greek Wingtips Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 As a DJ I pride myself to try and be professional in SL as I do In RL, but am sadden that more and more clubs are using bots and 2nds av's to build numbers,something needs to be done but what I not sure. whats your views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I don't hesitate when I see bots inflating numbers in venues, especially if it's getting them up to the top of the search lists under false pretences. Submit an AR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 It's not only clubs. It is Vendors also. I noticed a skin store the other day had over 129,000 traffic. Bots all over the place.. Sad it is out of control again as usual.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucinda Bulloch Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 It is called adapt to survive, they need them for the malls, but the mall owners will go by sales, as bots drive people away, example I went to phils store and only saw sex bots there to try out beds, so after throwing up in the sick bag which he didn't provide I tped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Lucinda Bulloch wrote: It is called adapt to survive, they need them for the malls, but the mall owners will go by sales, as bots drive people away, example I went to phils store and only saw sex bots there to try out beds, so after throwing up in the sick bag which he didn't provide I tped out. That did make me chortle :matte-motes-big-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucinda Bulloch Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Did it, I still wonder about you, who are you really, forgive me but most here have been told to hate me, so why are you different, is it the good cop, bad cop stuff. PS those brain damaged inbreeds are but children to me, so don't take their advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Good cop, bad cop - no. It was something you said in the beta group chat once, a long time ago. First impression I got of you was good. You do not have a sheep mentality and are always willing to put yourself out on a limb if you have something on your mind you want to share. I don't think "most here have been told to hate" you; but for sure all of us have our fans and haters, and everything seems magnified at times in the enclosed space of these forums. I dance to no one's tune but my own, no one pulls my strings, no one tells me who to love or hate, and if I seem to want to give you a little sugar, just accept it and use it to douse out some of the acid that others may drip onto you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamari Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Marigold Devin wrote: I don't hesitate when I see bots inflating numbers in venues, especially if it's getting them up to the top of the search lists under false pretences. Submit an AR. So how do you tell the difference between a bot and a registered scripted agent, if some one is using a registered scripted agent and it's effecting search placement then you need to file a jira not an AR. How to tell the difference is a good question, I just visited a very advance greeter bot/scripted agent that I know of and other then it's profile stating it's a bot there's no way to tell if it's registered. I even just tried changing my scripted agent status for a few minutes to see if any thing in my profile showed it, and could find nothing. So it may be hard or imposable on an individual avatar basis to spot a registered scripted agent, but bot farms are easy to spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 the bots are coming back bc linden are pimping sims with traffic counts on the viewer 3 startup page: Whats Hot Now seems some sim owners are managing their bots so that their venues stay on the 25 avatar limit. which seems to be the cut off to get on the Whats Hot Now listings not all sim owners are doing this of course, many are on there legitmately. but when a venue consistently shows on the list day in day out hour after hour with a traffic count of 20-25 then yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Calamari wrote: Marigold Devin wrote: I don't hesitate when I see bots inflating numbers in venues, especially if it's getting them up to the top of the search lists under false pretences. Submit an AR. So how do you tell the difference between a bot and a registered scripted agent, if some one is using a registered scripted agent and it's effecting search placement then you need to file a jira not an AR. How to tell the difference is a good question, I just visited a very advance greeter bot/scripted agent that I know of and other then it's profile stating it's a bot there's no way to tell if it's registered. I even just tried changing my scripted agent status for a few minutes to see if any thing in my profile showed it, and could find nothing. So it may be hard or imposable on an individual avatar basis to spot a registered scripted agent, but bot farms are easy to spot. thats a good question because thats all i've heard as far as anyone actually being able to have proof that someone was a bot.. i mean there are lots of clues..but with all these bot hunters and stuff out there making mistakes about who is a bot and people selling stuff on the market that say they are anti botting tools that are not 100% and use guessing as well... i'm kind of curious if there is actually somethig out there that does work.. a lot of these bot hunter systems would look at me and my husband as a bot because we use the same ip.. other than being a linden i wonder if there is a sure way to tell without really just guessing from experience.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 16 wrote: the bots are coming back bc linden are pimping sims with traffic counts on the viewer 3 startup page: Whats Hot Now seems some sim owners are managing their bots so that their venues stay on the 25 avatar limit. which seems to be the cut off to get on the Whats Hot Now listings Traffic updates around midnight. Thats when the script runs. When it tagets the region around midnight to 2 Am it sees a low number of residents because its early. . If you notice the count at that time for all those regions it is pretty accurate for that time. The traffic only updates once for search and that number will be the same all day till the script runs again at midnight. Its not a conspiracy. LOL do you think it is in their best intrest to tell everyone to leave the sim for a while to keep a low count? