything wrong with informing creators of the issue.

Emotions do not discount anything. What it does is show motivation. This is a good thing, that people are motivated. The problem comes about when the emotional motivation leads to assumptions that the OP did not assert.

As for my assertion that users with higher end computers will tend to spend more, all you have to do is look at Iphone apps vs Android apps. Developers understand that they are more able to charge for the app if it's an Iphone app. The reason is that people who buy the Iphone are more likely to pay for apps. The Iphone costs more than an Android. I think there are more factors, like the Iphone buyers being more susceptible to marketing, as well as others.

There is also the purely logical thoughtout process of why some1 loves a graphically intense world, but is unwilling to invest in the hardware to see it at it's highest setting. We all make some kind of cost benefit analysis. Obviously, the user with a low end machine doesn't see the value in having a higher end machine. People will always argue poverty first, but most of us are going to be in poverty. The difference is just that some of us still spend what little money we do have on a good machine. I'll buy a decent machine before I will buy a new pair of real shoes. If some1 does not see the value in having a higher end machine, it is also likely they will not value the virtual world as much as some1 with a higher end machine. Yeah, I am generalizing, but when it comes to running a business and selling products at a high enough level to live on, this is how you have to look at everything. It's all a cost benefit analysis

 

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The majority of that post made little appreciable sense to the central issue and none at all to the OPs post, which you stated others did not do (stay on topic).  So instead of debating iPods vs. Android phones and SL business models, I'm going to address the second sentence of your post.

"You and others assume that Gadget created the thread to bash some newbie creator, or some version of this."

You're stating something as fact when that is not the case. I personally did not state nor "assume" that "Gadget created the thread to bash some newbie creator..." My first response on this thread was my assertion that Gadget apparently has some issue with people who own low-end computers.  This post, in my opinion, was another example.  I did not read any other responses that indicated the purpose of the thread was to bash a newbie creator.

After re-reading (again) the OP, the only sentence I can find that supports your assertion that "The actual point, IMHO, has to do with creators understanding that things can look different on other settings,"  is near the bottom of the post:

"So why do people build on lowest possible settings, then refuse to see what their terribad builds actually look like on decent settings (in my case, Ultra+)?"

Everything prior to that described a particular situation and after that sentence ended with, IN MY OPINION, a rather arrogant statement.  The OP also assumes the role of a mind-reader by asking why people build on the lowest possible settings.  "People" is rather broad and since the OP has no possible way to confirm that assertion, let's narrow it to the build with which he took issue.  Did the OP ask the creator what settings he built on?  Did the creator offer this information?  The information that we are provided in the OP indicates that the OP, upon seeing a particular build, asked in general chat if this was a freebie/s which was overheard by the creator.  Creator said OP must have something wrong with his PC.  OP took an inworld photo to show the creator at which point OP was ejected from creator's store.  If I was going to read into this, I would say there was likely another exchange of conversation between the creator looking at the picture and ejecting the OP.  It could have been during that exchange the OP was informed the creator used "the lowest possible setting" but from what is presented none of us can know that.  IF that  transpired, then the OP can state with certainty a grand total of one person builds using the "lowest possible settings."  Including "people" (which by definition is more than one person) is a sweeping generalization.

As to what  you consider the point of the OP, comprised of one sentence, that has been addressed by several posters.

With that said, I am going to bow out of this thread.  Neither of us are going to change the other's mind.  I don't agree with your point of view within this discussion, Medhue, but I have agreed with other posts you've written elsewhere on the forums.  I think that makes us human, eh. ;) 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Spica Inventor wrote:

Graphics is almost entirely a viewer-side thing with the way SL is set up. You just basically said, "My supermarket should get bigger shopping carts so everyone's food would cook faster."

