Chase01

I don't think they were a newcomer lol But a good idea nonetheless ♥

Penny what prompted you to write this? I don't see that kind of behavior too often around here.

Like @Marianne Little my goal is to get in and out as quickly as possible. Landing in a central location doesn't help me do that. The problem gets worse the larger the event is, and even more problematic when a map wasn't provided. I don't think it would either, and honestly its something that everyone should be in favor of because it would help traffic flow. The only events where I could see this not being viable would be in the case of profit sharing events like Arcade, or if an event holder charges a premium for specific plots at the event for more visibility (advertisement). In those cases, I'd even settle for an arrow to show me where the store is.

I wasn't aware that griefing was growing exponentially grid wide to the point where our best option was forcing restrictions and mandates that probably do more harm then good.

I agree Theresa. Well said ... I think its a bit presumptuous to say that if someone decides to buy "no-mod" that they don't value their money or their avatar. It really comes down to the needs of the buyer. All businesses could gain from polling customers and asking for feedback, but many rarely ever do and that is unfortunate.

Cool story? I am not sure why I had to be quoted for this lmao

Value is ultimately determined by the buyer (what fits their needs), so while I can understand why the OP would not want to purchase any products that are no-mod; I can't say I entirely agree. When it comes to structures, furniture, and decor items; I'd like, and prefer to have permissions.The lack of those permissions has in some cases stopped me from making the purchase. I could also say that in some cases I felt that the need to have those permissions did not supersede my need for the item so I did make the purchase. Do people waste money buying no mod items? That is entirely subjective.

Obviously, it isn't a matter of limited resources and I didn't need to sit down with a Linden to figure that one out. They've invested heavily into Sansar and SL is still turning a tidy profit; so clearly the money is there. What they would do given their track record is quite relevant to the solution you've come up with to defragment the clothing market. An update to the new user avatar with a more generous library of options (made by LL) to customize the avatar would be welcome. If a user wants to upgrade from the basic starter, the option is of course there from the community. Thankfully we all didn't have to wait on LL for a mesh avatar, creators did that for us.

/signed *sarcasm alert* Its so rewarding to be a blogger for some brands. Go on vacation for a week in RL and watch some of them drop you for not being at their beck and call 24/7. Yup, that sometimes happens.

@Blush Bravin I agree. There are are support groups, forums (including this one), videos and written tutorials online. Some of the unboxing videos are under 15 minutes and give a complete walkthrough of how to set up the body, and use the HUD. Outside of that, buy anything that is labeled specific for the body you purchased. No research required, just read the notation on the ad or poster. Once you have the basics down, moving between the more popular mesh bodies is relatively simple. People using the legacy avatar also needed some instruction. It wasn't as if it was fairly self explanatory either.

No Phil, Bento is the name of the technology. That tech essentially allows for more points of animation. I dug up an old video released by LL that will give you a brief overview of it. Second Life - Project Bento Update

Because the designers had nothing to go off of. To keep it simple, its like asking you to build a car without a blueprint. You have to make some guesses. With that also comes both the good and bad. The downside is having to rig clothing for a specific brand and model. The upside is that the shape of that body is unique (more variety).

This is of course all wishful thinking . As of today, I would say that I don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to create something that would be on par, or better then what is currently on the market. So to say it would become THE BODY we all would want to use eventually is a pretty big leap from where I am standing. That's really a best case scenario of a lot of scenarios.

Appliers only work for applier based clothing, not mesh clothing. Since each mesh body has a unique skeletal structure, the clothing must be rigged for each brand and or model. Without that, fitment suffers. The skeletal structure is the reason why shapes look differently on each brand of mesh body. The rigging is supposed to ensure its fitment.

Hypothetically, even if LL decided to make a strong move into this market; designers would still be forced to rig for the current bodies they support, while also ensuring comparability with the new system body. That could potentially compound the issue further. Designers are going to follow the money, and while a free body has the potential to reach a larger audience; if it isn't comparable in terms of features and quality, people will still gravitate to the aftermarket and with that, the cycle continues. It becomes yet another body to support, or not support. I think if they did another pass and tried to make a better quality avi (something that is more comparable to what is available) and give those users more LL made options, that would be sufficient to improve the new user experience without burdening designers and impeding on their business. If those users then want to customize further, they can look to community made options.

