Merchants: Stop Spamming

[Paul Hexem]

For the love of god, stop spamming us with your stupid newsletters just because we went into your store or bought one thing at some time in the past.

And if you must have a newsletter, provide an obvious way to opt out.

I'd never send people any of this junk just because they bought one thing from me. If people want information, they'll join my group or click a subscriber.

All you're going to do is make us mute you, or AR you if it's a popup that can't be muted.

[iCade]

I agree.

I have started to do hunts and now I get spam.
As a costumer...I *will* landmark stores I came across that tickled my fancy. I have landmarked a few wonderful stores I came across just today on my current hunt.
I happily bought things from those stores because I loved them! No spam needed. At all. Just quality products!

Do I like every store I came across? NO.
Do I want random spam? NO.
Do I want the choice of getting advertisments? HELL YES.

Those stores who automatically put me on a list to advertise to me in any way shape 'o form will end up muted and you can have the best products EVER, if you spam me, I won't look at your store EVER again.

[Mickey Vandeverre]

oh, don't you worry Gadget.  A few here in forum have been a tad difficult in "communication", so I took some precautions, that might be considered "mute" as well.

Works both ways, you know

eta: cleaned up phrasing, so as not to go to time-out corner again

[Irritums]

Does complaining like a bitter house make a difference?  Or are you just whining to be whining? Please let me know.

Thanks!

[Ethen Pow]

That sucks, I am a sim owner, and just making a notice in my own community group about land open makes me uneasy. I hate it when shop owners force you into newletters or such, its annoying.

[Princess Verwood]

I'm completely with you there Gadget. That annoys me to no end. I usually just put them on ignore. The one's I've had experience with there is never an option (or a clear one) to opt out besides muting or IMing the owner and asking for removal. But the customer shouldn't have to contact the owner. I really wish store owners who use it would really think about the fact that they're more times than not pushing away customers with that type of marketing.

[Czari Zenovka]

I agree with you 100%, Gadget!  A merchant who does that to me gets put on my "never buy from again list."

[Paul Hexem]

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iCade wrote:

I agree.

I have started to do hunts and now I get spam.

As a costumer...I *will* landmark stores I came across that tickled my fancy. I have landmarked a few wonderful stores I came across just today on my current hunt.

I happily bought things from those stores because I loved them! No spam needed. At all. Just quality products!

Do I like every store I came across? NO.

Do I want random spam? NO.

Do I want the choice of getting advertisments? HELL YES.

Those stores who automatically put me on a list to advertise to me in any way shape 'o form will end up muted and you can have the best products EVER, if you spam me, I won't look at your store EVER again.

---

Yeah, exactly. That's what landmarks, subscribers, and groups are for. All options the customer can choose.

 

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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

oh, don't you worry Gadget.  A few here in forum have been a tad difficult in "communication", so I took some precautions, that might be considered "mute" as well.

Works both ways, you know

eta: cleaned up phrasing, so as not to go to time-out corner again

---

Wait, hang on, give me a minute to cry over being banned from a place I've never been to, and muted by someone with a grudge over something I don't even remember. And yes, I saw your original post. I've never been given a time-out. If you have, that tells me the problem here is you and not me.

 

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Irritums wrote:

Does complaining like a bitter house make a difference?  Or are you just whining to be whining? Please let me know.

Thanks!

---

See a problem and ignore it? It'll never go away. See a problem and comment? Someone might do something about it.

Or do you like bending over and taking it without a word to anyone, when someone does something you don't like? Please let me know.

[Mickey Vandeverre]

of course, you would not remember, because that is your everyday communication style.  I prefer not to have people in the store who might be "communicating" that way with others who are having fun.

sort of same deal as yours, except that it required about maybe two minutes, and this is your umpteenth thread on this, as well as other "issues"....which requires a ton of minutes.

For businesses.....I would suggest using whatever marketing works for you.  Very simple.  The follow up message that I sent from the store for years, was highly effective.  Two people became unglued.  But I imagine that they become unglued about something once a day.

Someone will say "yeah, but what about all those people that you pissed off and never said a word to you"

they are not my market. 

[Paul Hexem]

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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

of course, you would not remember, because that is your everyday communication style.  I prefer not to have people in the store who might be "communicating" that way with others who are having fun.

sort of same deal as yours, except that it required about maybe two minutes, and this is your umpteenth thread on this, as well as other "issues"....which requires a ton of minutes.

For businesses.....I would suggest using whatever marketing works for you.  Very simple.  The follow up message that I sent from the store for years, was highly effective.  Two people became unglued.  But I imagine that they become unglued about something once a day.

Someone will say "yeah, but what about all those people that you pissed off and never said a word to you"

they are not my market. 

---

I didn't say "followup message". I said spam. There is a huge difference. A single followup message of some kind, particularly if it's personalized, is a good thing.

When you're sending notecards or messages or popups every week to someone that only passed through your store? That's annoying.

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

Good Lord! It really is impossible to please everyone. 

There are basically 3 types of systems outside of the normal SL group structure.