 

That's what they want you to believe for PR and propaganda reasons, but it would be fallacious to believe that most problems with lag outside of relative differences between computer types and hookups is at the user end. There could be essentially no lag to very little lag in SL if LL was willing to invest the money required in servers. ;-)

I will have to disagree here. The VAST majority of things that cause lag in SL have to do with the content, and the creators that make them. If every1 could actually see the total cost of downloading and viewing an item, they would see right away how the average SL creation costs way more to render than any comparable item in any other game. This is a fact, not an opinion. Now, when you put multiple or dozens of those costly creations all around you, or even wear them, your pc will struggle to download them, and keep them cached. When every item that your pc views is over 5mb, it will not be long before your cache is packed and has to drop the item from your cache. Then, when you turn and view that same item, your pc must redownload the item. This is what causes the majority of lag.

Now, I've been saying this for years now. It is not an attack on other people's creations. This is about understanding the cost of the items that people create. LL can do some things, server side, to help with this problem, as they have pointed out
That said, when items in SL cost your pc 10 times more to render than any game on the market, there is just no way around the lag, other than telling people to make their items more efficiently.

I should also point out that I never see much, if any, lag on my own sim, as most items there are created by me.

I agree 100% with you on this Medhue! It's very easy to see that it's not all on SL by simply visiting other sims on your computer. I experience the exact same thing, because I do my best to optimize scripts and textures, I don't experience lag on my own sim ever. There are a few other sims I go to as well that I experience no lag whatsoever on. But then...there are some that kill my machine. I'm running a pretty high preformance machine so I shouldn't be lagging at all but due to people not optimizing their builds it makes it darn near impossible not to have major lag in some places. And like you said, it's not a knock on anyone's creators from the artistic standpoint, if you want to call it that, it's more about the lack of knowledge of how to optimize very the fastest loading.

 

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This is the funniest post I have read in a long time!


Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Spoken like a 5 year old in a conversion about economics at the family dinner table.  Most can forgive a 5 year old due to the 5 yr old's ignorance........in fact, most would be a little impressed at the 5 yr old's interest in such deep and complicated issues of the world.  However, you are not a 5 yr old.........you are at least 16 years old (unless you are underaged to have an account in SL.........which is a requirement for you to post anything in the forums).  16 years old is old enough to have learned that some subjects are beyond their ability to participate in complicated conversation.......and those 16 yr old's are a little harder to forgive.  Most people will get a little irritated at that person when they continue injecting their bits of "knowledge" into the conversation......and when that happens most will say to themselves this child is an idiot.  Some will say it outloud.....I'm one of those "out loud" people.

You don't know what you are talking about.  By continuing talking about something you don't know anything about you are demonstrating exactly what most people are saying to themselves.  My suggestion is to quit while your head is still above ground level of that hole you are digging for yourself.

 

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"A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true."

 

Not sure where to start on that.  :) 

you might pick up a copy of an older book "The Millionaire Mind"  and review on how people with money spend cash.

when I arrived here, everyone I met was on a laptop.  I generally made friends with business people because I was selling luxury homes.  200 bucks to 400 bucks.  (that was 2007)

They were on laptops because they were busy people and mobile all day and into the night and while traveling.

I'm sure some were on laptops that you would call "low-end"...because they were "playing."

They've all moved on, and doubt that they could function at all now, mobile.  SL has become very difficult for a laptop user.  Shame, that.  Large population.  and large population that you sort of insulted.  :)

where did you pull those stats from? 

 

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Irreguardless of how Gadget presented or handled the situation, it does make sense to check other settings, besides the lowest. It would be extremely bad advice to only view your product with low graphic settings. A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true.

 

Can't argue with the first sentence at all, I posted earlier in this thread that it is a good thing to do. It would be just as foolish for a builder to cater only to low end graphics users as to only built for high end.

However I'll give you a huge argument on your second assertion because it is not obvious or even logical.  Where did you get your facts?  Please give us a source for this conclusion based on actual figures and not just you own opinion.  The reason I am asking is that it goes counter to everything in RL. Walmart is one of the biggest and most successful stores in the world and they cater to lower income people. 

 


Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

As I said, there are always exceptions. I have also never argued that if you don't have a Premium account, then you are freeloading. I'm simply stating the facts, as I see them, and giving sound theoretical advice. It doesn't make any sense at all to ignore people that have higher end pcs. Plus, it also comes down to the knowledge of the user. A high end desktop is extremely cheap at this time. You can spend $400 on an off the shelf pc, and then drop a $150 graphics card in. That's $550 for a pc that can run SL on High, or even Ultra. Of course, I understand that not every1 can even afford $550 for a pc, but the cost difference between a high end and low end is practically nothing, compared to 10 years ago.

