Verena Vuckovic Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Just downloaded the latest viewer.......and I notice something that has been there for years is missing. Friends list, in addition to allowing one to check the flag to show online status, always used to show the status of that same flag for the friend themselves.In other words, if a friend had uncheked your ability to see when they were online, you would know they had done so. The flag indicator for this no longer exists in recent viewer updates.To my mind this is 'privacy' gone nuts. It strikes me as crazy that one can be broadcasting one's own online status to 'friends' who have no intention of reciprocating.......and no longer even be aware that they are not reciprocating ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monti Messmer Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Hi, afaik that was never part of the official LL Viewer. I know this from the Phoenix Viewer or ... Now that see the true online status has become impossible all has become a big black hole. If one need to hide his online status then it´s pointless i am friend with. Set to away or busy and have a auto-reply text. But cover the online status or hide behind an alt has become very common these days. Monti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 That ability was disabled thru the server software to protect users privacy because it was being abused by another 3rd party viewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 "Now that see the true online status has become impossible all has become a big black hole" This is really not quite the same as whether one can directly see online status. If a friend has uncheked the flag, then regardless of whether one can see that they have unchecked it......one will not know their online status if they have indeed unchecked it. So being able to see the status of the checked or unchecked flag was never itself an ability to bypass online status privacy. But knowing the status of that flag DOES tell you that a friend is hiding their online status.....even if you don't know what that status is. That flag should be displayed.....because any person ought to be able to think ' Hmm...what kind of a friend is it who has their online status permanently hidden from me ?? ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 "That ability was disabled thru the server software to protect users privacy because it was being abused by another 3rd party viewer" Well.....no....it really isn't the same thing. The 3rd party software was elsewhere directly overiding the privacy of online status. That is something different. The flag I am talking about does not tell you the users online status. What the flag tells ( or told ) you is not the user status but whether the user has allowed you to see that status. The point being that the DEFALT setting for friends is that showing online status is checked. That is the flag status when a person first becomes a friend. Why, then, should a so-called friend be allowed to alter that without one knowing ? It is the lack of reciprocality in all this that I object to. I'd be happy if the friend unchecking their flag also unchecked my flag for them. What I am NOT happy with is a situation where I carry on displaying my own status OBLIVIOUS to the fact that the so-called friend has unchecked theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Verena Vuckovic wrote: That flag should be displayed.....because any person ought to be able to think ' Hmm...what kind of a friend is it who has their online status permanently hidden from me ?? ' Thats exactly the kind of drama people do not want to be involved with . hence you have no ability to conger up false thoughts. Just because a friend wants privacy doesnt make them a bad friend I can see my friends online status. If they chose to show it from my fridns list. pretty simple really I see what you are saying but no one needs to know the users settings for another user except for your own settings for another resident.... Privacy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I agree with Monti. I'm pretty sure that the ability to see if someone on your friends list was allowing you to see their online status or not was something Emerald introduced that Phoenix (and maybe Firestorm?) kept on. I'm sure I've not seen it in either the Official Viewer or most TPVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikka Luik Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 You ask " Why, then, should a so-called friend be allowed to alter that without one knowing ?" - well, because its their choice to. Very simple really. The "allowed" part is an interesting insight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 "Thats exactly the kind of drama people do not want to be involved with . hence you have no ability to conger up false thoughts I see what you are saying but no one needs to know the users settings for another user except for your own settings.... Privacy" On the contrary......one of the surest ways of knowing that it's time to boot someone from the friends list has been knowing that while you have your flag set to allow them to see your status........you can SEE that they are never doing likewise for you. I'm not talking about people who uncheck the flag for 5 minutes, but people who uncheck it and leave it that way. It's nothing to do with 'drama'.....its about establishing who one's friends really are ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Verena Vuckovic wrote: .one of the surest ways of knowing that it's time to boot someone from the friends list has been knowing that while you have your flag set to allow them to see your status........you can SEE that they are never doing likewise for you. I'm not talking about people who uncheck the flag for 5 minutes, but people who uncheck it and leave it that way. It's nothing to do with 'drama'.....its about establishing who one's friends really are ! I've never taken the view that friend == someone on my friends list, and think Niran was right on the mark when he renamed it, in his viewer, Acquaintances. A lot of confusion would, to my mind, be avoided if LL followed his example. I know why my real friends in SL are, and I don't need a viewer that checks up on them, in case they may be hiding from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Verena Vuckovic wrote: Just downloaded the latest viewer.......and I notice something that has been there for years is missing. Friends list, in addition to allowing one to check the flag to show online status, always used to show the status of that same flag for the friend themselves. Are you sure of this? I've used the LL viewer since I joined SL (but not TPVs much so I don't know what you can do using any of them), and can not recall ever having had the ability to see whether freinds allowed me to see their online status or not. - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Verena Vuckovic wrote: I'm not talking about people who uncheck the flag for 5 minutes, but people who uncheck it and leave it that way. It's nothing to do with 'drama'.....its about establishing who one's friends really are ! Yes, the scenario has played out many times.. I can see it now. I am on your friends list. I find a hot chick and want to boink around with her for a few hours. I get all involved and wrapped up in it all and totally forget to turn things back on. # days later after romping around with her, )As you say) you would determine that this was time to dump a friend.. And you don't see the drama in that? LOL Not only would it be a fasle determination. It would cause hurt feelings and then possibly a fight and ZOMGmore arguing Personally that's my own opinion but I never let that