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 sorry my bad. is not traffic traffic like the old way is how many avatars are on the sim right now this minute that gets shown on the Whats Hot Now eta: my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Nice back stab at Phil. BTW, ever hear of scripted agents, they don't count for traffic. I know it's not a celestial body about to collide with earth, but BIG news nonetheless... Edit: I forgot a letter, must be a conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Lucinda Bulloch wrote: It is called adapt to survive, they need them for the malls, but the mall owners will go by sales, as bots drive people away, example I went to phils store and only saw sex bots there to try out beds, so after throwing up in the sick bag which he didn't provide I tped out. That's a pretty low jab at another creator, actually.(and as a personal aside, it doesn't speak well for you, no, that's not me conforming to some "everyone is told to hate you" mentality, lol, I rarely hate anyone, I'm just not keen on underhanded moves like that) Those kind of "bots" are actually agents, and serve a purpose that has nothing at all to do with traffic. In fact, I'm pretty certain they don't even register in the traffic counts-at least most of them anyway. You can register bots with sl. I used to have a couple of registered bots with LL back when camping was more widespread and a-ok(but they weren't for gaining traffic-registered bots don't count in traffic, they were there to answer questions, when I was offline). There are stores that use bots, or agents, of some sort for legitimate purposes. Increasing traffic, in my personal opinion, is not a legitimate purpose these days, though I know many disagree. I know there are a LOT of clubs that use bots and alts. In fact, on in particular is actually only high on the search results(and has been for a couple of years) because each staff member has at least three avs there at all times. Eh, what can you do? It's not something LL will do anything about, so I prefer to simply allow my feet to do my talking. I don't patronize those places. I used to have a friend who loved them, swore they were "super popular", :always had people", until she realized 90% of those people are actually the same couple of people. Then she was a bit bummed, lol. I told you so, didn't seem so appropriate, so I pointed her to places that don't use such tactics and now she's content again. There really isn't much you can do. You can AR til you're blue in the face, but LL won't do anything at all about it. Better off simply not patronizing, and using word of mouth. It is, after all, the absolute best advertising tool ever and flows faster than the speed of light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Lucinda Bulloch wrote: It is called adapt to survive, they need them for the malls, but the mall owners will go by sales, as bots drive people away, example I went to phils store and only saw sex bots there to try out beds, so after throwing up in the sick bag which he didn't provide I tped out. The demo bots on the sex beds are all registered as 'scripted agents' and don't count for traffic - as a quick glance at the land's traffic number would have shown you, if you'd bothered to look instead of jumping to silly conclusions. I don't mind you throwing up in my store but your idea is that bots are always cheating in some way, when even common sense says that many are not, so your idea is nonsense. In the case of my store, they can't be cheating because they aren't counting for traffic. They are there to help potential customers who might want to see the animations (so they can decide whether to buy or not) but have nobody with them. There's a male-female pair on one bed for those who don't want to use their own av, a male on another bed for those who do want to see their av with a male, and a female on a third bed. Sorry, but your attempted criticism failed on this occasion. Do try again later Note: I say "they are there" but they haven't been there for a few weeks now, but if you need to clear your stomache anytime, do let me know and I'll put them back so you can visit again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Lucinda Bulloch wrote: Did it, I still wonder about you, who are you really, forgive me but most here have been told to hate me, so why are you different, is it the good cop, bad cop stuff. PS those brain damaged inbreeds are but children to me, so don't take their advice. You wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Calamari wrote: So how do you tell the difference between a bot and a registered scripted agent, if some one is using a registered scripted agent and it's effecting search placement then you need to file a jira not an AR. How to tell the difference is a good question, I just visited a very advance greeter bot/scripted agent that I know of and other then it's profile stating it's a bot there's no way to tell if it's registered. I even just tried changing my scripted agent status for a few minutes to see if any thing in my profile showed it, and could find nothing. So it may be hard or imposable on an individual avatar basis to spot a registered scripted agent, but bot farms are easy to spot. There is no way for we users to discover whether or not an avatar is registered as a scripted agent. There is a way that can sometimes be used to discover that avatars are most likely to be registered though. If the land's traffic count doesn't appear to be in keeping with the number of avatars that are on it a lot, then some of those avatars must be scripted agents. I'll use Lucinda's example. Until recently, I had 4 bots in my store - for customer demo purposes. They were there most of every day but the traffic count wasn't all that much more than just one avatar can score in a day. So it was obvious that at least most of the bots were registered. If you hung around the store, you'd see people come and go, so you'd be able to judge that it was probable that all the bots were registered - which they were, and still are even though I haven't logged them in for a while. Other than that, there is no way for us to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy Vella Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 My views......It saddens me, and it's an old old SL story. Not sure what to do about it, apart from taking my business elsewhere (as a shop renter and occasional music-lover/tipper of good DJs and venues.) There is no point renting a store at a place that does this. So they will lose rent money if we all wise up. I don't know why it still happens..I thought things were now done differently and that traffic no longer mattered. I'm likely to be a bit naive on this. Short story and slight tangent----Recently, I did a quick fly-by tour of the leading results in search in several shopping categories (according to my phoenix viewer). All stores within the 'winning pack' did everything exactly the opposite to how customers say they prefer things according to almost every thread I've ever read about SL marketing and sales, ever. (Convoluted sentence there....sorry )They all spammed like wild bulls. They all had enormous stores, and