What I see going on in this thread is quite typical of many threads. Very few people concentrate on the actual topic, and instead want to respond emotionally. Although I would agree that the OP was not very sensitive or graceful about the topic, but this does not errase the point Gadget is making, which is very valid.

Again, it would be foolish for a builder to ignore high end graphics users and I don't see anyone on this thread saying this.  What they are objecting to is that a builder should ONLY build for high end users which is basically what Gadget's message is.

As for computers, you are right that you can buy a pretty good machine now days for a lot less.  However you are assuming that $150 is nothing to worry about.  That if you can come up with $400 you can come up with $550.  I think you need to reevaluate that.  I'm glad $150 is nothing to you, but it could be a weeks groceries to some people, or shoes for their kids.  People have RL priorities they rightly put ahead of SL ones.  You also assume that people are buying a machine just for SL.  I guess you can't conceive of a family that can only afford one computer and that computer is primarily for their kids to use for education but is used by the parents when the kids aren't using it for inexpensive entertainment in SL They can take 10 bucks and go to a movie and be entrained for a couple hours, or take that same money and buy cool things, maybe even in your shop, or pay tier for a month that provides them with hours of entertainment a week. Sometimes machines break down and have to replaced immediately for the kids sake and the parents must buy what their budget and priorities can afford.

Lastly the point Gadget made is not valid.  I quote his main contention :

It almost makes me wish SL disabled building unless you have your graphics settings at least set to high...

This coupled with past posts he's made  that basically say that if you don't have a high end machine that you shouldn't be in SL, which
are familiar to many who responded to this thread,
interprets as: You shouldn't be allowed to build unless you own a machine that can run graphics at high and if you can't afford one too bad.  The elitism of his point and his overall rude and obnoxious way of dealing with that builder is what people are responding to.  And that is entirely on topic.  If his point was just to be sure that your builds look good in all settings he could have said that without all the back story elitism and gloating.

 

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Back to the OP issue for a moment. As a merchant with a six sim store, I actually like feedback from customers. I've made improvements based on customer comments. I now go around the store turning off lights to make the "Ultra" viewer experience better for customers. I know customers can be pretty rude sometimes, but I treat it like a business, not a hobby. I would never throw a customer out of the store for a complaint like that.... unless they were naked :)

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Gadget Portal wrote:

So, I'm decorating my parcel a bit, and someone I know decided they wanted to show me a store.

When I got there, everything was a complete white-out. Almost everything was fullbright, and about half the stuff were light sources set to max. Rugs, walls, columns, pillows, some curtains... Even a length of fence was a maxed out light source.

On top of that, the creator had rezzed out invisible prims and made them into light sources, too.

The place looked terrible, so my immediate reaction was "Wow, this stuff is all freebie, right?" Which... The creator overheard and got upset. When I took a picture and shared it, I was immediately told that something was wrong with my computer. When I included my graphics settings and had metadata showing lights to show a picture of that, I was ejected.

So why do people build on lowest possible settings, then refuse to see what their terribad builds
actually
look like on decent settings (in my case, Ultra+)?

It almost makes me wish SL disabled building unless you have your graphics settings at least set to high...

LOL Well, if you buy me a computer capable of running anything but "Low" .. I'll happily start building in only a better display mode. Unfortunately my old craptop won't let me choose anything better than "Low". I've tried .. but was rewarded for my effort with a BSOD. I had to reboot and reset to Low again just so I could log in again. LOL

Yeah, it would be nice but .. I'm afraid reality keeps me from running out and buying something with more muscle. I do however have my RL kids (who happen to have computers capable of Ultra+ or at least High) take screenshots of stuff and send them to me.