determine who my friends are.. If I remove someone from my list. It would be because of their actions towards me or just a plain idiot. It would not be for the fact they have freedom of choices and personal privacy/settings on their own game or PC. Should you be able to see if I mute you too? I personally do not agree with Phoenix and Firestorms ability to send a user a popup that I have removed them from my friends list. That's another privacy issue in it self. Why can't a user leave silently? Do they have a choice to disable that feature? heh Does it do that with LL viewer? Personally I think all that invites UN needed drama 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The ability to see whether your friends have unchecked that box was never part of the Linden Lab viewers. Only Phoenix/Firestorm. Linden Lab, a couple of months ago, decided that, to preserve their residents privacy, they would change their thrid party viewer policy and disallow that ability. Now, all third party viewers must abide by that new policy and not include that ability. As part of that policy, they also turned off the ability to show which viewer a person is using. So you can't see that information any longer either. You can hear Oz Linden about the new policy and what they turned off HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiked Anton Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 i agree monti......for a long time now i used that as a "friend confirmer"....and if a so called friend wants to hide if they are online, especially when there are the avenues you already mention such a the busy message where you can tell you friend you not feeling like being social today, or away status, i conclude that several senario's could be evident, one of those being they donet want you to know they are online., or have someone else to hide from. that being the case they are no person whom i would want to be associated with and have then de friended them. if i cannot see this? how do i know that there are friends out there? just because they hold my hand when i have a little cry?, even evil people do this, or because they hang with me sometimes?, even evil people do this..........if you cannot trust you "friends" then what kind of social media is this and can we really call that social? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 LL's take on it is that it is nobody's business what a user does with their viewer settings.. just because we are friends with someone has nothing to do with it..it's a privacy feature.. people in sl are allowed to be as private or as revealing as they want..it's nobody;'s business what they decide to do with their own private sl.. thats how LL looks at it.. and you won't know they have unchecked you..that would be an indicator and defeat the purpose of an offline setting anyways.. it just shows them as logging out..unless you can see them in some other way..like in a group or in the same room or on the mini map or something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teagan Tobias Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'm not sure I understand this thread. Are you saying you base your friendships on a check box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Verena Vuckovic wrote: So being able to see the status of the checked or unchecked flag was never itself an ability to bypass online status privacy. But knowing the status of that flag DOES tell you that a friend is hiding their online status.....even if you don't know what that status is. That flag should be displayed.....because any person ought to be able to think ' Hmm...what kind of a friend is it who has their online status permanently hidden from me ?? ' Its none of your business to know what other people do with their personal settings. It is not you right nor your business to invade into others. Snooping is never ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 "i agree monti......for a long time now i used that as a "friend confirmer"....and if a so called friend wants to hide if they are online, especially when there are the avenues you already mention such a the busy message where you can tell you friend you not feeling like being social today, or away status, i conclude that several senario's could be evident, one of those being they donet want you to know they are online., or have someone else to hide from. that being the case they are no person whom i would want to be associated with and have then de friended them. if i cannot see this? how do i know that there are friends out there? just because they hold my hand when i have a little cry?, even evil people do this, or because they hang with me sometimes?, even evil people do this..........if you cannot trust you "friends" then what kind of social media is this and can we really call that social?" I agree totally, and couldn't have put it better myself. What the hell is this person doing on one's friends list if they have unchecked the 'see online status' flag and left it that way ? The default status, which one starts with on friending someone, is that both have the flag set to allow the other to see status. Insofar as that was the basis of the start of the friendship.....why should one party be allowed to change that without the other ever knowing ? And yes, one of the uses for being able to see that flag was that one could SEE when someone had witheld their online status for a long time and could thus make an informed decision about whether they should actually be on one's friends list at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 "Its none of your business to know what other people do with their personal settings." It most certainly IS my business if that person claims to be a friend ! If they want their online status setting to be none of my business....they are free to leave my friends list any time, and don't let the door hit their ass on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Do you really think of everyone on your "Friends" list as a friend in the normal sense of that word in English? I really think LL would solve a lot of problems if they renamed it "Acquaintances" or "Contacts" or something more neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paprika Savira Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Sometimes I do shocking things like that in RL, too. Like..ignore my phone when I don't feel like answering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Vuckovic Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 One of the true absurdities of all this nonsense is the number of times I have bumped into people who, according to their status, were not online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 That must have been a pleasant surprise for you both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Innula Zenovka wrote: Do you really think of everyone on your "Friends" list as a friend in the normal sense of that word in English? I really think LL would solve a lot of problems if they renamed it "Acquaintances" or "Contacts" or something more neutral. thats what it used to be called was contacts..why they made this switch to friends is beyond me.. it leaves people confused i guess.. maybe it's a social network thing or something lol sometimes if it's not broke they just shouldn't fix it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynn Wrentling Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 It doesn't matter to me if my friends don't want me to see their online status---it's their choice and none of my business---I have better things to do in sl Geez---don't get all uppity and get a life.:matte-motes-nerdy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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