1. Hippo Group structure. This is an opt in basis which you have to click to opt in. But by going to the Hippo web site you can opt out as well by yourself. If you do not know how to do it a simple IM to most owners will do the trick.
2. You opt in to a group that is outside of SL structure. Artizan and others have such groups. And yes most of the time you need to drop a NC or IM the owner of the group to opt out. And any merchant will gladly do it for you within a normal period of 24-48 hours. 
3. The Smartbots system which puts you in SL groups where you can remove yourself at anytime because it is the SL Group.

So if you feel the messages from these groups are "spam" why did you opt-in? And if you did opt-in and want out any merchant I know will happily take you out of the group. 

This is not spam. This is the way people do business in SL. It is the way to keep in contact with customers. You do not want to be a customer, that is cool. Just ask to be removed in a non SL group or remove yourself from the SL group. What is the big deal here? No one forces you to opt in. 

I run both types of groups SL and non-SL. I have over 7k in people together in both groups. If someone wants out, I take them out. If they want of the SL group they do it themselves. I have many customers, who join the SL group get the 10% discount on clothing that is given them because of the tag then leave the group and go through that process everytime they shop. 

I have others who opt-in to the non SL group and ask to be removed. I do that as fast as possible. But to complain this is "spam" when indeed you opted-in to the group is a bit over the top. 

The only possiblity of calling it spam is when you were not asked to join. But if you were asked to join and did so, then dont call it spam. Don't like it .. leave the group. Simple. 

[Luc Starsider]

You forgot one! The one the OP is talking about if I understand correctly. The one where you're added to some mailing list - NOT SL group - simply since you bought something from a store. In a couple of cases, I've been added to mailing lists for stores *I haven't even been in*!!! but simply walked past!!! In some cases, the storeowner don't even have an easy way to unsubscribe.

Naturally, I agree with the OP 100%!

- Luc -

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

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Luc Starsider wrote:

You forgot one! The one the OP is talking about if I understand correctly.

The one where you're added to some mailing list - NOT SL group - simply since you bought something from a store.

In a couple of cases, I've been added to mailing lists for stores *I haven't even been in*!!! but simply walked past!!! In some cases, the storeowner don't even have an easy way to unsubscribe.

---

Yes ... this one! 

My buying from your store does not constitute agreeing to get your daily announcement of your daily special (you know who you were).

And if you are annoyed that I file an AR for each unsolicited advertising IM or notecard ad you plonk into my inventory ... well, then figure out how to make your mailing list opt-in with confirmation.

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

if you read what i wrote....the last paragraph

"The only possiblity of calling it spam is when you were not asked to join."

That is spam I agree, if that was what the OP was talking about. But any other case is simply not spam.

[Deja Letov]

In my own store I have a kiosk that you have to touch to start receiving, and you can stop recieving any time by touching it again. But I have been on the receiving end of a subscription of some sort that I am positive I never signed up for, mainly because I've never been to their store but did buy something from them on the Marketplace. It's highly annoying, only because of the number of notices I get on a daily basis from all the hunts I am in, groups, subscriptions that I did sign up for, etc. But...I don't complain too loudly when it happens, I just mute the object sending me notices. Do I shop from them again? Probably, I don't really pay attention to my "mute" list, I just want the notices to stop, it doesn't mean I don't like their product.

[Sera Lok]

What annoys me mostly is if I buy an item from Marketplace or inworld, and I am added to a mailing list without being asked.  This constitutes spam to me, I don't care whether I bought something or not. 

However, what annoys me MORE is when I tp into a store and I get 1-10 popups asking me to join a group (or groups, in some cases), giving me a landmark (sometimes trying to give 5 landmarks to all their stores ugh!), giving me free items (yeah, i don't like that either) - pretty much ANY popup that I get upon entering a store annoys me. If I want a landmark, I'll get it. If I like your stuff that much, I'll join a group/mailing list.  I get SO tired of clicking Ignore on multiple popups just because I went to a store.  I don't know yet if I like or want your things, so leave me alone!  I know there are some systems that will wait until you're in a store for a little bit or are less pushy than other methods, but personally I refuse to use any of them. My mailing list subscriber is right at the entrance to my store and at all my satellites, and in boxed items I include a landmark and a little note about my mailing list. This works for me and I think most customers do appreciate the fact that I don't force them to close popups or unsub from lists they didn't subscribe to in the first place.

I totally agree that just because you buy something, inworld or on marketplace, does not give the merchant a good enough reason to add you to a mailing list without permission.  Luckily this doesn't happen to me a whole lot.  But the popups on store entry happen to me a lot. I guess that's why they are so much more annoying... it happens SO much!

That being said... everyone has their preferences.. And that's why some will choose to not shop at that store or mute the owner, and some will not... some will like free gifts or landmarks thrown at them, others will not. 

[Paul Hexem]

Yes I'm talking about the ones that spam you without any opt in. You'd have to be an idiot.to sign up for a mailing list then complain about getting spam.

As far as pop-up, I can handle those. I just rapid click ignore. What's annoying was the fad for a while to put something in there asking if you're a copybot, then getting booted because you ignored it with the others.

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

 

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Yes I'm talking about the ones that spam you without any opt in.

You'd have to be an idiot.to sign up for a mailing list then complain about getting spam.