Oh .. if only I could see clouds again .. I would be SO happy. *sigh*

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Irreguardless of how Gadget presented or handled the situation, it does make sense to check other settings, besides the lowest. It would be extremely bad advice to only view your product with low graphic settings. A creator that makes items only for low-end computers, is guaranteed to sell less and make less money. Why? This should be obvious, but a person with a low end computer is going to have much less cash to spend than some1 with a high-end computer. Now, of course, there are exceptions for every rule, but on average, this will be true.

*warning, wall of text follows*

I have to take issue with that on so many levels.

Now, if we knew the various demographics of the users of sl and they fit your assumptions I'd agree with you but as a first point, kids may have a gaming box but have no cash.  The rest would vary across the spectrum from no decent hardware and no cash through to decent hardware and lots of disposable income.  Assuming that the general trend in gaming is followed in sl, it's young men and middle aged women make the majority (with what used to be a larger dollop than usual of people who are socially isolated to varying degrees because of location or disabilities) - with varying income levels.

I came in here in 2006 and the hardest thing my pc and laptop had to do was run ms project.  Even now, if you remove all the various apps I need for sl, I don't need anything more than being able to check emails, look at the occasional youtube vid and run the MS office suite.  Which is why it took a while earlier this year for me to convince myself again that I needed to spend an extra thousand pounds more for a decent pc that would run sl, photoshop et al, despite the fact I made a reasonable income from here and its a business expense.  Now that extra grand could have gone into my pocket and been spent on something nice rather than on a pc that is only used to its fullest potential perhaps once a week for an hour or so when I do sl related stuff.  If I didn't make income in here I would have given up sl before wasting that kind of money on it. SL for casual users who have other, non pc based entertainment options, it is not worth upgrading to a higher spec pc.

And like a lot of people in here (I suspect) the amount of disposable income a person has, has nothing to do with whether they spend or not.  I'm sure some people see any money spent as the equivalent of buying a cup of coffee (i.e. you have nothing to show for it) at the other end there are others who still mutter about paying money for something that's not real or they don't own.  Certainly in the last few years I've met more and more people who spend only the bare minimum to outfit their av - they spend on nothing else and their hardware varies.  I'd say it's more about how much value gives them in these current economic times and for a lot of people the answer is "certainly not enough to spend stupid money on sl specific hardware, just so sl looks better and then have to spend money ingame".

With creators, it does really depend on which type of creator you are talking about.  An animator may be able to get away with quavimator (which still ran well on my hacked xp box up until I replaced it), a scripter doesn't need anything more than to be able to run an lsl editor, search google and run the client.  If you're someone who uses pre-made components and just puts it together and textures it may or may not be such a big deal and really only become necessary if you make clothing or accessories.

So, I'd say your generalisation doesn't really wash. 

and one last thing, I've just replaced my laptop - which is primarily business - and yet again decided I'd go for something that will allow sl to burn the vid card out again.  After buying something reasonably specced (certainly more than if it were just a pure business laptop) I found it is only so, so running it.  I probably spent double what I need to just to run sl when I'm working away from home and it's still not fantastic. 

I'd say the issue is not so much the demographics as the perceived value sl gives which would make people want to spend money.  SL has lost a lot of the goodwill from users because it's sub-standard and with concurrency declining, I can give you lots better reasons why people don't spend than your unsubstantiated claim that only poor people run rubbish hardware and don't spend.

/wall of text

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"and one last thing, I've just replaced my laptop - which is primarily business - and yet again decided I'd go for something that will allow sl to burn the vid card out again. After buying something reasonably specced (certainly more than if it were just a pure business laptop) I found it is only so, so running it. I probably spent double what I need to just to run sl when I'm working away from home and it's still not fantastic."

 

Exactly. 

Even on a "gamer's" laptop (which is getting close to fried, for some reason) can't make it to a welcome hub to find out "who" is arriving any more, but I do catch comments on twitter, and watch the tech forum, and people are trying to get in, and get going on a laptop.  For some, it takes a few days to get everything tweaked, and for current users it will take a new laptop to continue.

Let's make a guess.  I guess that 5% of those with difficulties made it into the forum to ask, and that 5% of those that made it that far, will spend the extra effort and money to stay.   Of that remaining group, 95% will fry their laptop within 6 months to a year.  How 'bout that math? 

 

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