It depends on how you want to define "dying" ... SL is of course past its peak, and has been for some time now, but make no mistake, it is still a very viable commercial product and will be for many years to come. Even if LL wanted to look beyond SL, they can't simply ignore it. I'd also suspect that VR has not developed perhaps as quickly as they thought it would have, and that Sansar is still a long ways away from returning their cost to develop it. Right now SL is the hand that feeds, and you know how the rest of that should go

As others have already suggested, I think it would be great for the users, but I am not quite sure what financial repercussions this would have on LL in the long term. Even having access to the right data, I'd imagine it would be a controversial decision. Penny is right though, outside of the basic tutorial there really isn't much guidance there and value sometimes comes through knowledge. Hell, a lot of newer residents I interact with don't even know about Premium ...

I agree, a singular video isn't going to garner the attention of an entire community. What Tari and I were debating was what their impact on the community would be if they did come in numbers.

That's because you keep looking at it how it might benefit the individual user and not how it impacts the greater good of the platform. Here is an example, the people who buy gold, items, or accounts from these farmers would all see it as a benefit to them individually (because it is). In your case it might be generating traffic. However, that individual benefit comes at the cost to the users, including but not limited too; inflation, account hacking and so on. That is a fact. You keep going back to these games, do you really believe that they would just stop there? In the farming industry; generating clean money (as they call it) from farming is the most expensive means of obtaining revenue. The cheapest is from account hacking. So the games would probably be the most expensive method of generating revenue for those companies. Item depreciation can also occur. In MMO's, the farmers use item duping; in SL we have copybots. If they copybotted items to resell on the MP, that can then cause items to loose value as well (quantity and item dependent). I'd suspect the gacha market in particular would be highly susceptible for a number of reasons. As an individual user, I am then effected by how much return I make for the items I want to re-sell. Values in the market do fluctuate naturally, and that isn't a bad thing. It is adding that unnatural element to the equation that things start going bad. The farmers operate with hundreds of thousands of accounts, or more (however many accounts as necessary). With that said, there are more similarities then you think there are. My beef isn't with people coming here and wanting to help themselves financially, but who would want to invite the farming community in with open arms when all those other things come with them. No thanks!

For the purposes of this discussion Tari, I was thinking about it. As everyone else here did; including you. So stop preaching your "holier than thou." Did you not read my posts. I wouldn't welcome the farming community in because of the fraud, scam, abuse, and spam that follows them. We are not talking about everyday users; we're talking about professional farmers. Enjoy your bots. Here is an older GDC presentation on Gold Farming, its effect and the things they've done in those platforms. Not everything directly translates, but many things have a similar equivalent here. https://www.slideshare.net/EnMasseEnt/developers-vs-cybercriminals-protecting-your-mmo-from-online-crime-3589535

Maybe that's true to an extent, but it isn't really the fact that people don't give them much credit, its that the work they do impacts their experience. The comments made about the work itself are really a bi-product of that. The business is profitable because they operate what is essentially a digital sweatshop. Developers know that the farmers impact their communities, not only in terms of inflation, but account hacking (cleaning) and fraud (the dirty side of that business). Those are things common in the markets that the farmers operate in, and quite frankly I'd hate to see happen to a larger extent here. Those same farmers cost developers a lot of money ... Tari, I don't mean to be rude but I don't sit around judging what people should deem as valuable, or their value to the platform. This is a discussion on economy, not people's rights. Of course a land owner has the right to decide if handing out free money from playing games on their land is valuable to them (knock yourself out). Who was even questioning that? In your wall of text, I have yet to see a point over how this would stimulate the economy.

No, not everyone has to come here out of humanitarian reasons to benefit the platform. What I meant by that was their sole purpose in coming here was simply to improve their financial situation without adding any value to the platform. In other words welcoming them with the idea there they are here just to collect ... they aren't interested in doing many of the things that a regular sl user might; buying or renting land, purchase thing, interacting with others etc.

As a player of one of those MMO's you can see the impact the farmers have on items, currency and your gameplay experience. Outside of them coming to SL for humanitarian reasons, I can't see how this would benefit our economy, or improve the experience for SL users.

Hailee, I agree with you. There are a lot of customers unwilling to admit their own fault. I definitely agree that the general attitude of customers can also vary widely between brands. Over the years I have managed a lot of retail establishments at various levels; and even within the same catagory (and sometimes similar price point) the types of complaints and the guests general attitudes varied quite a bit. I was always willing to help someone in need; it was those that were lying or trying to abuse a policy that frustrated me the most and one story comes to mind in particular. At least as the business owner in these situations here; we have the power to do what we feel is appropriate.