most had very noticeable lag. They all had very similar content for sale with little diversion from each other. Few offered copy/mod. They all had large clusters of avatars gathered around lucky chairs and mania boards, but the rest of the store acreage was mostly vacant. They all had multiple chairs and boards, sometimes over a dozen of each in a row. All of this tells me that for some reason, the owners of these stores still see traffic as important, and still use it. If traffic is no longer used...why did I find them at the top, and why do they do this? Is it just me, and my viewer...but if it is, lots of us use the same one. Do I not get something? I'm not sour-grapesing by any stretch...I'm happy with doing things differently on a way smaller scale, and I get the results I like to have greek, to show there's hope and that real people are alive, I've just spent an hour at a really fun little club, with cool music, excellent dances, lovely people...and a 'tiny' group of maybe 8-10 patrons. No bots. No crappy contests, no shouting about Linden Love or gesturebating. Every person was real, and chatted in local. All tipped, as all were real and appreciated the efforts of host/owner/DJ. It was the funnest time. This place, and others like it will outshine in the long run. Real people still exist, and will naturally gather in places far from the bots over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conifer Dada Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I'm happy with the idea of one or two semi-bots at clubs - avatars placed by the owner that will occasionally respond when spoken to but spend most of their time 'botting'. They are like the old regular in the corner of a pub, sort of thing. What I'm less happy with is the use of multiple avatars by one RL to skew the results of contests. It's difficult to tell when this happens. Often unlikley people win contests, but that could be put down to tactical voting rather than cheating with alts. After all, if you're in a contest to win, there's a disincentive to vote for who you really think is the best person, as that would increase their chance of winning and reduce your own. Occasionally my identical twin sister comes along to clubs with me, but residents can draw an obvious conclusion from that, and we don't tend to enter contests anyway if we're both present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwenting Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 A lot of those bots and alts are run by visitors trying to manipulate sploders and contest boards, not by the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Muni Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 About bots for increase traffic, is this true? ( http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Guidelines-for-creating-search-listings/ta-p/803947#Section_.5.4 ): If I have zero traffic, do I drop from search results? No. This rumor is not true. The amount of traffic (that is, the number of avatars on your parcel over time) has a small effect on search ranking, but it will not cause you to drop from search results altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamari Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 16 wrote: the bots are coming back bc linden are pimping sims with traffic counts on the viewer 3 startup page: What's Hot Now seems some sim owners are managing their bots so that their venues stay on the 25 avatar limit. which seems to be the cut off to get on the Whats Hot Now listings not all sim owners are doing this of course, many are on there legitmately. but when a venue consistently shows on the list day in day out hour after hour with a traffic count of 20-25 then yeah That explains a lot why bots are being used again for traffic, this time because of the "what's hot page" To me this is worse for SL then the old bot farms hidden at a mall, at least you could still shop there. The old bot farms were an unfair business practice that get removed as it should have. But the new bots at clubs to me is bad for SL over all. One of the first things new residents do in SL is look for some thing to do, and when they end up at a club with 20 bots standing around not even dancing and not responding to the new resident trying to talk to them who has no idea what a bot even is, isn't likely to stay around in SL for to long. An empty club with an easy to see event calendar so people know when to come back is much more welcoming to a new resident then a room full of life less bots. I'm a strong supporter of the many good uses of bots, but this new club issue is bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Dilbert Dilweg wrote: 16 wrote: the bots are coming back bc linden are pimping sims with traffic counts on the viewer 3 startup page: Whats Hot Now Traffic updates around midnight. Thats when the script runs. When it tagets the region around midnight to 2 Am it sees a low number of residents because its early. . If you notice the count at that time for all those regions it is pretty accurate for that time. Why on earth would you set a 'what's hot now' script to run at the time of day when the least people are likely to be in the actually active venues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I stopped going to Second Life clubs a long time ago. Back when a certain 'IP tracker' device was a hot topic, I visited a few clubs just to see if it pinged (it always did.) The main thing that annoyed me about the obvious bots or 'scripted agents' (I really don't know which they were) was they had apparently learned their social skills from the more obnoxious guests. "Woooooo" and "howwwwl" etc. I could care less if I was actually the only avatar with a biological driver in the club, because when I did go to clubs, I was mainly going to 'dance.' Because of the above types of things I ended up just dancing at home when I felt like it (taht eventually lost its allure for me too.) What I do mind are shops or malls that use a zillion bots/scripted agents/whatever hidden from view. On the map and or in traffic it looks like a happening, busy place. You get there and it's tacky crap and devoid of shoppers. It's depressing, and time wasting. I think if a product is good enough it does not need much advertising. That includes bots. Then again, many of the 'top stores' for hair, skins, and some for clothes and hair, use those things. I guess the AR team doesn't visit those stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy Vella Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why on earth would you set a 'what's hot now' script to run at the time of day when the least people are likely to be in the actually active venues? Because LL values the opinions of us Aussies, and we get to judge what's hot, so nyaaahhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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