As far as pop-up, I can handle those. I just rapid click ignore. What's annoying was the fad for a while to put something in there asking if you're a copybot, then getting booted because you ignored it with the others.

---

(Bold and  Italics above are mine)

Actually to be honest, a lot of people do just what you said Gadget. Does not bother me. They opt in then send me an IM or NC to opt out. What annoys me is the word "spam". Because some people opt-in and then write "Why am I getting this spam?" yadda yadda yadda

So I save every single date and time of the opt in's. Just in case someone does not remember. 

Any good merchant will certainly take any person off a list that asks to do so in a fairly swift manner. Some people though have a way of approaching merchants with "threats". So I say AR away or file your complaint. And I laugh and shrug. Ask nicely it gets you the exact same result as demanding or threatening. And what is worse is that most of the merchants can prove the people opted in to begin with. 

Spam is when you do not opt-in. Spam is when you have no clue what is coming at you and why. Opting-in and forgetting is fine. Just ask nicely to opt-out. Finished and done. And everyone walks away happy and satisfied. 

[Zanara Zenovka]

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Random Sixpence wrote:

1. You opt in to a group that is outside of SL structure. Artizan and others have such groups. And yes most of the time you need to drop a NC or IM the owner of the group to opt out. And any merchant will gladly do it for you within a normal period of 24-48 hours. 

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Actually, just to clarify, the ArtiZan system has unsubscribe and subscribe buttons, but you can also just contact the owner since they have manual editing rights.

And yeah - blanket mailings to every name you can find aren't a particularly good strategy, since the annoyance factor and AR potential tends to outweigh any sales/goodwill generated.

[Michi Lumin]

YMMV, but I try to keep our announcements to our opt-in announcements group.  I've run a business here for a long time. (check that - really, a very long time.)  To date I've got about 39,000 past customers. Of those, about 1,000 have opted in to our updates and announcements group. This shows me that 'spam and announcements' simply isn't the way most people want to function. When they're looking for something, most folks will search on the marketplace for it specifically. If they like your products in particular, they'll sign up for annoumcements if you offer it. There's no need for you to do it for them.

Anything but 'opt-in' is shady.  Anything else actually drives customers away from your store.  If they didn't ask for the newsletter, you shouldn't be sending it to them. Historically, SL's culture is not one that likes to be "advertised at". I'd bet that opt-out lists cause every business that uses them to shed more possible sales than they gain.

I have several 'newsletters' I get now, and I don't really have the time to track down where they're coming from. They'll likely not stop coming until these shops close down. I sure won't buy from them again though, on the chance that somehow that will "re-up" my "opt-out" situation with them.

So it goes: as is email, is Second Life. And as far as I know, nobody enjoys UCE in their inbox.

Treat your customers with respect and they'll remain loyal.

 

 

[Brayla Ravenhurst]

Amen!!!

 

I report people who do this.  It's just as annoying as email spam.

[Medhue Simoni]

Yeah, customer lists can be dangerous in some people's hands. I have lists of every person that bought a certain product, but those lists are strictly for updates.

Here's a something I been contemplating, let's see what you all think of this situation. I sell a combat system. Many people use it in different ways. Some people hold events, while other have championships and belts. I thought of sending out notices to all purchasers of my Kickboxing HUD everytime some1 tells me about their event using that HUD. So, I'd only send out the message when the event starts. I'd start a new list for this and remove people that want off. It is worth it, or is it spam? I'd tell people in the instructions about the messages too. Maybe, some kind of opt in button, in the menu would be better.

 

[Luc Starsider]

I don't know the specifics of your customers of the particular product, but I still think that just because they bought something does not mean they want to be sent all sorts of information. They didn't sign up for it simply by buying the item. That's how I feel about it.

However. Perhaps a one-time message would be OK to inform them that you have set up a group or an opt-in message list for the purpose you describe, IF you also inform them that the message is a one-time thing. The opt-in option in the products menu is a much better idea though.

- Luc -

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

There is a real simple way around this. Artizan has a product, when you box an item, you put in a script with a config card. When the customer opens the box, it asks 1 time and 1 time only (script self-deletes once the box is rezzed) if the customer wants to join X group. Their is even a hook in for Smartbots so if they do join the group it is your SL group. The script self deletes so it is not spam, and the text of the message to the client is what you put in the config card. Works well. And gives the customer the chance to join. They do not want to join, they click Decline the script deletes anyways, and that is that.

[Ela Talaj]

Spam, schmam... It's just a simple matter at what point medicine becomes poison, which is up to an individual merchant to figure out.

I send one or two messages a month to my mailing list which is rather large but includes only those who bought something either in-world or in the marketplace. I don't include those who just visited the store or touched the vendors for info (though I could've because I have all this information). Anyways I don't consider it spam. My feeling is that whoever bought a product might be interested in new releases and apparently a reasonable percentage does, judging by repeat sales.

It takes one click to discard a message so if someone wants to spend hundred-fold that much time to get loudly upset they simply have nothing to do in the first place so could've read the newsletter as well So far I had under ten complains about "spam" and whoever complains gets removed from the list, no questions asked.